USC life in LA

College Search & Selection
41

<p>Coureur, you're flipping one of my hole cards: Stanford has serious academics but the athletics do not permeate the campus identity...except when it comes to Cal, in which case if they played tiddlywinks Stanford fans would be passionate about who should play left tiddly. After Cal, Stanford can summon some enthusiasm for playing UCLA and then it's fairly tepid and downhill from there. The #1 and #2 schools for most NCAA championships are in the Pac 10...and neither one is USC. (Stanford is #2 and I believe that they field more NCAA teams than any other university.) I have a <em>lot</em> of respect for Stanford, all the way around...academics, athletics, and the people I know who have gone there.</p>

<p>AceRock, not necessarily...in my epistemology, Michigan is pretty hopped on basketball as well as football and I <em>think</em> Notre Dame is too. Certainly football tends to be the marquee sport.</p>

<p>USCchicka, it's not impossible...I came up with two examples: Michigan and Notre Dame. The people at those schools take both their sports and their academic seriously.</p>

<p>It's funny but I have the other side of this duel with some UCLA alums who, if you listen to their complaints, want the university to be an extension of the athletic department, not vice versa. It's all a question of where the school's identity is with the students.</p>

<p>Cmaher, where in South Central? If you mean around USC, which isn't really South Central, that's already been discussed.</p>

42

<p>Btw, Chicka, it's plain silly to only suggest a school's students can form a valid opinion about its academics. If that were so, Faber College would be up there with the rest of them.</p>

43

<p>----Positives #1 and #2 are undoubtedly true...and is where the weight of the SC experience is for far too many people for whom academics is an afterthought. SC is a great school for four years of having a good time. You may and can make something of yourself academically while doing it. But you won't be working in an environment of dominated by peers doing likewise.-----</p>

<p>Academics is an afterthought? That is ridiculous. The students that come to USC are on par with those going to UCLA and Berkeley. When they arrive on the SC's campus do they suddenly lose sense of the importance of academics? I know firsthand that the students from engineering, business (especially accounting), architecture, film, and journalism take their academics VERY seriously. The only major that I know of that has a bad reputation on campus is communications; the "sorority" major. </p>

<p>You keep obsessing about this idea of an "academic environment" but it is unclear to me what makes up this environment? I go to UCLA often and the students and campus environment are almost identical to USC's. I don't see this clearly conducive "environment" that you keep mentioning. Please elaborate in detail. </p>

<p>----They have a huge endowment and they're spending prodigiously to buy facilities, faculty, and some top students. Over time this may have the effect of changing the overall campus culture...but as long as #1 and #2 are dominant, I don't think they will. I can think of two schools where a the same kind of sports/social atmosphere coexists with serious undergrad academics: Notre Dame and Michigan.----</p>

<p>And I really hope the campus culture doesn't change. The more I read your posts, the more I picture a campus full of hermits with their heads drooped down at a book. Notre Dame and Michigan have proved that you can have academic excellence and still maintain a great sport/social atmosphere and I hope USC remains that way. That is after they finish "buying" their way to "serious" academic excellence. I love your subtle jabs. </p>

<p>You know the way you portray USC's academic level versus those ranked slightly higher seems almost night and day to me. I can't imagine those students that attend top 10 universities, they must float on air and see everything in numbers.</p>

44

<p>You're wrong about a campus full of hermits, etc. </p>

<p>Some of the interesting data comes from students themselves...like you. The question I like to see answered, particularly spontaneously, is what they like most about going to the college where they are. You're the one who volunteered your Positives, which are shared by most of your peers. You will rarely find SC students volunteering comments about high levels of academics, great profs, etc. </p>

<p>And I don't rely upon any one collection of viewpoints for my assessment of USC: profs, students, alumni, employers, clients, stats, as well as reading thousands of posts by SC students over the years. </p>

<p>And I <em>don't</em> put Notre Dame and Michigan in the same class as USC.</p>

45

<p>TheDad</p>

<p>We've had this discussion many times over the last several years. You may not realize it, but you have moderated your views of USC. Getting soft in your old age?</p>

<p>Back in NoVA for a few days. Got UW to spring for a training session in DC, at the Willard no less. It's nice to be in your own home (the university wouldn't have to for a hotel), but I do like Madison.</p>

46

<p>Tsdad, welcome back home.</p>

<p>In general, I try to stay away from most USC-related discussions because I have no desire to go out of my way to p!ss in someone's pot. If people want to go there, fine. A USC vs. X, where X is a particular school I feel strongly about, may do so. And, as you've seen, I have little patience for the USC-is-in-the-ghetto line of attack.</p>

