Vaccine reluctance & General COVID Discussion

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My friend’s son, the young man who got a severe case of COVID and has not been allowed to work at his regular air traffic controller duties, just replied to his mom’s post: “Is this a real post?” He must be livid. If I were he, I would take it as, “Son, if you had eaten better and taken lots of vitamins, you wouldn’t have gotten sick!” This is a healthy kid. And his wife, a fighter jet pilot instructor, also got a bad case. You think she’s in good shape?

MTA: Probably after reading her son’s reply, my friend deleted the thread. I think she’s one of those people who read something and post it without thinking of the consequences when friends and relatives say, “What the heck are you thinking?”

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My SIL won’t be getting a vaccine. She claims it’s because she has some autoimmune diseases, but I would think that should make her more interested in getting vaccinated. I think it’s because her boss the chiropractor - who doesn’t use masks at his practice - has convinced her not to get vaccinated. Whatever, it’s her body. However, she plans to come visit this summer. She hugs everyone (even during Covid) and tends to stand very close to people. I told D that she needs to talk with her pediatrician about whether she should avoid taking her baby around SIL. We are not at herd immunity. It’s fine to choose not to get vaccinated, but it has consequences.

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I think you are on to something.

The below calculator from JHU can be used to calculate risk.

https://covid19risktools.com:8443/riskcalculator

People are doing an assessment of risks of vaccine vs risks of COVID. Some conclude COVID risks outweigh vaccine risks and others conclude the vaccine risks outweigh COVID risks.

I know people on both sides of the issue. The vaccines are new and not fully FDA approved yet and that is a big consideration for some people in their risk calculations given their specific low risks of serious illness and death.

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Our good family friend says his sister and her sons (early 20’s) won’t get vaccinated. Our friend told her that her family is not welcome to come visit them this summer and come on their boat if they are not vaccinated. As @kelsmom said it’s fine to choose not to get vaccinated, but there can be consequences. Our friend is a researcher that worked on the mRNA vaccine protocols.

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That calculator estimates the risk of death only. COVID-19 has a fairly high rate of long term after-effects (probably around a third), some of which can be severe enough to diminish quality of life afterward (e.g. difficulty breathing that limits physical activity).

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Yes. I don’t understand why more people don’t get that. It’s been publicized enough.

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Long term after-effects seem to be publicized much less than deaths, and research on the rate and severity of long term after-effects seems to be relatively limited compared to research on death rates.

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It looks like Alabama has the lowest percentage on that map at 20.6%. As far as I know there are plenty of vaccines available so I’m guessing the rate can be attributed to reluctance. I know several people that have been vaccinated, but a whole lot more that haven’t. My son is finishing his 2nd year of college and works at university health services. He has had both doses and helped work a vaccine clinic at the university last Saturday.

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Yes, and there are people that have developed long haul type issues after getting the vaccine. It’s just not published. As one of those people put it - “they don’t want to see us.” FB took down a page where some were sharing their experiences. Why did FB do that?

Downplaying risks is not helping make reluctant people feel more comfortable about it. It just makes them even more suspicious. They are thinking - I now know some information is being hidden, why and what else don’t we know? Many of them already don’t trust the media, the government, politicians in general, or the ever-changing, in their view often illogical, guidance. Some closer to the fence may ultimately decide they are ready but want more information and some of that requires more time.

Maybe that’s another difference with polio. Maybe back then more people had more trust in the “system”.

People who don’t want the vaccine are aware of health issues from Covid, they just feel that their odds of that don’t outweigh their discomfort with the vaccine. It’s a pick your poison, the devil you know a little or the devil you know even less issue for them.

Remember, they are not as afraid of COVID as the people who couldn’t wait to get the vaccine. Many have been going about their lives, sometimes without masks, for a year. People are in different places on the COVID is Contagion or a Cold continuum. Some people can accept people being in different places and others can’t. It is sad to see it driving people apart.

OP originally asked what can people do to convince the reluctant. I just see “yah buts,” and “they need to be forced” arguments.

Based on what I see and hear, if the pro-vax people want to change the opinions of non-vax people, they will need to change their approaches. Current approaches don’t seem to be moving the needle any further. Has anyone asked them what it would take for them to agree to get the vaccine?

