Vaccine reluctance & General COVID Discussion

From the article:

“We started hearing a lot about breakthrough bleeding, from people on long-acting reversible contraception, people on gender-affirming hormones, and postmenopausal people who were years and years out from their last period, sometimes decades out,” Lee says.

This researcher indeed had her own episode but it wasn’t a post-menopausal issue. She was using Mirena.

Apparently the research on this subject is just beginning. The article mentions recent studies that affirm the role immune cells play in the menstrual cycle. That researcher also had this to say:
" Even if the disruption to the menstrual cycle is minor and transient, people taking the vaccine have a right to know if it might temporarily alter their cycle, so research determining that once and for all should be done, says Alice Lu-Culligan, an MD-Ph.D. candidate who studies immunology and reproductive health at Yale University: “That’s a very simple question that they deserve to have an answer to,” she says. “But at this time we really don’t have an understanding of those changes.”

ETA: the academic credentials of the two researchers is that they are both biological anthropologists. This field requires a knowledge of statistics and advanced biology. You are correct that it is not strictly “medical research” but is an interdisciplinary field.

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@bluebayou

Even knowing that children seem to do better than old people with covid, I still cannot fathom why the prospect of their children becoming infected with covid is not a frightening thought. Why wouldn’t parents want to do everything they possibly can to protect them?

As of Tuesday, an average of 192 children with Covid-19 were admitted to US hospitals every day over the past week, CDC data shows.

That’s a 45.7% increase from the previous week in daily new hospitalizations among Covid-19 patients ages 0 to 17.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/07/health/children-covid-19-protection/index.html

And yet many parents are livid at the thought of their children being required to wear a piece of cloth on their face at school to help reduce their odds of becoming sick.

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As the mom of two kids who have had chronic health conditions since they were very young which still plague them today (over 20 years later), I think parents that don’t do all they can to protect their kids are very short sighted. Everyone suffers and some of those kids may go on to be permanently disabled and unable to work or need lifelong medical care.

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I work with pediatricians and follow many from across the country on social media - their feeds and comments are grim and their waiting rooms and hospitals are full with sick children.

I don’t know why for some people the benchmark of COVID - for adults or kids - is that “it’s not that bad, you can/will survive” - who wants to have that be your benchmark for your child “well, they should survive”??!

I CANNOT when I see (and boy is it rampant now on school message/comment sections) parents being so against their kids masking for school. They want in person AND they want no masking. No words.

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I’m almost starting to believe that the government has determined their best option is to let delta simply run its course. I see no sense of urgency from our leadership. I watched an interview this morning with the director of the NIH and while he reitterated the dangers of delta his only “Big” updates were that:

  • When is comes to vaccine approval (Pfizer) the FDA is “on it” 24x7 and should be done in no more than a month. But the vaccine is 100% safe (What the…?)

  • When it comes to booster policy the panel is meeting this Friday (Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday must be out because they need to pick up their laundry and other such errands).

  • The military will require the booster by Sept 15 or the date of vaccine approval whichever is first.

So, no real sense of urgency. So in the words of a great philosopher “What, me worry?”

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Are you saying that “the government” should be directing or influencing the determinations/conclusions of the FDA?

As for the FDA, if they are working on it “24/7”, that seems like a sense of urgency to me.

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Agree. We don’t know the long term effects. Could there be severe cardiomyopathy requiring transplant 10-20 years from now? Cancer (likelihood low)? We know Epstein-Barr virus (EBV), human papillomavirus (HPV), Hepatitis C (HCV), human herpesvirus 8 (HHV8), there are probably more but these are the ones that pop into my mind right away, cause certain types of cancer. There’s no way to know what this virus can/will do and our kids may live another 80 years or so, lots of time for something to pop up

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What I’m saying is that this is what we’ve been hearing for a few months now. IMO, they are behind the curve. Not sure if it’s an outdated process, antiquated equipment, of lack of head count, this doesn’t sound like a war-footing effort ( a’la WWII). It also does not help the cause that the NIH director actually called out the need to inspect vaccine facilities. The same facilities that have already produced and delivered over 500 million doses to the US government.

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The typical FDA process would take years not months.

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But these are not really typical times are they :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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I’d rather them take the time to get it right. If they rush it due to outside pressure, they will lose all trust.

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Indeed. In normal times, most everyone would be vaccinated by now, and masking/social distancing would have been an apolitical no-brainer.

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I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but I was responding to the data that UCB posted showed. It was ratios of full population and decades of data on polio. At that time, polio was known with near certainty to hit young children (under 5) hard. As of the past few weeks, we’ve only seen that Delta hits young kids hard. The first strain barely touched the little ones. (Yes, the next variant could be even worse – or not.) So, we have a few months worth of numbers to compare to years worth of polio data.

But as we all know, we have no vax (yet) for the little ones. So, what is left to protect them? If masks in school are the answer, where is the science, the data for the vaccinated (12+) and the unvaccinated? Or, if there is no data (yet), let’s report that mask are being required over an abundance of caution, i.e., a preventive measure.

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My young relatives have all attended schools which strictly enforce masking. One school has kids mask and face shield. Both schools have had no in-school transmissions and kept covid from detailing these kids educations. I wish mire schools were similar.

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I’m not sure if this article has posted here but this might help some non-vaccinated folks who have had COVID already change their minds.

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The problem with your anecdote (and I’ve read many opinion pieces passed off as news articles parroting the same) is there is no control group - no comparison to spread in a school that didn’t mandate masks.

There’s now talk about fitting kids with N95 masks since cloth masks don’t stop aerosols. Smdh…

Maybe it is just me, but it sure sounds like you are you are gearing up to continue to doubt the science even after the fda gives final approval for the vaccines.

If not you then others. Once the fda approves, the usual suspects will move the goalposts, call the approval into question and continue to doubt the science.

This isn’t about the science. It hasn’t been about the science for a long time now.

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I wonder if this would be true since there is still some international travel going on and not every country has as much access to vaccines.

I’m vaccinated…so you are reading me wrong. I am worried about long term implications and I also see where the :science" changes for political reasons.

I would rather not see the FDA rush the process just in order for gov to issue mandates. I hope we get it right.

Exactly. The folks who have supposedly been waiting for full FDA approval–ostensibly because they were going to trust that–were doing so because they didn’t like that the development was rushed. Now they are calling for more rushing? On the post vaccine data analysis? hmmm

10+ years in development. The largest sample size ever in vaccine trials. More data from millions worldwide who are 6+ months post vax. Deaths now 99.99+% in the unvaxxed population. Unprecedented number of children in hospitals.

No amount of evidence is ever going to be enough for the conspiracy crowd.

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