<p>Anyone who thinks USC can't change its spots in fairly short order needs to compare the NYU of 20 years ago and today. Much the same for Wash U, Emory and a few others.</p>
<p>yeah, I am the same guy from that old forum,</p>
<p>for ppl can't wait can go to my old post
<a href="http://collegeconfidential.com/discus/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://collegeconfidential.com/discus/index.html</a></p>
<p>Go to "college serach and selection" and click on "USC undergrad education is so DISAPPOINTING !!!!!!!!"</p>
<p>well well...just 5 wks into school and you already have a strong opinion. well allow me to retort. my upperdivision classes at uci had around 400 students, of which about 100 would drop. 200 is really nothing. at uci, you could NOT get the classes or schedule that you wanted, there was no chance unless you somehow dupe the prof into letting you add. i wouldnt have been able to get into my lower division econ courses without lying to the prof. at uci, it takes kids to graduate 6 yrs on average. at uci, nobody would bother seeing the prof at office hrs. b/c some profs didnt have office hrs. if they did, it would for an hour a day, once or twice a wk. my writing classes were taught by TA's, but those TAs have PhDs. theyre not really TAs. for GE courses, you really dont need the help of prof, a grad student will help you the same.</p>
<p>chheck this out, you think you had it bad?
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=1698&page=1&pp=20%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=1698&page=1&pp=20</a></p>
<p>USC has 15k students, its a large private school. you should have done your research if small class sizes were so important to you. uci has 19k, and it is far worse.</p>
<p>im very content with the profs at SC.</p>
<p>The ONLY reason I chose USC is because I can get my B.S./M.S. of my major in 5yrs, which can save me one yr of time and $. I want that M.S. so bad. </p>
<p>Or why the heck I would choose this place.</p>
<p>First of all, how much does USC charges its student for a semester just for the tuition, 15k, which is waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyhigher than that of Uci. (yeah, 200 is nothing, but usc charges 15k/semester). and you mention that lots of ppl in uci couldn't get the classes they want. same thing happen to the first yr freshman, during registration session during freshman orientation, lots of ppl couldn't get the class they want, most of GE 's are full. the registration was really hellish, and frustrating. </p>
<p>I will come back later to "elaborate."
GE final 2morrrow and math on wed</p>
<p>U$C SUX</p>
<p>BS/MS in econ? my prof from uci did that at SC.</p>
<p>yes 15k is a lot for a semester. thats avg for a private school. with the UC system, californiaa is particularly blessed. but not every state has such good and cheap education. let me tell you something, if i get even half of the scholarships i applied for next yr, it would be cheaper for me to go to USC than uci. i even got aid this yr evenn though applied 6 months after the original deadline. i didint really have a choice b/c my dad files corp. tax returns which arnt due until Oct. this was ok with USC, not so with uci. uci told me to take a hike if i didnt make the deadline, as i would see no aid. and its getting more expensive, i think next yr tution is going up 20%. </p>
<p>what i ment by uci GEs is that sometimes its near impossible to get lower division econ courses that really are GE's, upperclassmen take them so they can graduate. when the upperclassmen fill up these classes (they always get priority), the people trying to major in those subjects are assed out. since they cant take the lower division (which is a prereq for upperdivision), they cant take upperdivision. unless they add-card after quarter starts. but thsi is an inconvenience, sometimes kids dont even bother. then this goes on in upperdivision. upperdivision courses can also have up to 400 students, sometimes up to 100 drop. and its impossible to get any of the interesting GEs as a frosh or soph. sometimes even as a jr b/c they might not have enough units to be jr b/c they were assed out as freshmen. and the 5th yr seniors end up filling up these classes. let me tell you a little story of whne i was a freshmen: i entered as a bio major, but i wasnt sure if that was what i wanted to do, so during orientation i switched to undeclared. all i had to do was sign a form, it was that easy. when the quarter started, i couldnt get into the lower division econ, b/c i was considering that as a major. i couldnt get in b/c i wasnt an econ major. i had to lie to the prof and tell him i was a jr trnsfer thinking about majoring in econ. luckily he didnt check. if that were the case , i wouldnt have been able to take those classes till soph yr. if i was lucky. and i would graduate in 6 yrs instead of 4 just like everyone else. i couldnt officially change my major to econ untill i finished all prereqs at the end of freshmen yr. in order to get the classes i needed, i had several friends who were upperclassmen sign up for a course that i needed, and towards the end of the 2nd wk, i had them all drop to bump up my position on the