There have been a few threads about UVA arrogance so I will add on as a wahoo with a wahoo there now and another applying. So I love UVA, but I do not like arrogance. The arrogance is part of the culture… A culture that has run out of time/usefulness. Now, it’s cool to have high credentials, undisputed credentials, but be humble all the same. Arrogance is not just UVA vs. the rest of the world, but towards anyone a divider can be put up against.
A friend recently told me in an info session her son attended at UVA the admissions counselor told the audience that most of the people there would not get in - who says that? My UVA student received marketing materials from every Ivy/esteemed school in America practically begging her to apply (her credentials would bump up their stats). One waived the fee based on her test scores. Several gave her $$ and many admissions to the prized honors program. What did she get from UVA? Nada. It’s something we still talk about - nothing, like you are a nobody. Her credentials are crazy good. She has a 3.9+ there in engineering. UVA is generous in that it gives about a third of the students $$, but few have gotten it for merit-based reasons.So give more merit-based aid, even if a little $. Be like Rice and waive admissions for the ones with the crazy high scores. Make them feel special. And, you know – they deserve it because they worked HARD to be at top!
So, UVA, it’s about time to promote a message of inclusiveness which ultimately will get you more applicants AND more acceptances from accepted applicants. From there, your credentials will go up – and then nobody will question how good you are.
Not trying to be disrespectful, but can you explain why your daughter decided to go there with all those other options she had? Just trying to understand if it’s worth it.
UVa’s Board did recently approve setting aside some money for merit aid. However, UVa made a policy decision a number of years ago to emphasize need-based aid, instead of merit-based aid. That is also the policy of almost all of the top universities in the US. Large amounts of merit aid is mainly used by colleges that are trying to raise their admission stats so they can rise up in US News ratings.
Most of the colleges that offer free applications are trying to raise their application numbers and reduce their admission rates. UVa has thousands more applications than it needs.
UVa has been successful in increasing its diversity in recent years. I’ll admit that arrogance has been an issue among some of the students for decades. I’m sorry if there is an admissions staffer who is arrogant.
@ Lil Shortay Haven’t you heard OOS and private vs state flagship tuition. The OP’s daughter may still get better tuition deal from instate UVA than merit aid from OOS private, higher ranked schools. I think OP was just upset in hearing the arrogance that the admissions counselor made, and that led the OP to think about the school’s treatment on its top students themselves.
I attended a few top schools’ information sessions a couple years ago, and they all said most students applied were all highly qualified for their schools and there were just limited spots each year for them could take, so they could only look for those fit to make a diversified class. A well trained representative of any school should not say something outright to the potential applicants that they are mostly not likely to get in. It’s bad for the school. I do believe the OP was truly in saying the staff of UVA did that. I got similar experience from the neighboring state flagship, and I steering my own kid away from that school when it’s my kid’s turn.
Unfortunately, admission has no power when it comes to merit money (tuition discounting). The University directs the vast majority of aid to need-based financial aid. We can offer waivers to those for whom the application fee is a financial burden (students submit documentation for this), but we are not permitted to give waivers just based on test scores.
It seems you like the “recruit to deny” style of admission. We don’t dangle incentives to coax students into applying so we can manufacture a lower admission rate. It’s just not something I can get on board with since we are a public school. We go over the admission rates in our info sessions (we don’t tell people they aren’t getting admitted). I feel strongly about being clear about the data so students understand their chances. I see that as our duty as a public school.
I am curious about the inclusiveness comment. Communications has worked so hard to tell the stories of students from every school, background, interest, etc. I think the marketing today is infinitely more inclusive than what it was like when I arrived in Peabody Hall in 2005.
^^^ Yes. UVA does not need more applicants. More applications only helps them deny more students which helps them in the long run… yield. They also don’t need to offer any merit aid because there are plenty of students that will pay full price. It’s not about being nice, generous, helpful, kind, etc. unless it helps them. Arrogance, prestige, selectiveness, it all goes hand in hand.
I don’t see UVA giving merit based money, because they don’t have to. Michigan does not and I am sure there are other top ranked state schools that do not. Also, to OP…there are tons of crazy smart kids with great credentials (my kids included :)) ) and they seem to get the marketing materials from the schools that love the, what DeanJ said, “recruit to deny” style of admission. The kids think they are special getting all the flyers, glossy pamphlets, emails, etc from top schools…only to apply, and get denied from most. In any event, my student got invited to the Echols Scholar program and did feel special. What about the other kids that want to feel special. It isn’t all about test scores and grades!
P.S. Ivies don’t give merit so I am confused why you are wanting something from UVA. .
