Vaccine reluctance & General COVID Discussion

[Mwfan1921]

Here is the link:

https://twitter.com/fperrywilson/status/1349449843471646720

[bluebayou]

while perhaps true for a new population, we’ve already vaccinated ~50% of the population, so that chart needs to be adjusted for the vaccinated and unvaccinated. And don’t forget the millions who have already had covid, with whatever ‘natural’ immunity they gain. (Perhaps some quant folks on cc can figure out the math!) As Dr. Wilson says in the Jan-21 medscape video that you posted, vaccines are the key to reducing transmissibility. (Note that he was speaking of the Alpha variant back then, not the Delta.)

[shawbridge]

Very surprising. Every PhD I know (and I know a lot) is vaccinated and did so as soon as possible, though the one very conservative one whom I mentioned wanted to make sure he and his wife got the J&J versus mRNA. But, my peer group does not a sample make.

[CTTC]

@bluebayou

Yes, the vaccinated can get Delta, but are the symptoms mostly minor (such as really bad colds with low fever) or are they more serious? Haven’t seen CDC publish anything to that effect. (which, IMO, they should.)

This is my issue. I’m not willing to “learn to live with covid” until there is more information. This is why I have NO patience with the antimaskers/antivaxxers, and why I think there should be widespread mask mandates/capacity limitations/social distancing requirements once again. I did the right thing (as did many), and am sick and tired of the loud vocal (I hope!) minority dictating what happens to the rest of us. Mask up, roll up, grow up. The CDC made a big mistake in not counting breakthrough infections unless there was hospitalization or death. If they aren’t counting them, they aren’t interested in long covid that results from them. I am glad the NIH is studying the issue, but how long will that take? We must depend on data from other countries.

[mynameiswhatever]

The College Fix is not exactly ideology-free. In fact, just under its masthead, its slogan is “Your Daily Dose of Right-Minded News and Commentary from Across the Nation” (emphasis in original):

The College Fix

As some folks might say, res ipsa loquitor.

[snowball]

While not necessarily antivaxxers, this group is antimask. I guess these parents want their kids to be guinea pigs to see how many get Covid :

Georgia school district plans mask-optional campus

[bluebayou]

Well you (and everyone else) are gonna have to ‘learn to live with covid’. There are zero health professionals/scientists who say it will ever go away. #CovidZero is a great soundbite, but is scientifically impossible.

In the history of humankind, we have eliminated two viruses, and both of them were isolated to hosts, i.e., smallpox only affected humans, so by vaccinating nearly 100% of the world… (We also eliminated a virus that affected livestock.) In contrast, covid is believed to jump species and unless we can vaccinate animals…

I too have no patience with the antivaxxers, but have a different take on the solution. Let Darwin take its toll. Meanwhile, instead of wasting cycles arguing about mandated masks (absent any scientific data), the government should spend its tremendous resources educating the reluctant and coverting them to a maybe and then to a jab.

[MACmiracle]

@splash1

It wasn’t me, but it’s a great question.

I finally figured out who raised this great question and I am going to quote it all here because maybe someone will be visiting here and will also benefit from thinking about it.

@Mwfan1921

I know you have thought so much about all of this, but I wonder if people would feel differently if they knew/believed covid is never going away?

Sure we won’t always be at a peak of infections, but the most likely scenario is that every year people are going to die of covid…for the rest of our lives, our kids lives, etc.

It’s just not realistic that there will ever be a covid free world again…many scientists think it will just become endemic, like flu. Maybe that could make some vaccine reluctant people more likely to choose different paths? I am feeling tired of all of this too.

[RookieCollegeMom]

I am not being snarky - I genuinely don’t understand why people wouldn’t do all they can to keep their children safe. We make our kids wear helmets, elbow pads, shin guards, gloves, goggles, etc. A mask hardly seems like a big deal.

