<p>boss51,
I thought about the date rape drug too, but how common is that? Also, I'm sure USNA varsity football players don't have trouble finding dates.</p>
<p>Unfortunately it's all too common...not saying it's part of this case, just throwing it out there. And most people realize that rape isn't usually about sex but rather about power. The fact that a football player may be involved isn't really part of the equation.
The guy out in California that was a millionaire heir to the cosmetics fortune routinely used the date rape drug and in fact filmed his victims, which ultimately was his downfall. I'm sure he could have "had" any woman he wanted also.</p>
<p>It would be a real shame if the date rape drug was used, if it was shame on Lamar Owens, it is such a disappointment that this has happened at the Academy. Lamar Owens had so many things go for him, it is truly tragic that he has done this. After hearing of this, being a girl I was a little worried about sexual harassment and other things of that nature, but then I thought that the female who accused Owens of this was in a drunken state. I do feel for her, but at the same time she did put herself in that situation through her use of alcohol. She should have known better, especially since I believe she was not of a legal age. She should be reprimanded for her actions also.</p>
<p>Just to toss this out there...</p>
<p>Owens.
Last year at a prestigious school.
Young, with a full life ahead of him.
Star football player.
Payment of five years is coming.</p>
<p>Maybe football coaches have glanced his way.
Maybe he can go pros.
Maybe he can make a lot of dinero.
Maybe he can pay off that "measley" $300,000+ with part of his pro cash.
Maybe he won't have to pay five years.
Maybe all he had to do was get kicked out.
Maybe she was an accomplice, now trying to save her ass.
Maybe.</p>
<p>...but then again...rape...couldn't that lead to jail?</p>
<p>"What has the world come to?"</p>
<p>If any of this is the case...it leaves a dirty taste in my mouth. Let's hope for the best...if there is one.</p>
<p>
[quote]
being a girl I was a little worried about sexual harassment and other things of that nature...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Don't be any more concerned about it than you would be anywhere else. In fact, you can be LESS worried about it.</p>
<p>This incident is a fluke. Don't let it scare you.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The alleged victim testified the assault occurred after she had been out drinking at an Annapolis bar with friends. She said she was examined for rape on Jan. 31 and reported the attack to criminal investigators on Feb. 6. The taped conversation occurred shortly after.</p>
<p>She said consumed at least eight drinks that night before returning to her dorm with the help of her boyfriend. She eventually went to bed, arose again around 3 a.m. to send text messages to her boyfriend and went back to sleep a half hour later.</p>
<p>She said awoke shortly afterward to find Owens leaning over her bed kissing her. She said she turned away and when she awoke again, Owens was on top of her and her pants were down.</p>
<p>"My pants were off and he was having sex with me," the 20-year-old junior testified. She said she tried to pull away but Owens continued. Soon afterward, Owens left. The woman said she didn't tell him to leave or stop, only telling him she had a boyfriend. She described Owens was an acquaintance who had complimented her in the past on her looks.</p>
<p>Under cross-examination, the woman acknowledged she was very drunk on the night of the assault and that her memory of events was spotty. When defense attorney Wroble asked her if it was possible that she had consented to sex, she answered, "I suppose."</p>
<p>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is part of the report posted on Thursday by USNA- what I find so odd is that she is drunk enough to be assisted back to her room, but then sober enough to send text messages to her boyfriend (have to see the keys for that)- and a suggestion that she might have even sent one to Owens- and then drunk enough again after getting some sleep to wake up and find Owens in her room- then back to sleep- and then awake again with her pants down? And the assault part she sleeps through? What is wrong with this picture?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Later, however, she said, "I wouldn't define it as consent if I can't remember it happening."</p>
<p>Still later, she said, "I don't believe I would have consented."</p>
<p>The victim's boyfriend, also a midshipman, described how he responded later that morning to a text message saying "I'm scared," and found the woman in a fetal position in her bed and crying. She eventually said she thought she had been raped by Owens, the boyfriend testified.</p>
<p>Under cross-examination, the boyfriend said the woman told him she had exchanged messages with Owens, although he said she was uncertain how extensive the exchanges were.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Interesting how kangaroo courts develop. Doubtful that anybody on these threads attended the hearings and knows one iota about the facts and circumstances of this event. Yet, because he is a quarterback who doesn't "have any trouble getting dates" and because she was "drunk," the posts on this board sure seem to further the ideas that the "victim" should be kicked out along with the accused. For what: *For being raped? * I want young women to come forward with such charges if true. * For being drunk! * Generally, with obvious exceptions, this is not a separation offense. *For making an accusation that may be true? * Wouldn't you want your daughter to feel that she could come forward with such a charge without having to face the comments being posted here. *For making an accustaion that may be false? * As a former federal investigator/prosecutor, you can almost be certain that for the story to have gotten this far there is more than circumstantial evidence to the accusation.</p>
<p>A drunk woman can be raped. [Rape: unlawful sexual intercourse committed by a man wiht a woman not his wife through force and against her will.] There is no exclusion for being drunk. There is no exclusion because you were coherent enough to text message your boyfriend at 3a.m. </p>
<p>I can certainly understand the "one dimensionals" calling for her ouster. For the so-called "progressives" to join the cabal that is convicting her along with the accused is shameful. The attitudes expressed herein are amazingly stuck in the 50 and 60s: "Damn b**** was drunk a she deserves what she gets; she must have lured the star quarterback to do such a thing. No way he could have done this on his own."</p>
