If I have to put this thread in slow mode again, it will be for the fourth time. Since the ever-increasing interval will next be 45 minutes, before I do that, I would like to encourage the users who have dominated the thread to talk past one another for the last couple of hours to perhaps go for a coffee run or grab an ice cream 
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Add CA to the bandwagon trying to help push Covid back in spite of those who refuse vaxes. I prefer not to see the testing option (unless one truly shouldn’t be vaxed for health reasons), but it’s better than nothing. Let’s hope a lot more workplaces and schools get on board now that courts have supported them and the mounds of data are out there:
Here’s something for people who think waiting is better to think about:
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Ummm. What I shared about what Paul Offit said was actually from an interview I listened to last summer. He made those comments before vaccines were ever approved. I realize the context now is completely different because millions have received the vaccine. When I said first few months, I literally mean first few months with the caveat that younger age groups got vaccinated later so my “few months” could be read by May rather than March.
I think most of what we are going to learn about side effects, we’ve already learned….and yet, the FDA very recently decided to put the warning on the J&J info sheet so who knows….
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Because your “for sure” assertion is unproven and extraordinarily misleading.
Responsible medical professionals will acknowledge that, while deaths have occurred after vaccinations, such deaths are extraordinarily rare (.0018%), and, more importantly, that there is no established causal connection between the vaccine and the deaths. From the CDC:
FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines.
It may be that some medical professionals have said that, even if a causal connection is established, one’s odds would still be better with the vaccine, but that is a far cry from stating as “fact” that the vaccine is killing people.
@MACmiracle, while I am sure you meant well, providing outdated, misleading, and irrelevant information sows doubt where there is little or no doubt. Likewise with passing off personal anecdotes as if they had relevance to the science.
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Out of curiosity, what is your medical expertise on this (or source of your expertise)?
I get a lot of mine from my medical lad who is interacting with it all getting updates from doctors, researchers, the AMA, etc, then add what I find online from sources like the NYT or links folks provide on here.
My “for sure” assertion was that far more people have died from Covid than any vax. That is easily proven and not at all misleading. I think you read into it what you wanted to see rather than what was written and meant.
V-Safe is still texting me, asking how I’m feeling and if I’ve gotten covid.
They are describing vaccine reluctance, which is very purpose of thread.
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From a recent Chicago Tribune Editorial:
This board stands for individual liberty and your right to control your own body and health. We have opposed …government-mandated vaccine passports on these grounds, while supporting the rights of private enterprises, like the Lollapalooza promoters, to require them if they so choose. Throughout the board’s history, we’ve rarely used words like “should” or “must” when it comes to private individuals choosing how to live their lives. Freedom and autonomy are core values.
We think that 175-year track record gives us some bona fides when we respectfully say this to our valued, unvaccinated readers: The data this July is rapidly changing in unanticipated ways and it is past time for your shot. “Should” has entered our lexicon. So has “must.” These are not usual times.
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I think you are reading everyone of my posts with a bias against me because of my opposition to fetal stem cell research. I can understand that you might not agree with my position on that; it’s not a very popular opinion. But I assure you my feelings on that doesn’t keep me from appreciating the vaccines, and I don’t think it disqualifies me from making a positive contribution to this conversation.
I post things on vaccine effectiveness in the context of conversations here about waning immunity and how vaccines might be made more effective through things like boosters, intervals, etc. There are probably places where people might take something I share about waning effectiveness and run with it, but I don’t think the people on CC are prone to that. The same goes for my “musings” about who might be better off getting certain vaccines. It’s not as though the smart folks here are going to read my comments and make decisions on them, but, who knows, it might lead to them to do their own research and talk to their doctors about it.
I will say it again, I am really thankful for the covid vaccines we have, and I am sad that I can’t get one with serious qualms of conscience: Is it ok for me to benefit from another person’s loss of life? It’s not something I expect people to understand and I can deal with the eye rolls of people who I understand have deeply suffered from covid’s effects on friends and family in a way I have not.
I spent an hour on the phone this morning with a mom friend who was stressed about getting her children vaccinated. She had already spoken with her pediatrician but was still having doubts after other people questioned her choice. She called me, not as a medical professional, but as someone who reads obsessively and would give her an objective opinion. I know she would get her children vaccinated without my input but I think I was able to reassure her. She said she could feel the tension in her shoulders relax as we talked. I consider that my good deed of the day.
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I directly quoted the CDC. If your “medical lad” disagrees, he can take it up with the CDC.
I thought the purpose of the thread was to come up with strategies to address vaccine reluctance, not to spread vaccine reluctance by disseminating anecdotes and other false and misleading information.
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A huge part of strategy forming is truly understanding the POV of others and not belittling it. Doing the latter causes people to dig in and defend their beliefs far more often than it causes change.
Taking anything that is presented and pretending it doesn’t exist leaves most people thinking the person shoving it under the carpet has no idea what they are talking about. Taking what is presented and reasoning it out as is done with pretty much any reputable Fact Check site can change minds.
