<p>Ever since a drinking incident last fall which a mid almost died we've been having bed checks for the last few months. And there are lots of savi training so we all are stunned of this incident. Still we go on with our own lives and let this situation get handled. USNA can shove all the savi, honor and character briefs at all the inconvient times but midshipmen can never and will never be 100% perfect.</p>
<p>but cadets are? I think not.</p>
<p>That applies to service academies in general but I see you didn't pick that up.</p>
<p>I did........I am just making sure that we all understand that Service Academies in this situation will all bear the black eye. It is a very big shame.
I don't know you, I see you post in the present tense as if you are in Bancroft Hall yet your screen name says reject so I cannot really understand your status.</p>
<p>Regarding the previous posts: "I just cannot imagine the situation of a RAPE occurring in a Mid's room in Bancroft. Having lived there, it makes no sense that something like that can occur without anyone hearing something."</p>
<p>According to the Associated Press report last night:</p>
<p>"Investigators said Owens, who was not made available for comment, attacked the woman last month after entering her room in Bancroft Hall without her consent."</p>
<p>Of course the press can be wrong, speculation on the part of this board is useless, and hopefully the facts will come out in time, but I do not think that it is inconceivable that rape can happen in Bancroft Hall.</p>
<p>Hazmat---I doubt very much that any institution can "fix" a character flaw. Institutions can however minimize the risk they pose. Just because one is at a service academy is not a gurantee that they belong there. There are rules and regulations at the academies--there are honor codes, and there are the consequences of stepping out of bounds. </p>
<p>If I am not mistaken, usna-reject is a current midshipman. One's online name is seldom a reflection of who we really are...for example, I doubt you are a piece of hazardous materials. :)</p>
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I would tend to agree with you and then I think about how someone (gee who would that have been?) hacked Nicole Simpson and Mark Goldman to death outside her home and no one heard a thing....
Unfortunately violent crimes are committed every day with no witnesses.
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<p>No comparison. The Hall is full of people, and a Mid's room is in extremely close proximity to several other rooms and numerous passers-by.</p>
<p>That said, it depends upon time, location, etc.</p>
<p>What a mess....</p>
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Of course the press can be wrong, speculation on the part of this board is useless, and hopefully the facts will come out in time, but I do not think that it is inconceivable that rape can happen in Bancroft Hall.
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<p>"Inconceivable", no. "Extremely unlikely", yes.</p>
<p>If the report of this occurring in her room is true, then it REALLY gets weird.</p>
<p>I had this username 2 years ago on this site as a senior so I've come just a tad bit further than I expected. now if i can only be sat for once
I live in the backshaft. I can't even hear the mate in the main shaft when they make announcements. When they have surprise duty section musters someone has to come to my door so I can rush to get there.</p>
<p>if it happened inside bancroft hall it is very hard to believe that it was a rape because one scream would bring at least two people running to see whats going on. it was more likely unwanted touching, or i think even more likely, a consentual action that took place and then the victim got a conscience and decided to turn in owens for rape. whatever it is, it is definately bad for all service academies.</p>
<p>also, the gate guards are no longer marines but they are still enlisted navy not civilians. upperclass come back drunk alot, but usually they are just helped back to their rooms and their mattresses moved to the floor so they cannot fall out of the bed. if they are on a weekend they do not have to sign back in otherwise they have to sign taps. the cdo would probably just make sure they get back into their room safe and be done with it.</p>
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I live in the backshaft. I can't even hear the mate in the main shaft when they make announcements. When they have surprise duty section musters someone has to come to my door so I can rush to get there.
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<p>What deck are you on?</p>
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If it happened inside bancroft hall it is very hard to believe that it was a rape because one scream would bring at least two people running to see whats going on. it was more likely unwanted touching, or i think even more likely, a consentual action that took place and then the victim got a conscience and decided to turn in owens for rape. whatever it is, it is definately bad for all service academies.