UVa has said they would like to have some merit money to offer, provided it does not come at the expense of need-based aid. There are many top students who want to attend UVa but who are receiving large merit offers from non-Ivy universities. In many cases, the price difference between those other colleges and UVa becomes very significant, especially if the family lives in an area with high housing costs. The intent is not to give out $30,000 a year merit offers, but to provide a limited amount to top students to make their decision-making process a little easier.
I personally wish the (privately funded) Jefferson Scholarship program would provide twice a many scholarships at half of the total cost of UVa, instead of funding full costs. I’m guessing that many of the families granted Jefferson scholarships could easily afford to pay at least 1/2 of UVa’s costs, and instead the money that they would have been spent on UVa goes to pay for a new Audi instead.
“I personally wish the (privately funded) Jefferson Scholarship program would provide twice a many scholarships at half of the total cost of UVa, instead of funding full costs. I’m guessing that many of the families granted Jefferson scholarships could easily afford to pay at least 1/2 of UVa’s costs, and instead the money that they would have been spent on UVa goes to pay for a new Audi instead.”
Depends on what your goals are.
The Jefferson is a close knock-off of UNC’s Morehead. And also similar to the Robertson at Duke/UNC or the Woodruff at Emory. So I think the full ride money is there to communicate extreme selectivity and prestige. The kind of selectivity/prestige that would cause kids to turn down HYPS offers and which identifies the kids as potential Rhodes Scholar contenders in the future. So in addition to the full ride dollars, you want to keep the number of recipients small or else you dilute the selectivity/prestige branding.
If you are looking to get more bang for the limited merit money dollars by having more recipients, then you could do 50-100% tuition schollies. That’s what you see at Vandy, ND, WUSTL, Rice, USC, Emory. At those schools, kids can get additional need-based financial aid if they still have need after the scholarship. But in many cases, the 50-100% tuition discount more than takes care of need.
But the more of those schollies you give out, the less exclusive each one is.
No disrespect taken. We are in state and UVA is a top school at an affordable price. My daughter would have needed to get student loans for the amt over UVA tuition for any out of state school. She is practical and so went with UVA. She loves it there, is getting opportunities only afforded to Ivy’s for internships and has been also given the opportunity to be a teaching asst. It was a great choice for her.
You make the false assumption that my student only had the grades/scores. She competed at Nationals in her sport and received an highly prestigious service award which provided letters from the President and others. You may have a point about Ivys not giving merit awards – maybe the don’t but I hear they negotiate big time down the tuition to compete with the other schools. My daughter’s friend negotiated with Harvard to get the tuition down substantially, and he could pay no problem.
Dean J, thanks for commenting! I get your point regarding the ‘recruit to deny’ style; it seems clever on some level, but found it ironic that one school waived all fees to get my student to apply and then waitlisted her. She wasn’t interested in going there regardless and wouldn’t have applied unless they contacted her. But, clearly they liked her perfect STEM scores. They may use models to figure out probability of student accepting as well, and figured out they probably wouldn’t get a Yes from her (wouldn’t doubt it all – so that their rate of Yeses is high as well). My next child didn’t take the bait.
Glad to hear that UVA admissions wouldn’t tell folks ‘most of you are not getting in’. I do understand sharing the stats. Thinking there was some miscommunication there from parents who told me they said that. It’s possible parents who know their kids won’t get in may feel bad about it and misinterpret the message.
The comment of inclusion was more about shedding the image of we are better than you. It’s hard to explain, but it is there. As a public school UVA grad, the private schoolers projected that vibe too. I agree the school has a persistent and broad message of diversity – full support there as long as the standards are the same. My kids go to diverse schools and everyone there, including Asians, should be looked at through the same lens. To eliminate bias, has anyone given thought to dropping getting info on race/ethnicity, maybe removing name & gender? Or substituting that for income? We are fast becoming a melting pot and answering the question is difficult for many. What do non-US schools ask?
The school provides 1/3rd of students money based on merit which is terrific assuming the $$ can come from other sources than in state tuition.
OP, not everything friends and acquaintances tell you about college admissions is truth, or the whole truth. That includes the alleged comment “you are not getting in” and negotiating Harvard’s tuition for a full-pay student.
@Charliesch
“I’m guessing that many of the families granted Jefferson scholarships could easily afford to pay at least 1/2 of UVa’s costs, and instead the money that they would have been spent on UVa goes to pay for a new Audi instead.”
I find that an unnecessarily harsh assessment. Jefferson Scholars work hard to be there, and if they are selected, they are certainly worthy of it. As a nominated JS myself, I can tell you that my family cannot easily afford to pay at least 1/2 of UVA’s tuition. In-state is around 33,000 a year. Not many folks can easily pull $16000 out of thin air. Should I win the scholarship, my family will not be using the sudden surplus to ‘buy Audis.’ Rather, it will be used to help my ailing grandparents, among other things.
I only ask that people aren’t categorized by such blanket statements.