<p>This is a disgusting discussion that indicts only those that choose to pass judgment with no knowledge of the facts other than what they have read in a press. A press, by the way, that everybody likes to malign *[Can't trust what you read in the press when it criticizes my side of the fence. Unless of course the press furthers my side of the story, THEN I can use quotes.] * when convenient.</p>
<p>Amazing.</p>
<p>IMHO, under-age drinking should definitely be a separation offense. especially if a significant level of inebriation results and other misconduct is involved as a result. I realize this is likely too progressive for a wide sector of the general population to accept, but it is the ideal that should be worked toward as generations become more intelligent in their thinking on drunkenness, especially under the age of 21.</p>
<p>Yeah, I'm "one-dimensional" all right; I believe in right and wrong.</p>
<p>How utterly unreasonable of me. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Bill0510- you are absolutely correct. Just hope the truth comes out- for everyone involved.</p>
<p>A friend of mine at USCGA told me that this whole case may not be what it seems. He knows the QB and he said that this is a case of the girl trying to get QB kicked out of USNA for personal reasons. </p>
<p>I don't know about you but that REALLY p***es me off</p>
<p>Either way, Owens' reputation has been effectively scarred for life.</p>
<p>Like Zaphod said...get rid of 'em both and be done with it.</p>
<p>To ensure that your feelings are clearly posted:</p>
<p>If you, or your daughter, were found to have been drunk and sexually molested [possibly raped], you think that she should resign [or be separated] regardless of the circumstances?</p>
<p>She should separate because?<br>
a] she was drunk;
b] she was sexually molested; or
c] she brought shame upon the Academy for being either drunk or sexually molested?</p>
<p>I think most posts are already clearly presented. No sense carrying on about it since we are all conjecturing based on gossip for the most part anyway.</p>
<p>bill0510....I can't tell if you are asking a rhetorical question here...but let me respond as if it was a legitimate one.</p>
<p>If I took an oath for 'honor, courage and committment'...not to mention duty to the United States Navy, I certainly would think if I was dumb enough to get myself stupored drunk in a public way - (not to mention finding myself in a sexually comprimising situation)....I should consider myself doing the honorable thing and asking to separate from the Academy. I am not simply saying this from a callous or judgemental situation.</p>
<p>When I was a freshman in college I was the firstborn child leaving home for college on a full scholarship. My father had died suddenly in my sophomore year of high school and I felt obligated and excited to be able to complete his and my dream to go straight to college. ( he didn't get his college degree until his 30's after 7 years of night school). Anyway - as part of my college scholarship I signed a contract that I would not take drugs.</p>
<p>I went to ONE party as a month-old freshman where they started passing around a joint. I was so naive I didn't even know what they were doing. Suddenly the thing is thrust in my face. At that point I held on to it and passed it on. I sat there at the party for a bit longer and it began to dawn on me that I could LOSE EVERYTHING by hanging out here. My dignity, my honor, my scholarship, my entire future and it would break my mom's heart who certainly didn't need anymore heartache. I left that party shortly and never participated in anything like that again. My word, signed on that scholarship contract, meant something.</p>
<p>Anyone who goes to the Naval Academy knows full well about the Honor Code and once they raise their right hand on I-Day, in my opinion they
d-mn well better mean those words....and their better be real consequences for poor choices - else the Code means nothing.</p>
<p>So yes, I think both the midshipmen involved in this terrible personal and public situation should consider telling their review boards that they are willing to leave the Academy. At least make such a public statement and then let the process continue. It would certainly save their personal conscience if nothing else.</p>
<p>From my "Certificate of Appointment" I received upon being sworn in as a 4/C Mid:</p>
<p>"You are charged with demonstrating a proper example of performance, moral courage, and dedication to the Naval Service and the Nation. Your every action must be goverrned by a strong sense of personal responsibility..."</p>
<p>IMHO, neither Owens nor the victim displayed any 'personal responsibility'. So yes, for being drunk, for sexual molestation, and especially for their lack of dedication to the Honor Concept and Naval Service, I believe they should both be seperated.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A friend of mine at USCGA told me that this whole case may not be what it seems. He knows the QB and he said that this is a case of the girl trying to get QB kicked out of USNA for personal reasons.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>OY! </p>
<p><zaphod bangs="" his="" head="" against="" the="" wall...=""></zaphod></p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't know about you but that REALLY p***es me off
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Don't even get me started!</p>
<p>
[quote]
To ensure that your feelings are clearly posted:</p>
<p>If you, or your daughter, were found to have been drunk and sexually molested [possibly raped], you think that she should resign [or be separated] regardless of the circumstances?</p>
<p>She should separate because?
a] she was drunk;
b] she was sexually molested; or
c] she brought shame upon the Academy for being either drunk or sexually molested?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>A) and C).</p>
<p>Simple, really.</p>
<p>Latest Navy Times article:
<a href="http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=0-NAVYPAPER-1588101.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=0-NAVYPAPER-1588101.php</a>
Not looking good for Owens. This one just may go to trial.</p>
<p>AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>Can't access the article without an account. Dad2B, would you recommend we get accounts or can you post another copy?</p>