UW Madison or Oberlin?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Wisconsin
21

“I’m not sure what monydad’s comments about class size etc contribute to the conversation, .”

My comments were intended to help OP focus on the difference in the experiences of intro classes at both schools. I think that does contribute to the conversation. If you are not sure that class sizes/recitations,etc are relevant in a discussion of attending a major research U vs. a LAC, then you are welcome to that opinion, but many on CC would differ.

“.since that poster is not familiar with UW registration, courses, structure.”
That’s why I asked you all. Thank you for providing the information.

22

When there are graduates and parents of graduates and current parents posting here, with specific, experience-based information about UW, that would seem to be more specifically tailored to the OP’s questions. We have spent a fair amount of time on Oberlin’s campus with two prospective students, but I don’t claim to have inside info about the experience of Oberlin for students.

Certainly, anyone can post on the differences between a LAC and research university, and I agree that input is relevant and an important consideration for the OP. At the same time, the OP didn’t post on the College Selection board generally about “how to choose between LAC and a research school,” he/she posted here, for info on UW. In that context, general info about UW about course listings, class size etc., without the context of how registration or classes etc work at UW, and how Honors optional, Honors only etc. all works, is very general info without specific context for the OP about what his/her UW experience might be like.

23

Something else OP should bear in mind is, you may be interested in international relations now. But you have not even set foot in college yet.

When you get there you will hopefully be exposed to things you are barely even familiar with now. You could wind up getting turned on by something totally different than international relations. Or find out one can’t do much with an international relations major at the undergrad level, and gravitate to something else. Great offerings in that area are certainly relevant, but give some thought about the extent to which you want to make that the lynchpin of your entire decision process.

My D2 picked her undergrad school entirely based on her intended major. Then changed her mind about that major. starting even before she showed up there actually. After a year or so she realized she didn’t really like the place. Wound up transferring.

A friend of mine from HS came into college intending to major in physics and wound up getting a doctorate in art history.

24

:he/she posted here,"
Yes. The right of anybody to post on any CC sub-forum has already been established by the moderator.

" for info on UW."
No. For opinions related to his decision on one school vs. the other.

To quote from #1:
“I wanted to get a bunch of opinions on my two college choices.”

Note the word “TWO” in the above topic sentence.

There are two schools involved here. If you are laying yourself out as being expert in both of them, then you are the only one on this thread making that claim. I certainly did not make it, I explicitly asked others for their expertise. Yet you and I are not the only ones who posted.

This is really too much though, posters are supposed to be talking about the topic not other posters.

25

I don’t understand why this thread has gotten prickly. Everyone here is trying to offer their experience and advice to the OP, a senior choosing between two different, but wonderful, options. Class size generally, of course, is significant in understanding the learning environment and I did not mean to suggest it didn’t. However, two experienced posters on this board, wis75 and myself, who are very familiar with UW, wanted to responded to the comment about 1200 students in Econ.

I re-read the OP’s original request, and he said that he prefers Oberlin’s environment but is concerned about cost, and wonders whether UW would be a rehash of high school types, and whether there are clear advantages in coming from one school or another.

As a parent of a current college student, and as someone who went through college on a shoestring budget, IF the OP is comfortable with the lecture style classroom for intro and some intermediate classes, then the financial advantages of UW could be significant. If it were me – and it’s not – knowing that the only way the school was affordable included, for instance, having to live and work in a co-op rather than a standard dorm and meal plan, would be a strong reason not to go to the more expensive option. The missed opportunities because of cost constraints – which I dealt with as a student – such as unpaid internships, study abroad etc., because of the need to always earn money, save money, not commit to expenses that I didn’t know how I would fund – meant I gave up a lot. For an instate kid, with funding, as a I gather the OP is, the doors open wide at UW, with lots of flexibility for short term and long term study abroad, unpaid internships etc. Not having to pinch pennies all the way through can be a tremendous relief.

Others as well as myself suggested that the social environment at UW would not be a re-hash of high school and that there are many, many groups of kids at UW.

Certainly, in terms of post-grad options, both schools are well-regarded by prospective employers and by graduate/professional schools.

But if the OP loves Oberlin and does not think they can flourish at UW because of size reasons, then the answer is similarly simple – go to Oberlin.

26

There are some advantages to living in the coops actually. They provide a more intimate experience, I think, I’ll confirm with D1 when she gets home. Plus the most popular freshman dorm is a bit like “Animal House”, by reputation, OP would possibly do well to avoid it.

27

Hi everyone. I’m a student at UW Madison who is majoring in what OP wants to study.

First, let’s just address the Econ 101 discussion. As with any intro class, you have options. For introductory econ, yes, you can take econ 101 which will be a 200 person lecture taught by a professor and have discussion sections headed by TAs. You can also take Econ 111, a similar experience to what you’d get at Oberlin. A small class with 15 kids who meet with the professor once a week. The same can be said for Poli Sci 104 vs PS 184, for 106 vs 186. There are choices at Madison. I’ve taken both kinds and I like a mix. I thought I wouldn’t like the large lectures, but they’re actually a lot of fun. They’re a great way to make friends, and if you take the initiative to build a relationship with your professor, it can be especially rewarding.

Bottom line – size is a moot point.