In my purple state where all 16+ have been eligible, a little < 50% of the eligible have gotten 1st dose and there are plenty of unfilled empty appointment slots available, which indicates the people who want vax have already gotten it and vax/not vax split is pretty even. We are not looking at a situation of just isolated hold outs. It also suggests that the opinions on CC, which tend to lean pro-vax, are not necssarily reflective of the general population (that or the not-vax people on CC are mostly keeping quiet).

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It could also be that we have not made it convenient enough yet, and that there are remaining obstacles. In NYC, anyone 16+ can walk in to a city site now. I am sure that will help. When the vaccine is readily available for walk-ups at the grocery store pharmacy, and once community outreach groups reach people in-person to talk about their concerns, the rates will go up. My husband has been doing home visits to shut-ins. People are organizing vaccine clinics at soup kitchens, homeless shelters, food pantries, office buildings, movie sets, etc.

Education will take time, but it is already happening. I speak passable Spanish, so I’ve been booking appointments for recent immigrants. Sometimes, all they need to know to feel okay about it is that I got the vaccine, as did my kids, parents and in-laws. Sometimes they have more questions. They listen. Most of the time, the biggest obstacle is fear of giving out personal information, especially on the internet, whether they are documented or not.

When they are asked for their health insurance info, many people do not trust that they won’t be billed. CVS is asking for Social Security numbers, which makes people worry about identity theft. People don’t understand that they can refuse to give this info and still have the right to get the shot.

It is great to see how many people are willing to talk to the hesitant about their concerns (in person, at church, school pick-up, or in a city park. Not on Twitter). Many people may have lost faith in government or industry as our population has grown, but they have not lost their trust in another human being who is patient and who cares.

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There are still people who don’t wear seat belts in cars, get in the car to drive after drinking, and start vaping/smoking even after all the facts are out there. I don’t see people refusing vaccines to be any different when it comes to knowledge affecting actions. If one doesn’t “feel” it’s a concern to them, it’s not.

Laws will change the behavior of some for my examples. Vaccine requirements for cruises or colleges, etc, will affect the changes of some with the vaccine, but one will never get everyone who can to get it.

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This should be illegal. SSN haven’t been allowed to be used for medical identification for 20+ years. There is NO purpose to giving the number.

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CVS asked for my driver’s license, not my SSN. Perhaps they ask for them if folks don’t have a license?

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But a SSN can’t be used for identification. It is used for taxes and credit. It used to be used regularly for insurance, and often the insurance number was the primary insured SSN with an extra number or letter. They used to be used as a student ID number.

That was changed a long time ago. I never give my SSN on dental forms, at the doctor’s office, when filling out forms for my kids to play sports. CVS should know better.

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My kids both had their shots at CVS and weren’t asked for SSN. Their drivers licenses were barely glanced at, nothing was written down off of them. The only information I gave them for my kids was health insurance when they signed up for appointment and that was voluntary.

Maybe there is a difference between states or a miscommunication?

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I had my vaccination at CVS and recently signed my son up to receive his. I was not asked for our social security numbers. This is incorrect information.

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Not heard of CVS asking for a SSN, and the vaccine is free. That said, while SSNs aren’t used on Medicare cards or other insurance cards these days, they may be asked for on intake forms because that’s one way that collection agencies find people who don’t pay their bills.

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I am just hoping that whoever sits near my kid on the plane is vaccinated. I bought two seats. If they remove the mask requirement I might try to buy the third. Expensive visit but worth it.

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perhaps they changed their policy. Back in late March when I setup appointments for the elderly grandparents at CVS in Virginia, the reg form asked for SSN.

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When I signed up my in-laws in February at CVS in VA, they did not ask for SSN. But, all I entered in was their Medicare info, date of birth and answered a bunch of health questions.

I did not enter in any supplemental insurance info. I didn’t know if they had any. They probably didn’t know if they had any. (Getting FIL to read the Medicare ID number off his card was an ordeal all by itself.) The website said it’d be free if you had Medicare, so I figured why bother. Is that when it started asking for the SSN?

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