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<p>Amen.</p>
<p>ETA: I cannot believe I got response 91 on this thread! LOL! :D</p>
<p>heyitsme---you are making a lot of assumptions of facts not known--</p>
<p>time of day (you assume it was at night when people would be nearby to hear)</p>
<p>you assume that she must have screamed as she was assaulted---maybe she did, then again maybe she didn't (or couldn't)--a scream is not "mandatory".</p>
<p>your comments about the victim suddenly getting a "conscience" and that it "most likely was unwanted touching" or "consentual"----is that directly out of your crystal ball? On what would you base those conclusions?</p>
<p>In addition, I see a serious problem if, as you say, " upperclass come back drunk alot" and face no consequences for it in a US Service Academy. This begs for nothing but trouble.</p>
<p>No one should be making assumptions about the case...No one knows 100% for sure what happened. Let NCIS, USNA, and a military court decide what happened.</p>
<p>shogun, I cannot agree with you more. Even the Superintendent and Commandant have repeatedly attributed a lot of conduct cases from drinking irresponsibly. Therefore, it is easy to see that a lot of things can go wrong if Mids come back drunk. However, how can one enforce this? Can it be enforced? Mids would still come back drunk. The Academy has taken a stance on being a "shipmate" and to look out for one another, consistent with Navy policy. I think that this might be a more logical approach...as in the fleet, it isn't wrong to come back to a ship drunk, provided that the alcohol was not consumed within the amount of time before assuming duty or that no innapropriate behavior occurs. If everyone were to look out for each other, there would be significantly less or even no problems at all. I think this is a better solution. "Telling" on Mids might bring up conduct action, but it won't solve the overall problem. Besides, as mentioned, most Mids that come back drunk don't do anything to harm or bother anyone, it is just a few...you don't want to take up conduct action on the ones that don't cause problems.</p>
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time of day (you assume it was at night when people would be nearby to hear)
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<p>People would be nearby to hear at almost any time of day. Additionaly, the MOD is walking around during the day.</p>
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you assume that she must have screamed as she was assaulted---maybe she did, then again maybe she didn't (or couldn't)--a scream is not "mandatory".
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<p>No scream? No struggling? Nothing?</p>
<p>Doubtful, which is why I'm still scratching my head that this supposedly ocurred in a Mid's room.</p>
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In addition, I see a serious problem if, as you say, " upperclass come back drunk alot" and face no consequences for it in a US Service Academy. This begs for nothing but trouble.
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<p>Perhaps, but it's not illegal. I saw several guys come back plastered, but never anyone with a real problem. Besides, these are supposed to be adults. If they can't handle the responsibility on their own, then holding their hand is hardly an adequate solution.</p>
<p>But hey, this is USNA, where the barbed wire on the walls is angled so as to keep the Mids IN rather than keep the bad guys OUT. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>How do we solve an alcohol problem at the academies?
Lets BEGIN by ensuring that a Naval academy midshipman, a West Point Cadet, Air Force Cadet, etc., coming in to barracks (the hall or whatever), drunk from a night on the town needs to be absolutely characterized by the academies as UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR with an appropriate punishment rendered. They are expected to not lie, cheat, or steal, I don't see how expecting them to not be inebriated on the grounds of a US service academy to be that crazy of a notion. For any upperclassmen to conduct themselves in such a manner in front of cadets/mids they are expected to be leading and setting an example for is pretty dumb in my opinion.</p>
<p>Ironic we're talking about drunk upperclass and that last night was service assignment night.</p>
<p>Several updates posted today by USNA. According to this, the incident occured on a Sunday, in Bancroft. Most unfortunate.</p>
<p>living in bancroft, i too think its unlikely that a girl could be raped DURING THE WEEK and no one hear. the weekends are a different matter...the diffident and reclusive duty section is usually hiding in their rooms, watching movies and sleeping, not bustling about, when not standing watch. the hall is pretty much deserted much of the time.</p>
<p>however, everything that has been said is SPECULATION. we know none of the facts of the case, and let's be honest. ADMIRAL REMPT thought there was enough evidence to charge him, and thats all i need to hear. and also, as a girl i'm so sick of guys asserting that is was probably "consensual" and then she just decided to turn him in...because we all know girls are vindictive and dishonest like that. come on. that's low.</p>
<p>Sounds like some opportunity to tighten things up a bit.</p>
<p>I submit that there is no "tighter ship" among U.S. colleges & universities than USNA & other service academies, especially regarding sexual harrassment, acceptable behavior & personal discipline. This does not imply that every individual attending the academies is perfect, but one has to feel confident that in such an environment, any problems would be quickly identified, addressed & corrected. While this incident is tragic for the victim & the accused and unfortunate for everyone associated w/ USNA, the positive side is that it might bring into focus possible positive changes. If there are any issues that need to be addressed, you can bet they are doing it now or have already done it.</p>