waitlist. luckily it worked out. this is the utter bulll$hit i had to deal with my freshamn yr. mind you, this was just to get the major i wanted, not just any GE towards graduation. this continued when i was trying to achieve my minor for mamagement. i told the management prof that i was already enrolled in that class in another section and that i wanted to switch with someone. i had to find someone who was dropping. i knew a guy who couldnt start his management minor untill 4th yr. and he was also staying for 6 yrs. those are problems. registration is a breeze at USC compared to uci. you dont know hellish or fustrating untill your reg. window opens and you cant log on to the online system b/c there are too many people logging in at one time at uci. or trying to cheat the system to get approval codes from the dept. of the GEs i wanted. </p>
<p>and let me tell you about GE's at uci. GE's take a whole yr, a three class series (3 classes is one yr in the quarter system) to satisfy one category. at USC, one lcass satisfies a GE requirment. so at USC, you can finish atleats 2 a yr, if you take atleast one GE a semester. thats 2 classes. to do the same at uci (fullfilling 2 GE requirments in one yr), you need to take 6 CLASSES. and there are the same number of categories at both schools. they should have a class titled "how to graduate in 4 yrs", b/c trying to figure this system out is a class in itslef, b.c the counselers sucks. intelligent system, huh? yes sir, at uc you really do get what you pay for.</p>
<p>mind you: USC has 15k students, while uci has 19k. a 4k difference doesnt justify the difference in the problems students face. and ucla has 25k students, i wonder what they go through.</p>
<p>it is just about the GE.</p>
<p>Isn't that true that if one in UC, he/she can always fulfill GE requiremet in community college during summer?</p>
<p>And plus, USC doesn't allow anyone to take GE elsewhere but at USC</p>
<p>nope, only at the uc. they expect you to go to uci for summer school. its b/c semester units and quarter units are a pain to transfer over. </p>
<p>say you are a uci student wanting to transfer cc class in summer to get rid of a category requirment, say science category. which is 3 course series, in quarter series terms. 10 wks per quarter in a quarter sytem, 15 wks in semester. now how would a bio class at a cc in semester units (a class which isnt even in series) transfer over? and if you did it would only be one class and 2 at most, you would be no better off than going to USC. why would you have to be forced to go to summer school in the first place, anyways? it kind of defeats the purpose, as you might as well have a full and mandatory summer quarter.</p>
<p>isnt this discussion illuminating? arent you glad you didint choose uci or ucsd or ucsb or ucd? or do you wish you went to claremont mckenna or pomona or loyola marymount or harvey mudd?</p>
<p>----I never argued that people shouldn't go to USC if that's what they wanted. And in fact I generally ignore USC-related threads. You will note that my initial presence in this thread was actually a defense of USC against what I regard as unfair statements regarding the neighborhood.----</p>
<p>Oh give me a break!! Yes you never actually said, "People shouldn't go to USC" but your backhanded and subtlely condescending remarks equate to the same thing. USC is trying to reach higher academic status and draw in elite students and you say the student body sees academics as an "afterthought" and say it's "no worse than Arizona St. and Colorado". Save me the innocent tripe. </p>
<p>I even posted the stats of the incoming freshman at both schools which clearly showed your comments were false. Did you even care to reply? Nope and I don't blame you, it's hard to back up baseless claims. </p>
<p>----It wasn't until you popped up with your [accurate] positives about USC [accurately omitting, as with the responses of most USC students] any mention of academic life that I mentioned academics. The responses of you and MTM have pretty much sustained my position and if you're having the college experience you want, then more power to you, though I as a parent would in no way consider any of my money well spent in such a pursuit. I note that LAMom, an SC alum, has stepped in to endorse my position and it would be interesting to see what auscguy says except that my interest in this thread has pretty much run its course and I see little purpose in continuing this exchange.-----</p>
<p>Excuse me, but where in my post did I provoke you to call out USC as a school full of people that approach academics as an "afterthought"?! YOU included those ridiculous, false, and condescending comments. I even went on and asked how you came to those conclusions and you never even cared to answer. </p>
<p>Stop trying to play the "I'm the bigger guy" role. I've never stepped into a thread relating to another school and given my opinion on why the school is inept in anyway. You're the one with the problem here, don't try and act like the fair and "i'm just here to inform" person. You're the one that sparked this whole mess and now you're trying to play it off as nothing more than you informing and MTM and myself in desperate need of self-justification?! </p>