[ganseliesel]

Eh…I’ll bite, since sub judice my case still seems to be…

I never said it was. As a matter of fact, I had no idea of its ideological inclination before I posted. I found the paper on medrxiv but I assumed most people would not read the full paper. So, I did a quick google search and found it on the college fix. However, as a preventative measure,- because (surprise!) I seem to have developed the gift of clairvoyance - I decided to go directly to the CMU website and, voilà, there it was. So, I posted. Different sites, same content. But go ahead, crucify me for my naivité. Seems the verdict has been rendered. Has the content changed since I posted both links? Doesn’t look like it. Do I owe you an explanation? No. But, in the spirit of civility, you are being given one. Would this imbroglio have happened had I only posted the CMU link? Because had I known that the college fix link would have caused such turmoil I would have only posted the direct medrxiv link! Reputable sources, silly me…what was I thinking?

Yes, I love Latin, too. And we can do this all day. But I don’t think most people care too much for it, so how about a pact? How about we don’t assume people’s intentions on here - as you so eloquently suggested? And well…Pacta sunt servanda.…

[mynameiswhatever]

The die was cast. Pax vobiscum.

[catahoula]

@mtmind

Outside Europe and the Americas, few places release data about excess deaths. No such information exists for large swathes of Africa and Asia, where some countries only issue death certificates for a small fraction of people. For these places without national mortality data, The Economist has produced estimates of excess deaths using statistical models trained on the data in this tracker (as explained in our methodology post). In India, for example, our estimates suggest that perhaps 2.3m people had died from covid-19 by the start of May 2021, compared with about 200,000 official deaths.

Yep… reporting varies by country… yet, Western countries stats have been routinely compared here to justify whatever idiotic policy needed justifying.

The idea that excess deaths would be about the only stat that might point to the truth, was pointed out about 12 mos ago. Still going to be confounded be the: overdose, suicide, missed cancer screenings, etc. that the favored policy response has delivered.

[mtmind]

Oh come on. You are trying way too hard to create uncertainty where none exists. Given the stakes, it is despicable. I have no idea why CC allows you to keep doing this.

[catahoula]

@mynameiswhatever

The CDC says data indicates preliminarily that it is more serious, in addition to being far more transmissible, which is an additional danger in its own right: Delta Variant: What We Know About the Science | CDC

When it’s proven to produce a higher mortality rate, let me know.

I’m kind of tired of worrying about: 'pre-print studies, ambiguous predictions by America’s doctor on the cable shows, being lied to for… hah, the good of the country…, the media going with every negative angle, and those who have eaten it all up.

[catahoula]

@mtmind

Oh come on. You are trying way too hard to create uncertainty where none exists. Given the stakes, it is despicable. I have no idea why CC allows you to keep doing this.

Good one: didn’t address the post, other than to say I’m the kind of person that shouldn’t be allowed to speak here.

[catahoula]

@bluebayou

I too have no patience with the antivaxxers, but have a different take on the solution. Let Darwin take its toll. Meanwhile, instead of wasting cycles arguing about mandated masks (absent any scientific data), the government should spend its tremendous resources educating the reluctant and coverting them to a maybe and then to a jab.

Seems fair enough.

Maybe the government will do us all a solid and assess the issue of natural immunity, when they’ve beat the vaccine horse to death.

[splash1]

Over 5,000 students quarantine or isolate because of Covid in Florida school...

Over 5,000 students and hundreds of school employees in just one Florida district have either tested positive for Covid or potentially been exposed to the coronavirus, school officials announced.

[catahoula]

@mtmind

In February, the same “JH quality doctor” wrote a WJS OpEd claiming we’d reach herd immunity by April. He used the same specious reason you are peddling here. I hate to even link it because he was obviously so wrong, but here it is so others might understand where your anti-vax advocacy takes us.

Not leaving a stone un-turned, since I’m here long after I called it quits.

I’ll stick around though, if you really want a exhaustive listing of all the ‘specious’ and factually incorrect predictions from some of the same public figures that have been (and still are) advising official response to Covid.

[scubasue]

Can’t we get an idea of how well natural immunity would have worked by looking at case rates and death rates in all the countries that have very low vaccination rates?

[Creekland]

I’m pretty sure we get a good idea at how well natural immunity works by comparing numbers of hospitalized and deaths now where people are vaccinated.

We have two groups - the vaccinated group and the control group. Everyone is participating in this Covid experiment whether they want to or not.

The data is out there for people to see. The results I see overwhelmingly support vaccines.