<p>But the assertion that USC is one of the top, or excellent, universities is something I find difficult to let slide by unchallenged. Again, look at the schools in CC's "Top Universities" forum...SC is a notch below them and that's in <em>spite</em> of all the strenuous efforts that Sample is making. (Btw, if I were SC, I'd worry about the selection of a new president when Sample retires...he's been very good.)</p>

<p>Howvever,
[quote]
We've had this discussion many times over the last several years. You may not realize it, but you have moderated your views of USC. Getting soft in your old age?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think I'm just providing more context to be clearer. Some seem to react if I think I USC is a school that's an academic cesspool. It's not any worse than Arizona State, U/Colorado, and bunch of other schools that I don't take very seriously overall...but has delusions of superiority. I sometimes wonder if it's a spillover from its history of relative wealthy students compared to a lot of other schools: I think SC tops the charts of any schools where I'm familiar with a lot of its alum for being materialistic snots but then I don't know Auburn, Colgate, etc.</p>

47

<p>TheDad;: What do Faber grads think of Faber Law School?</p>

48

<p>TheDad - what's the slam on Colgate? Where did that come from?!</p>

49

<p>----You're wrong about a campus full of hermits, etc.----</p>

<p>Ok then elaborate on what you mean. You speak very vaguely and honestly I think it is nothing more than unsubstantial shots arising from your personal vendetta against USC. You spoke of the "academic environment" and I said it's identical to UCLA - a school you stated was on another level - yet you never cared to respond to the questions I posed. Face it, USC has already arrived as an elite academic university. I won't be myopic in saying that USC is in the same class as Berkeley but I will definitely say it is in the same class as UCLA. </p>

<p>----Some of the interesting data comes from students themselves...like you. The question I like to see answered, particularly spontaneously, is what they like most about going to the college where they are. You're the one who volunteered your Positives, which are shared by most of your peers. You will rarely find SC students volunteering comments about high levels of academics, great profs, etc.----</p>

<p>And that is supposed to be an indication of the academic state of USC? I've seen countless people back up USC with a "balance" argument; meaning that USC is great academic school but it also offers a lot of school pride, great alumni network, and a spirited experience. When people bring up points of other schools they usually bring out the facets that are UNIQUE. Why do you think so many Bruins lash out against the Trojans by bringing up their key argument - that Westwood is a better town and that USC is in the ghetto? Do you ever hear UCLA folks talk about how their professors are so much better than USC's? I've never seen it or heard it once. Should I now see that as the bar to which I measure UCLA's academic excellence? </p>

<p>Oh and excuse me for using UCLA as an example so often... I just know the school very well; it was among my top choices.</p>

<p>----And I don't rely upon any one collection of viewpoints for my assessment of USC: profs, students, alumni, employers, clients, stats, as well as reading thousands of posts by SC students over the years.</p>

<p>And I <em>don't</em> put Notre Dame and Michigan in the same class as USC.----</p>

<p>Well your opinion is worth little considering that your objectivity is clouded by your perception of SC grads. I really love the "materialistic snob" shot in the other post. You know considering that I am still a student and that you're a father in his 40's or 50's (?), I'd expect that you would show a little more maturity and civility. There are ACTUAL students that are making the biggest decision of their lives in choosing a university. I'd only see it fair that you limit your opinion to things consisting of pith and not your backhanded comments. </p>

<p>"It's not any worse than Arizona State and Colorado".... please, you need to take a visit to USC and update your knowledge of the school. That comment is flat out ridiculous and laughable. </p>

<p>ASU:
SAT = 970-1220
26% are in top tenth </p>

<p>USC:<br>
Sat = 1250-1420
84% are in top tenth</p>

<p>Yup USC is "no worse" than Arizona St and TheDad doesn't have a personal agenda.... my eyes just rolled about 100x.</p>

50

<p>oh and here's my "spontaneous" answer:</p>

<p>I will be graduating from USC in a year and in my years I've received an internship from an USC alum, been hooked up with another very successful alum that has acted as my mentor, gone out to dinner with my classmates all paid by my professor, been to a "concentration" party headed by the department leader, have access on a daily basis to very distinguished professors that are more than willing to help me work on the details of my business, had a class get teary eyed after our professor gave us tips on how to approach life, had another professor that put in 8 hour days on SUNDAYS to help us review the coursework, had access to nearly ever top firm in the area through countless networking and social nights. </p>

<p>What's in store for my near future? I have an alum that is flying my groupmates and I out to various conventions to help us understand how an industry works particularly in trading. I am nearing my concentration in which I've heard nothing but "awesome" and "so much fun" type praises. </p>

<p>Have I had mediocre professors? Yes, some of my GE's were a bit boring and caused me to sleep through them. </p>