<p>As for "LAMom", her handle indicates that she attended USC a long time ago (if you're a 20 year old mom I apologize) and needless to say a LOT has changed since she attended - heck, a LOT has changed just in the past 5 years. </p>
<p>As for "auscguy", if he finds USC academics to be uninspiring that's fine. I just don't see how you can write off a university's academics in five weeks. </p>
<p>----Your supposition that my view is of a place filled with academics without any fun is a ludicrous strawman position, adopted as self-justification. You don't need to justify yourself...if you've got what you want, go and enjoy. I do regard your academics with disdain but if you simply can't let go, then I for you I will make an indivdiual exception and switch to contempt.----</p>
<p>Here we go again, TheDad trying to play the "Bigger Man" approach. Maybe you need to re-read my post earlier but I said the reason why I have such a problem with your posts is because there are ACTUAL students trying to decide which college to go to and your posts are nothing more than narcissistic shots at a school that you particulary dislike. They offered no substantial benefit (other than your 1st post) to high school seniors and I called you out on it, nothing more.</p>
<p>academics are never an afterthought to me. never.</p>
<p>I am currently a freshman business major at USC and I'll try to comment on the dialogue and nature of this thread. </p>
<p>First of all, Thedad is full of it. He obviously has a strong bias against USC as well as most non-LACs. I believe he has a daughter that attends a LAC and is also an opponent of business majors, characterizing business schools as vocational schools. I actually have a long history with this guy and he never seems to fail to slander this school and this major.</p>
<p>Personally, I'm quite content with the academia here at sc. The difficulty of curriculum here is definitely as challenging as you want it to be. Your experience is, like they say, what you make of it. Although you'll find many students here who tend to be relaxed about schoolwork, the presence of serious scholars is undeniable. However, there's definitely no denying the abundance of scholarly resources here. If you are motivated and make a conscious effort to take advantage of those resources, your academic experience will be nothing short of gratifying. </p>
<p>I strongly believe that a key contributor to the misconception that people have about sc stems from the exceptional social life that students enjoy. The bad impressions that many critics have often are attributed to the fact that the ridiculous amount of social opportunities simply overshadow the abundance of academic opportunities. But again, this does not mean the potential for an academically-enriching experience is not there, just that it is often difficult for students to muster enough motivation to pursue it. Is it the university's fault for providing such opportunities? Of course not. </p>
<p>Even though the campus is not situated in the best area of downtown LA, the social life, like academics, has the potential to be very good. For campus activities, the greek system here at sc is amazing. Outside the campus, the beach is 20 minutes away, the Shrine is literally across the street (I can almost see it from my dorm room), the Staples Center 1 mile north, Coliseum 2 blocks south, LA Sports Arena 3 blocks south, the Grove a 20 minute drive...
If you look past the poor neighborhood immediately surrounding the campus, the social life is excellent mainly because of our location.</p>
<p>Finally, I belive the bygone era of usc being known as the University of Second Choice is over. 20 years ago, it would've been a different story as many considered sc to be a back-up school to the likes of berkeley and ucla. Today, the reality I see is different. Based on the high school peers that I grew up with, I am confident that if money weren't a factor, most of them would've chosen to attend USC over the aforementioned schools. That being said, I don't regret choosing this school over ucla, berkeley, ucsd, and uci, as most of my friends now attending those schools have expressed jealousy about me coming here.</p>
<p>well put, indeed</p>
<p>You can take GE/breadth classes at a community college if you're from a UC.</p>
<p>I will be back.</p>
<p>I have lots more to say on how bad usc is, academically after being here for 15weeks</p>
<p>There are plenty of not-great-academic environment LAC's, too. Though I am a convert to the benefits of LAC's and think that many do very well by their academics...98 percent of USC's students would be gasping halfway through the first semester at a college like Amherst or Swarthmore, where, by the way, students really do manage to have fun too. (It's interesting to note that a very high percentage of Ivy-league faculty send their kids to LAC's, but I digress.)</p>
<p>But anyone who thinks I disdain universities is quite mistaken. What I disdain is the notion that USC is in the same league as schools like U/Chicago, Georgetown, Stanford, Rice, Johns Hopkins, etc.</p>
<p>What another parent wrote could be well applied to USC.