Telling people not to present anything, esp on a thread created to deal with it, is pointless. It makes them think they really do have info others are trying to cover up.
The CDC gives their statements on things after research has been done. In the meantime, research is going on based upon observations. Covid might be over a year old now, but it’s still new - as are the vaccines for it. Several of us on this board are scientific minded and like looking at the observations musing ourselves about them in an intelligent manner. We don’t prefer to sit around and just wait. Thinking about such things - how they work, what might be, etc, etc, etc is what makes us tick.
Quite honestly, if doing such things or reading about them bothers you as much as it seems to, this could be a thread you might want to mute in order to lower your stress levels.
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From another thread but relevant here as well.
Hopefully this type of research will help alleviate concerns about vaccine safety/side effects.
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Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt here. This site is not the cdc nor the nih nor the website of a medical system. It’s a place where people talk and share information as well as their feelings.
Reluctance is a feeling. It can be based on beliefs and information or misinformation. But by discussing information, correcting misinformation, and sharing personal stories, feelings can be changed. And I think it can help people like me who are trying to navigate their way through a pandemic and come to terms with the situation, like the importance of vaccination despite personal convictions.
I love hear human stories and so I share anecdotes. Maybe they are irrelevant, but sometimes they are powerful enough to change minds.
When I shared about the urgent care doctor telling us that the people he is seeing in our highly vaccinated area with covid are fully vaccinated people, it was actually irrelevant with regard to the matter we were discussing, but I appreciated it. It did not make me think, “Those vaccines suck! I’m glad those spike proteins are wreaking havoc in my body and making the people around me miscarriage!” Rather I thought, “This Delta variant is nasty. Maybe I shouldn’t wait anymore. We’re going to have to get the ball rolling on boosters.”
And as far as sowing doubt, we need to be real about the fact that the most up to date data is showing waning immunity with Pfizer over time and given as recommended. There might be confounding factors, but that’s what the science is saying. People should take care, especially with Delta, and there should be an effort to get boosters into arms.
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I’d argue that every day someone doesn’t get vaccinated and every day someone doesn’t get covid, they are indirectly benefiting from someone else’s pain and misfortune. Every person who gets vaccinated helps keep the unvaccinated safe. Many, many of those people are sick for a day or two afterwards. A tiny number might suffer a worse consequence. Clearly, some get covid anyway, but very few of those people die. And they are still protecting the unvaccinated. Every person who ends up in the hospital is one less person out there spreading disease. It’s horrible, sad and true.
We have to protect the living who are already here.
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I ran into a staunch anti vaxxer this weekend.
Said that young people shouldn’t get vaccinated because they aren’t going to die. Follows a doctor on YouTube that has all the information. That we don’t know what is going to happen years down the line.
I never want to interact with this person ever again. As she was walking out of the restaurant we were at, she could barely walk she was so heavy and her knees were so bad. She’s exactly the person who does need the vaccine!
She’s hasn’t seen her kid in 2 years, idk if her anti vaxx sentiments are why but the kid lives in a place where a large percentage of residents are vaccinated.
I felt pity and extreme anger. About how divided we are as a country.
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I run into this far more than I would like. Some are my family extended relatives (some aunts, uncles, etc). Some are H’s family (BIL, SIL). Some are due to where we live in deep stereotypical anti-vax US. It’s really, really frustrating TBH. Seeing people die from church or other places in their lives has changed some, but not enough. The sources they follow as gospel have me banging my head against the wall at times.
The staunch ones have totally closed minds to reason and they try to push their ideas on everyone - exactly what they don’t want others to be doing to them.
For those I just have to walk away, but as I said before, I no longer feel sorry when something bad Covid-wise happens to one of them. I just hope their lot in life can help change others who have chosen that path. I appreciate the news stories where that happens. They give me hope for others.
My in-laws across the street neighbors have Covid. They’re in their mid-60’s. They flew out west (with a couple of their adult kids and a few of their grandchildren) to see one of their parents in the hospital. Other relatives flew in from a Southeastern state. None of them were vaccinated. They were reluctant, not antivax (they were just waiting for FDA approval). Now all of them are sick. The children don’t seem to be too bad but the neighbor and his wife can’t walk very far before they lose their breath. It’s sad and so unnecessary. At least they’re all still at home and we’re keeping our fingers crossed that it stays that way.
Per the discussion earlier where I mentioned that it seemed like people could go get a booster on their own if they wanted to. Seems like it’s a thing amongst some J&J recipients. Note that I’m not expressing an opinion either way, just sharing info.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/26/health/covid-19-vaccine-should-you-get-additional-dose/index.html
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My friend got J&J is was considering getting a booster of Pfizer or Moderna as she’s traveling out of the country next week. She has a friend who also got J&J, and friend’s father is a doctor so they both are following his advice to wait for now but to stay on top of it.