<p>I am not trying to sau that UVA is full of arrogant jerks-as I said, my older S attends UVA and loves it there. My younger son is interested in USC because they made the first move and did a great job of selling themselves. Not to mention the fact that he will save enough money going there to pay for another year of school for his master's degree. </p>
<p>I still stand by my original statement that UVA's excellence is what sells it. It doesn't really need to try as hard.</p>
<p>Lasker, UVA was my daughter's choice, not mine. She made the decision not to enroll, not me. None of the colleges on her list were my choices and they ranged from top 25 to 3rd tier. Her list was never based on prestige but rather academic offerings in her area of interest, support for undergraduate research , etc. As a matter of fact, she was completely unaware of college rankings until she arrived at college (Knew they existed, didn't care what they said so never looked at them). She went to a large public High School that was more than 75% minority (we are not) and more than 65% qualified for free lunch. She has never taken an SAT or other Prep course and I never screamed at her to study. I was fine if she went to a local state regional university. I've never owned an SUV and other than the UVA sticker she put on the car in ninth grade, no University sticker has ever been on our cars. Unless they specifically ask, no one knows where she attends college. Her college experience wasn't wrapped up in the prestige of the institution she would attend but rather what she would gain and what she could affect. We talked to real University students, maintenace people, police, townspeople in restaurants and shopowners in every college we visited. Unfortunately, the kind of hostility you seem to have toward anyone that would dare to question the greatness of UVA and not be in awe of the students who attend this university is some of what we saw on our visits. My post was not meant to denegrate this University but rather to give Dean J some of the honest feedback she asked for regarding changes in their marketing strategy and what other Universities were doing that made a difference. It was not about the students but about the admissions process. UVA is a great University but like anything or anyone, there are warts that must be examined and ways to make it better. </p>
<p>I am not at all worried about my daughter's success in life. She has successfully negotiated college life more than 2500 miles from home, applied for and received a large summer research grant to conduct independent research in a forgeign country which has been completed, spent a semester overseas, is involved in the community, is studying for the GRE and is working on two papers to submit to conferences or journals. She goes out with friends and is happily involved with a young man who seems to adore her. And, she will graduate debt free! Whatever she missed by not attending UVA doesn't seem to have affected her life too much. But then, I never doubted she would find her way wherever she went.</p>
<p>Im interested in knowing more about this topic...why do i always see people say, "this may not be the university for everyone"? Basically, what im asking is whats wrong with UVA? (besides the tour guides)</p>
<p>Whoa, Lasker. I may not have been very clear in my previous post. We thought the people (including our tour guide) were just fine. I was just pointing out to Dean J a subtle sense of superiority that we noted. I specifically stated that we did NOT feel that it was offensive, but was trying to give the UVA administration a point of view from a prospective applicant about the way we (the public) may perceive them to help them with their marketing. I believe that's what she was asking us to do. It was meant as constructive criticism. I don't think UVA is full of arrogant jerks. There are plenty of them to go around (At UVA and elsewhere). My dtr will do fine wherever she goes. Like many here, I believe the quality of the education is directly related to the effort/desire and quality of the student, not the prestige, etc. of the institution.</p>
<p>is that why UVa is supposedly "not for everyone"? UVa has a great retention rate 97%, so im wondering why someone would say that.</p>
<p>Because no school is for everyone, mojo.</p>
<p>but if a school is not for everyone, then no one would be there! HAHA</p>
<p>That doesn't make any sense...</p>
<p>Terrible logic, mojo.</p>
<p>Wow! I never got the standoffish impression from anyone at UVA. All admission officers and students we spoke to in the process were very welcoming and informative. We visited the grounds several times leading up to the time that my son decided that it was the right place for him.</p>
<p>No, we didn't get much correspondence and follow up postcards, but I, for one, was grateful for the lack of clutter and appreciation of the high cost of sending them.</p>
<p>want some real arrogance? princeton university's admission office.</p>
<p>i do agree that UVa admission office could be much more welcoming.</p>
<p>i know for a fact that employers find darden's kids arrogant. i've been trying to figure out what exactly makes these kids feel like they are better than others.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I recall asking a perfectly wonderful Echols student about his favorite class last year and he named a course, but when I asked him how many people were in the class, it exceeded 350.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What does that have to do with anything? There are some excellent classes here that simply can't be any smaller than that. Not that class size is much of a problem here, anyway...</p>
<p>Lasker:</p>
<p>Been away for a few days and didn't see your message until now. I'm afraid you are caught in two logic traps: "allness" language and single hypothesis causality.</p>