Now, you say you want to major in international relations which isn’t actually a degree option here, and that’s a good thing. You may think you understand the field of political science, but it’s actually fairly complex. The Poli Sci degree allows you to explore the field by requiring you to take 3 out of the 4 subfield intro classes (American gov, IR, comparative, and theory). You may find what you thought you liked you actually don’t. For example, I just knew that I wasn’t that interested in American government. I took some IR classes and liked, but didn’t love them. On a whim I signed up for a comparative class on China that changed the course of my academic career. I’m travelling to China this summer and have plans to take Mandarin now. I’ve also decided to double in East Asian Studies as a complement to my poli sci degree.

And that’s really the beauty of the department. We have so many faculty members with a wide range of interests and specialties from top universities around the world. Here are just some of the exciting classes I’ve had the opportunity to take:

Jonathan Renshon, a political psychologist, taught an honors seminar (14 students) this semester on Crisis Decision Making

Melanie Manion, a comparative political scientist, taught a small lecture called Political Power in Contemporary China

Helen Kinsella, IR political scientist and feminist theorist, taught a lecture on the Principles of International Law

Scott Straus, comparative political scientist, taught a class on Human Rights, using his extensive field experience in Rwanda as a launching board.

And these are just some of the many interesting classes offered.

We’re a top 20 department with a crazy amount of talent. The professors like each other, they care about your success, and they’re interesting people. I’ve built relationships with those listed above as well as my TAs. Two semester later, I still go visit some of them to ask for advice or just chat. They smile and say hello when they see you on campus. You just have to make the effort.

You’re concerned about homogeny, and I get that. I was too. I never actually wanted to go to Madison. I come from a town about half an hour south but still in WI. 40 kids from my school came here, and I was concerned it was going to be a continuation of high school. It wasn’t even kind of. Another poster said it best – you get the freedom you want with a population of 40,000 and the comfort of seeing a friendly face every so often. Two years later, I’ll still run into people I went to HS with that I had NO idea attended this school. It’s a nonissue.

You’ll find a diverse, idea-rich student body with places abound for intellectual conversation. I cannot tell you the number of times a quick hello in a coffee shop has turned into a three hour intellectual debate about the merits of giving foreign aid or the role of religion in society. I have been constantly challenged both mentally and intellectually since entering school. I’ve grown so much as a person and feel like I have a better (though woefully incomplete) picture of how the world works and where I fit in it.

I received a scholarshipped study abroad experience to go learn in Shanghai this summer. Next year, I’m taking a year to study in Madrid to better my skills in Spanish. And senior year, I plan to write a thesis on the survival of the authoritarian state.

That’s been MY UW so far. What do you want yours to be? The possibilities are literally endless. I’m so excited for you.

let me know if you have any other questions.

28

^^Fantastic post!

29

@adamjr4 thank you! you’ve given me a lot to think about, and i never knew how strong the intl relations department was at madison!

30

@Midwestmomofboys thanks for the opinion! i do feel that if i went to oberlin, i would be way too focused on the money aspect and always trying to save. i hate to have things hanging over my head, and this debt would definitely feel like it.

31

@Madison85 sorry for not clarifying, i would be 11k in debt after 4 years, not 11k each year.

32

Definitely check on the diversity of courses in fields that interest you. UW has so many you can’t take them all- even staying extra years. The caliber of professors can make a difference. Also- the TA’s at UW will become those professors as well. It is nice to have TA’s who bridge the age gap and still are students close to their own undergrad experiences. Consider flexibility if you change your major as so many incoming freshmen to all colleges do. People from HS can be great for carpooling for trips home even if that’s the only encounter.

33

I would not choose to go into even $11,000 more debt, with a constriction of living options, to attend Oberlin over UW. I chose UW honors over higher-ranked LACs than Oberlin many years ago, that would have been more expensive than even OOS tuition at Madison. While this was my personal decision, and partially dictated by finances, I do feel that the options in the last couple of undergrad years open up exponentially at a world-class public flagship, as per the post up-thread.

That said, these advanced undergrad opportunities at UW do not imply causation that the first ~two years at Madison are necessarily deficient – e.g. lacking in potential community, support, or exposure to stimulating and transformative experiences. Initial years different than a LAC: yes. Substandard: no.

I think it is important to address a subjective pitfall here: it is often difficult for residents of a state with an outstanding flagship to recognize objectively the resources, reputation and opportunities their respective flagship offers. Particularly so when the flagship has been close-by, and serves as the default for many of the best students year after year. Whether Wisconsin, Michigan, U. of California premier campuses, UNC-Chapel Hill, etc. – these schools demand a second or third look before opting for a grass-is-greener-for-more-$ approach. And I do feel Oberlin is an excellent school, particularly for creative pursuits. But it isn’t clearly superior, and in many ways lacking, compared to UW’s formidable resources. If in the end you opt to pay more for Oberlin, you will also receive a fine education. Best of luck-

34

Sounds like UW offers a great opportunity. You will not regret having reduced debt. Having a fair amount of debt is very distracting, so having less will have you feeling better during your UG years.

35

Just my opinion, but FWIW… UW-Madison has a MUCH larger Alumni Network than Oberlin, and that may very well work in your favor throughout your career. A lot of high school students and their families forget to consider the strength and value of a large Alumni Network when considering a state flagship university vs. a much smaller liberal arts college.

36

My daughter selected between these 2 schools last week. It was all Oberlin, LAC education until she visited Madison. Seeing the vast array of opportunity in Madison, the vibrant community, and speaking to 4 different students, who all loved Madison, eased her fear of a large school setting. She plans to study social science and really like how the state capital is adjacent to the campus. She is OOS and finance were not an issue. She comes from a large public school and can advocated for herself. in the end, I was impressed with both schools.