<p>Have I had great professors? Yes, I have had some amazing professors and expect to have even more in the next year once I get into my concentration. </p>

<p>How was my overall experience at USC? It has caused me to grow to lengths that I've never thought possible. I honestly feel like I am a step ahead of my peers and it is evidenced by my friends that have attended other colleges and majored in the same major. I don't say that out of arrogance, but that is just the truth, they will attest to that. I feel extremely privileged to be in this position and I believe that I will achieve great success in the next 5 years. </p>

<p>Lastly, for those that might think that I have received special attention.... I am a 3.2 student. I am slightly above average but nowhere near the top of my class.</p>

51

<p>i tried hard not to respond to this, i just had to...</p>

<p>yup, afterhours hit the mark with that above post. this is what 30-40k/yr will get you at SC: rather than just learning in a classroom, USC provides for an "experience" like no other, even after your college days are through. i have had 2 career mentors, and the realtioonships with these mentors has bloomed into a full network base. and all SC alum, too.</p>

<p>ucla is better if you want to learn in class. USC teaches you so much out of class. what do i like most about SC? the whole experience of being here, b/c just sports alone, or just parties alone, or just academics alone, or just career networking alone is not enough. </p>

<p>i tend to study hard. in fact, the only reason why i am on these boards so muchis b/c i am taking a couple online courses for my real estate liscence. my gpa is higher than afrterhours'. so i tend to think that i am academic. and i have met others like myself, who are bright. we like to take advantage of every waking moment, always having things to do. not just school work. we tend to have a certain balance with our life, many students here do, too. but when i was at uci, i had no such balance. pretty much most of my time was consumed with studying (quarter system does that), with little free time that i would waste b/c there was never much to do. but i worked hard to maintain an ok gpa at uci. now, if uci is more difficult than USC (which is what i was trying to get at) you would think it would be regarded as a better school? nope. then atleats uci students would get better jobs out of school? nope. more rewarding college experience, b/c its more academic? nope. uci would be ranked higher? nope. in fact, not even ucsd is ranked better than USC, in USNEWS or to most people. ucsd is very academic, those people study like that is their only function in life, real sad. i dont know if i am really getting a clear point across. i am trying to say that academics cannot provide a suitable yard stick for all schools to be measured, and under no circumstance would deifne a school. TheDad: you say dont like USNEWS rankings, i read your posts, i see why. it seems like you like ranking other schools to each other, yourself. except for hearsay (which already seems sketchy), your arguments are mostly opinion. i have yet to see some kind of factual info/evidence from you. no, knowing somebody who says something is not good enough. i think for now, lets stop comparing schools, so we wont have to worry about personal opinion. lets state the facts: yes, USC is an excellent institution. there are 19 schools on CC's Top Universities board. it seems they are the top 19 from USNEWS rankings less ivy league, hmmmmm how fascinating. it looks odd, might have to take a closer look. but the lowest rank university on that board is UNC Chapel Hill. i wonder whats next according to USNEWS? thats funny, its USC. wow.</p>

<p>i said this before: you better beleive the hype is real. dont ever forget that.</p>

<p>excuse me, tonight has been very long and intoxicating. this discussion has been very nice. but i must get back to my online homework. fight on, trojans. few are as blessed as us.</p>

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<p>jrpar, not particularly a slam at Colgate though Colgate is another kind of school that I don't care for, heavily skewed towards the preppy, affluent, and a social scene at least until now dominated by the Greek scene...all of which can play towards a campus loaded mainly with more materialist kids...but I don't know enough about Colgate to cross that final bridge. Ditto Auburn.</p>

<p>
[quote]
ucla is better if you want to learn in class.
[quote/]
</p>

<p>I'll take that. And add that I'm a big proponent of the value of informal peer interaction in education and wouldn't concede anything to USC in that regard, where a lot of peer interactions seems to be mutually smug self-congratulation.</p>

<p>Funny, but this thread came up over dinner last night with someone in the IT environment for a large aerospace company. <em>He</em> prefers grads of Loyola Marymount to those of USC, which surprised me...I had thought he was an SC kind of guy.</p>

<p>And your remarks about UCSD really kind of make my point: <em>that</em> is a school where academics have a priority. At USC they are less so and you are much happier there. Shrug. It takes all kinds. But if I were speaking with someone seeking academics as a priority, I wouldn't point them at USC.</p>

53

<p>SC grad here-I would agree with comments TheDad has made about USC. Tsdad always gives great info also.</p>