<p>I can think of several reasons you might find parents on these boards, among them:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Your hypothesis that they are insecure losers who live lives through their children.</p></li>
<li><p>They have other children nearing college age, and have reason to keep up with trends and other information.</p></li>
<li><p>They are concerned about the generally awful advice given by 17-year-old "experts" and want to help by providing generally useful information.</p></li>
<li><p>They formed a community during the search and admissions process, and are reluctant to let go of on-line relationships formed with other parents.</p></li>
<li><p>They find political discussion here to be of much higher quality than that found on other boards.</p></li>
<li><p>They are concerned alumni of various colleges.</p></li>
<li><p>They miss their own children and find that corresponding with young people here provides a sort of surrogate experience.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I'm sure there are many more reasons that would occur to me were I to give this five more minutes of thought, but I'd rather not waste the time.</p>
<p>mojojojo</p>
<p>I've been away for a few days, so I'm sorry this answer is late. Why isn't every college for everyone? Well, some answers are rather obvious. A given college may not have the major one wants or may not be strong in a particular major. It may be too far from home, too big, too small, too Greek, not Greek enough, too expensive, located near allergens, too hot, too cold, too rainy, too dry, or any number of other factors that may make it the wrong match.</p>
<p>Another factor is culture defined as "norms of behavior in a given organization." Schools with "thick" cultures are (in my opinion) the most delightful schools in the country. But thick cultures, by their nature, appeal strongly to some and are repellent to others. Some people would love Warren Wilson and others would hate it. Some would love Liberty U and others would gag. </p>
<p>Get the picture?</p>
<p>The University of Virgina has a relatively thick culture, though not as thick as some other schools and less thick than it used to be. If you like that culture, it's heaven. If you wouldn't like that culture, it's hell.</p>
<p>Ergo, the University of Virginia is not for everyone. I loved the place, but many would not.</p>
<p>Take a writing course Tarhunt.</p>
<p>lasker:</p>
<p>You are one pleasant individual, aren't you? I sincerely hope you have no connection with the University of Virginia. I know from experience that no faculty member there would find your response useful or even relevant. If you attend UVA, perhaps you will be educated out of this tendency. If you don't attend, I hope I never have to call you a fellow alum.</p>
<p>
I've been away for a few days, so I'm sorry this answer is late. Why isn't every college for everyone? Well, some answers are rather obvious. A given college may not have the major one wants or may not be strong in a particular major. It may be too far from home, too big, too small, too Greek, not Greek enough, too expensive, located near allergens, too hot, too cold, too rainy, too dry, or any number of other factors that may make it the wrong match.</p>
<p>Another factor is culture defined as "norms of behavior in a given organization." Schools with "thick" cultures are (in my opinion) the most delightful schools in the country. But thick cultures, by their nature, appeal strongly to some and are repellent to others. Some people would love Warren Wilson and others would hate it. Some would love Liberty U and others would gag.</p>
<p>Get the picture?</p>
<p>The University of Virgina has a relatively thick culture, though not as thick as some other schools and less thick than it used to be. If you like that culture, it's heaven. If you wouldn't like that culture, it's hell.</p>
<p>Ergo, the University of Virginia is not for everyone. I loved the place, but many would not.
</p>
<p>
Why isn't every college for everyone? A college may not have opportunities for certain majors. It may be too far from home, too big, too small, too Greek, not Greek enough, too expensive, located near allergens, too hot, too cold, too rainy, too dry, etc.</p>
<p>Another factor is culture. Schools with thick cultures can be delightful. But thick cultures don't appeal to everyone. The University of Virgina has a thick culture. If you don't like that culture, you won't like UVA. I loved it!
I guess you didn't major in writing. Fool.</p>
<p>c'mon lasker, you are pushing it a bit. it's the internet, as long as people understand what you mean, it's all good.</p>
<p>I don't take kindly to being talked down to -- especially not from a pretentious moron. Just look at this quote.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Tarhunt decides to make up a word and put it in quotes for no reason. Then, because I sarcastically used the phrase "all parents," declares that I'm caught in a "logic trap." </p>
<p>But wait. The stupidity isn't finished yet.</p>
<p>Tarhunt makes up a new statistic term -- single hypothesis causality. Oh, please tell me more about this new concept professor Tarhunt. I am humbled by your infinite wisdom.</p>
<p>I've never had to dig through so much crap in a single sentence. Clearly Tarhunt has a creepy desire to be accepted.</p>
<p>Lasker:</p>
<p>The term "allness" is not mine. To the best of my knowledge, it was coined by Alfred Korzybski, the father of general semantics. Link here:</p>
<p>It may have been coined earlier and Korzybski may have adopted the term. I wouldn't know.</p>
<p>Single hypothesis causality is also not a new term. I first heard it from AM Leslie, but it may have come from elsewhere.</p>
<p>I appreciate your setting forth something to which I could respond. Ad hominem attacks are your specialty and there's very little that can be done with those.</p>