[quote]
It was very painful to her to realize she had chosen a place where few people cared for learning for its own sake, but most couldn't pass up a chance to pass out at the next frat party.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And it is amusing that each of the defenders of USC, smitten with pretensions of superiority...or is it descending to adequacy?, have contributed to my case against such. E.g., the following:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Although you'll find many students here who tend to be relaxed about schoolwork, the presence of serious scholars is undeniable. However, there's definitely no denying the abundance of scholarly resources here. If you are motivated and make a conscious effort to take advantage of those resources, your academic experience will be nothing short of gratifying.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There's a vast difference between presence of scholarly resources and where intensity about using same is the norm. The same "defense" could be said of CalState Bakersfield.</p>
<p>and:</p>
<p>
[quote]
I strongly believe that a key contributor to the misconception that people have about sc stems from the exceptional social life that students enjoy. The bad impressions that many critics have often are attributed to the fact that the ridiculous amount of social opportunities simply overshadow the abundance of academic opportunities.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>
[quote]
But again, this does not mean the potential for an academically-enriching experience is not there, just that it is often difficult for students to muster enough motivation to pursue it. Is it the university's fault for providing such opportunities? Of course not.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>ROFL!!!! A question of the balance of priorities, which you've answered. Yes, the "potential" is there...and in no way is exploiting that potential the dominant campus experience as it is at colleges where it's not "often difficult for students to muster enough motivation to pursue it." Hooo-wheee!!!! So speaks the proponent of USC as a first-class intellectual instititution! hoo hah hah hah hah! </p>
<p>Congratulations, you've won of my rare cut-and-paste awards. That one is going into my archives, being almost as good as the boast about SC becoming "the Stanford of the West."</p>
<p>Flop on!</p>
<p>===</p>
<p>Barrons, you're quite correct. Come back in 20 years and we can see where it stands.</p>
<p>"98 percent of USC's students would be gasping halfway through the first semester at a college like Amherst or Swarthmore..."</p>
<p>How do you know? Prove it! You cannot prove it because it was only an insult.</p>
<p>Dad, I think they are easily 10 years into the upgrades. USC is WAY better right now than NYU was when they made the move.</p>
<p>Barrons, okay...we can check back in 10. NYU is an interesting case and may or may not be comparable. As with USC, they have some departments that are well-regarded, standouts over the rest of the school. NYU was on my D's medium list and we visited during our Boston-to-NYC college search trip; she did not like the feel of the student body and did not take the tour after the info session. I had to agree with her observations <em>for her</em> but I do get the sense from other sources that they are, in fact, upgunning...but not Arrived yet. And some changes always lag others, I'll grant you.</p>
<p>Shyboy, I can't prove that if you through most of the people working in the Century City towers would suck dead fish if you made them enter a triathalon yet it is true nonetheless. The gap between the "speed of the game" between USC and Amherst/Swarthmore--including evidence taken from SC boosters in this thread--is like the difference between a Double-A team and the majors. Small classes with no place to hide, even discussion sections led by profs, an intense workload, very high standards, and a collective pride in what they're doing academically.</p>
<p>TheDad, you are wrong. I think you are stuck in the old days when USC was not among the most selective schools in the US. In fact, by sheer numbers alone, USC has more gifted students than Amherst or Swarthmore. Keep in mind that USC is much larger than those schools. Honestly, do you really think that only 2% of the students at USC are of Amherst or Swarthmore material? </p>
<p>Your intent is just to be disrespectful and no evidence can be given to back up your claims. The reason you cannot prove it is not because it is not provable but because it is a false statement.</p>