54

<p>look, im not going to argue. really. but i think i see the point i was tryiing to make last night. academics has more weight when you think about the rep. of a college, right? lest go back to that one post about how you like seeing colleges as an impresionist painting, how you like looking at the whole rather than a specific stroke, and how those strokes come together as a whole painting. or whatever. well lest think of USC as a painting. academics would be a very subtle, gentle stroke. then you add variety with the bold strokes of athletics, social life, career networking, and an intense school spirit to finish it off. into what becomes a great institute. its a pretty picture. with ucla/ucsd, it would begin and end with academics. how boring. i dont want to compare schools but i am just trying ot make a point.</p>

<p>you wont understand why i defend USC. </p>

<p>little peer interaction through education occurs as nice as you would like to think at a competitive school like ucla/ucsd. and again, knowing somebody is not good enough. i KNOW many that would rather hire SC grads over all others. but thats not an argument.</p>

<p>i chose uci over USC in highschool, b/c i thought it was better academically. what a poor choice. i feel like i wasted 2 valuable yrs in my life, and USC is the best choice i have made. i think i learned more in one semester at USC than 2 yrs at uci. i have met more academic dullards and social misfits at uci, what a great place to learn. and when i mean learn, i dont mean that ish they lecture in class. really, how many kids go to school to become tomorrows PhDs? if i wanted to i would have stayed in irvine. even at a school like ucla, you willl hear many kids talk of soical life and sports rather than what they learned in biochem lecture.</p>

55

<p>USC really sux, academically.
I am currently a freshman at USC.
I will come back to tell why, since I have 2 finals next weeks.</p>

56

<p>Thank you TheDad for ignoring the main questions in two posts now. I'm still awaiting your answers. </p>

<p>The more I read TheDad's post, the more I believe that he thinks the definition of "academic" is working scrupulously without having any fun. </p>

<p>He has this convoluted idea of what an "academic" institution should be: kids in the library studying 10 hours a day. Dare not that these same kids enjoy their youth and independence, cause then they are not "serious" students and merely see "academics" as an afterthought. </p>

<p>But don't tell TheDad that there are tons of kids that fit that description at USC because he won't believe it. Don't take him to Leavey library and show him the large number of students asleep in corners taking a break from their studies at 3-4 AM. Nope, because in his mind USC students just "rah-rah" about their football team and run around drunk all day.</p>

57

<p>"large number of students asleep in corners taking a break from their studies at 3-4 AM" is an exaggeration. if there are, then there are only a few(less than 10 ) moreover, I rarely see it full </p>

<p>Personally, I hate to study in leavy, when it gets crowded during weekend, it is really noisy. good number of ppl using cell phones and chatting. I like the engineering library much more.</p>

58

<p>"USC really sux, academically"</p>

<p>what a convincing statement. can you elaborate?</p>

59

<p>----large number of students asleep in corners taking a break from their studies at 3-4 AM" is an exaggeration. if there are, then there are only a few(less than 10 ) moreover, I rarely see it full</p>

<p>Personally, I hate to study in leavy, when it gets crowded during weekend, it is really noisy. good number of ppl using cell phones and chatting. I like the engineering library much more.---- </p>

<p>My mistake I shouldn't have said "large", I meant the large number of people in the library at 3-4 PM, SOME passed out in the corners; there are only so many benches on the side of Leavey for people to sleep on. What I was trying to touch upon was the fact that Leavey is fairly crowded at early hours of the morning. TheDad makes it seem like the library would be a ghosttown considering that USC students don't take their academics "seriously" and see it as a mere "afterthought". </p>

<p>Let me guess, you are the same guy that posted the other topic in the old forum? If you find USC to be uninspiring that's fine, not everyone enjoys the school they end up choosing.</p>

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<p>I never argued that people shouldn't go to USC if that's what they wanted. And in fact I generally ignore USC-related threads. You will note that my initial presence in this thread was actually a defense of USC against what I regard as unfair statements regarding the neighborhood.</p>

<p>It wasn't until you popped up with your [accurate] positives about USC [accurately omitting, as with the responses of most USC students] any mention of academic life that I mentioned academics. The responses of you and MTM have pretty much sustained my position and if you're having the college experience you want, then more power to you, though I as a parent would in no way consider any of my money well spent in such a pursuit. I note that LAMom, an SC alum, has stepped in to endorse my position and it would be interesting to see what auscguy says except that my interest in this thread has pretty much run its course and I see little purpose in continuing this exchange. </p>

<p>Your supposition that my view is of a place filled with academics without any fun is a ludicrous strawman position, adopted as self-justification. You don't need to justify yourself...if you've got what you want, go and enjoy. I do regard your academics with disdain but if you simply can't let go, then I for you I will make an indivdiual exception and switch to contempt.</p>