USC Vs. Columbia

Hey everybody! I want to go the premed route, and one of the biggest factors of going premed is having a great undergraduate GPA. I have been accepted to both Columbia and USC. I will not receive financial aid at either. If I go to Columbia, I’ll have to run track, meaning a lot of my time will be dedicated to that. I’m worried I won’t be able to get a good GPA while balancing all the other factors at Columbia. Is it possible? In terms of USC, I am not as worried about getting a solid GPA. My gut tells me USC seems more social and it’ll be easier having fun there, but It’s tough turning down Columbia…

What would you do?

Follow your gut and the perennial sunshine…

You can go wrong going Ivy League. Columbia is more prestigious thank SC. I am guessing that running track at Columbia would not be as demanding as running track in another major college such as USC, UCLA, etc. Generally people doing sports at these major colleges may have aspirations to go pro. Many athletes at Columbia are not at that level.

Follow your gut and the perennial sunshine…

Your thinking is a little screwed up, actually. If you’re pre-med or pre-law or pre-whatever and just have to get through undergrad (B.S. in Biology, B.A. in Political Science, etc.) then what you should really do is look at the top grad schools (in your case, medical school) and see what schools THEY recommend for undergrad. It might not be what you think. Harvard Medical School, Johns Hopkins, etc. might in fact find that they get excellent medical students and excellent future doctors from, say, Swathmore or Pomona rather than a big school like USC or Columbia.

FWIW I actually love both of those schools. I chose USC and its film school, although that’s a different ball of wax obviously. Columbia is a much more prestigious university (really behind only HPY and Oxbridge) overall but, as can often be the case, their film program is “only” top 10-15 whereas there USC is king and even within NYC, NYU has the better program. But Columbia is a great school with lots of great programs, and what I’ve always found funny, for example, is that their football team has been so notoriously bad at points (bit different from USC) that the band played the Mickey Mouse Club theme song as they took the field. That, ahem, would never happen at USC. :wink: In any event, like NYU, Columbia is a school that for my career goal (Hollywood), I gave a long look but ended up not applying there, because were I accepted, in the final analysis I wouldn’t want to go there anyways.

To return to your original question, the problem with going to a big, competitive, great university for undergrad when you’re pre-med or pre-law is that the students basically kill each other academically in the quest for the perfect grad school application. I suppose you could say the same thing about a handful of high schools around the country (Palo Alto, New Trier, etc.) as you’d just have to get through undergrad and get a good all around pre-med education and then what’ll really matter for you is where you go for med school, not undergrad. In that respect, the size of schools like USC and Columbia works to their disadvantage, because top med (grad) schools will only accept a certain number of students from each school and obviously everyone else at USC and Columbia is going to be just as bright and driven as you are. So this is where, for those of you for whom undergrad is really just a waystation, a smaller school might be a better choice.

Keep in mind of course that all of the above is negligible if you change your major. But if your goal is medical school, then you should be concerned about what undergrad institutions are going to feed you into the best medical schools, and use that as a starting point for choosing an undergrad college. Depending on your family’s finances, too, for example, you might find that the honors college/program at a local state university might provide you excellent preparation for top medical schools without as much of the drama and stress that happens for students at large, competitive elite universities.

Good luck!

Good points. On the other hand, if you need to run track in NYC, your chances of getting a high gpa are jeopardized. Be smart: if you get a high gpa from USC and high MCAT, you’ll get into a good med school. There are probably more Columbia undergrads trying to get into med school than from USC so consider the competition between the two schools. Plus, USC students are more well rounded, and if you enjoy football, then USC would be more fun. And finally, do you really want to spend four years in NYC, or would you rather go to the beach on Fridays after school and study on the sand? I recommend visiting both schools before making a decision.

I think the other point to mention, to tag along with Seattle’s point about USC students being well rounded (USC very much has a “work hard play hard” culture), is that American colleges and universities aren’t looking for students so much as they’re looking for LEADERS. As my parents told me all throughout my childhood, Harvard isn’t necessarily looking for the valedictorian. They’re looking for the captain of the football team. I have friends of mine who’ve made it into HLS and other top top top grad programs like that with GPAs as low as 3.3.

The reason is simple, and that’s that the high GPA and standardized test scores is only the first filter. Beyond that, medical schools are looking for future doctors, law schools are looking for future lawyers, etc. The friends of mine who all cracked top professional schools all had all sorts of evidence that they were intrinsically motivated, and that’s stood in sharp contrast, to, say, the people who tried to do law school in their late 20s solely as a way of punting on their careers and getting a 6 figure income. Those people will never stand a chance alongside someone with slightly lower numbers who won all sorts of national awards in debate or mock trial, volunteered at legal aid starting in high school, etc. and who had letters of recommendation from lawyers and judges who at that point had known them for several years.

The reason why I mentioned the smaller (but still excellent) schools is because you won’t have 10,000 people in your biology or political science 101 class (a common complaint from everyone I know who went to UCLA and Berkeley) and thus it’s easier for you to get good grades, learn the material in depth, and (the gold standard) participate in a research project with a professor. That’s the kind of stuff that really helps you get into top programs - yes, having the grades and standardized test numbers, but also working / volunteering at a low level in the field, learning how the profession really works, studying / collaborating with a few great professors, etc. and learning through osmosis from people who’ve been doing for decades whatever it is you want to do. One of my brothers is a doctor, for example, and he worked as a paramedic for a few years between undergrad and med school, and one reason why he had several doctors go to bat for him with admissions committees (and later with residencies) is because in the chaos of the emergency room, he could read x-rays and immediately spot a fracture and thus help save lives. In fact, as I now write this he’s been promoted to run the emergency room and paramedic relations program at the hospital where he works, putting him now in the position of being able to advocate on behalf of the kind of medical school applicants he once was.

FWIW I’ve heard good things about the grad school placements of both Santa Clara and Creighton, which, as I write this, doesn’t surprise me because they’re both Jesuit schools. Obviously they aren’t as selective or prestigious on the undergraduate level, but Jesuit schools have been operating under the whole “educating the whole person” philosophy for centuries before education bureaucrats invented the term in recent years. I also grew up outside Chicago and one of Northwestern law school’s biggest feeder schools was Wheaton College - a top Christian school in the suburbs that, like Santa Clara and Creighton, has always had a strong liberal arts focus and has never strayed from its mission of graduating competent, ethical professionals. Suffice to say, any school that focuses on providing a rigorous liberal arts education and graduating competent, ethical professionals is going to graduate armies of students who are attractive candidates for top graduate programs.

And as for the whole studying by the beach thing, well, if you do it right, you can buy a HOUSE on the beach. :wink:

Op,
U should pick USC. U r correct that the gpa will matter the most. Columbia is hyper type A, hyper hardwork and busy NY types with little grade inflation. A kid transferred from Columbia to Harvard and found Harvard much easier to get higher grades with less work. USC will definitely be hard work and competitive, but your gpa will be higher from USC than Columbia