Vaccine reluctance & General COVID Discussion

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I feel so strongly that folks should be absolutely pounded over the head with this type of graphic (clear data showing different outcomes for vaxxed vs unvaxxed) in EVERY Covid announcement. Every day. Anytime a positivity rate, or hospitalization count, or any other metric is discussed. Everywhere. Not just the blanket “hospitals report the vast majority are unvaxxed” statement. I’m sure it’s available, if you specifically look for it. But the folks who need to see it aren’t looking.

Our governor (CT) tweets out statistics every day but this data isn’t included.

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CT provides info on percentage of breakthrough cases and hospitalizations in their daily report. They do not provide info for percentage vaxxed that die, at least as far as I know.

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Esp since it’s 94% unvaccinated in ICU, not 92%.

At my guy’s hospital they’re now adding a 4th ICU team. They’ve never had that before. One team is solely Covid - the others do everything, including Covid. They have twice the capacity in their ICU than they technically have room for and over half are there for Covid reasons. I just heard all about one idiot who tested positive and came to the ED, but wouldn’t wear a mask even standing around other people in the ED and knowing he was positive. He also demanded Ivermectin.

His GF (who takes care of recovery patients, including Covid) said they just had one who left for rehab after spending a year in the hospital.

There’s not a whole lot of sympathy in the hospital for those who come in unvaxxed. They don’t say anything to the patients, of course, but the biggest question is why followed by wondering if they thought their reasons were worth it now.

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For those reluctant to get boosters, it appears the UK has instructed its doctors to begin giving them at 13 weeks post vaccination.

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Not particularly surprising, but nonetheless an interesting NPR analysis on the polarization, misinformation, vaccination rates, and Covid deaths.

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6233

I just read that article. Very sad state we find ourselves in

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Nvm

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Regarding NPR’s “Misinformation is to blame”,
There are certainly legitimate reasons for not vaxxing. But for those that just don’t want to, the decision not to vax comes first, due to God’s will, anti-government sentiment, or whatever. The “misinformation” is then generated and perpetuated to justify their decision, agitate, etc. Misinformation doesn’t come first, so it is not to blame.

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I think this is not quite true.

What misinformation does is galvanize. Propaganda always exploits something that’s already there; it can’t work with nothing. But it gives people language, fellowship, the comfort of being able to pound a table and believe in the rightness of whatever it is they’re doing, etc. Certain people in this country made an active decision some time ago to learn from the best propagandists in the world, and they’re getting better at it as they go.

Foundational reading: Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes - Wikipedia

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Unfortunately, lots of people had no problems with vaccines until they heard repeated fake news on various media (covid is a fake disease, it’s not worse than the flu, vaccines are dangerous…) until it became a badge of honor not to get vaccinated. How widespread it is in the US (v. limited in most developed countries), and how geographically specific, points to more than basic anti-vaxx sentiment.

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Would one characterize the entire country of Soutth Africa, which has plenty of supply yet low rates, the same way? And the South Bronx as well? How about much of Europe? Interesting that you only cite your own state when vax rates are rarely above 75% anywhere. It might help increase vax rates if we could avoid any condescending attitudes towards the unvaxxed; Patronizing does not encourage vaccination.

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Germany, Austria and Germany are all implementing vaccine mandates so vaccine reluctance isn’t just a US issue.

There’s a certain segment of the population who doesn’t like being told what to do. They don’t like the nanny state. We can debate the wisdom (or lack there of) of their attitude but it’s not all misinformation. People make stupid decisions every day knowing the correct information: drive without wearing a seatbelt, drive too fast, drive drunk, drive while texting, smoke, do drugs, drink too much, eat junk food, don’t exercise, don’t take their medications, refuse to visit doctors or have cancer screenings just to name a few. Given that a remarkable percentage of the population historically passes on the flu vaccine each year I’m not surprised that there are still holdouts.

However I still believe that condescension and anger aren’t the way to go in terms of encouraging vaccination.

Some thoughts about ways to reach those still unvaccinated.

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I don’t mean the entire country of the US on average compared to all of the EU, but specific areas of the country v. the most developed (although if you want to compare some States to Bulgaria or Slovenia sure but I don’t think it applies).
AFAIK there’s no geographic concentration of unvaxxed people, where a whole Regierungsbezirke or a whole département shows stubborn vaccine reluctance the way some counties do in the US.
Germany is considered a laggard in Western Europe with 71% adults vaccinated; you can distinguish between former East and former West Germany, for instance but even in East Germany the worst district is Saxony with 61%; compare to Bedford county in PA, Adams in Ohio, Carroll in VA. (It’s difficult to compare including 12+ or under 12’s because vaccination for 12-18 y.olds has been open for less time than in the US and still isn’t open for under 12’s, so I’m just comparing adults to compare apples to apples.)
Vaccine mandates are being implemented because some countries are tired of “Typhoid Marys” contaminating others and threatening Christmas (some St Nicholas festivals or Christmas markets had to be closed). The choice these countries offer is actually what many here have advocated in the name of freedom: you’re free not to get vaccinated but you must live a life where that wouldn’t affect anyone, ie., you can’t go anywhere where there are people whom you could contaminate.
I understand there’s a social factor to it in the US but I don’t see how misinformation and fake news as consumed in each country aren’t a key variable.

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Germany’s vax rates are the same as those in France, Austria, Switzerland, and the UK; all hover right around 70%. South Carolina, which one poster keeps consistently disparaging, is at 52%. Yes, SC can and should do better, but we aren’t talking about differences in vax rates of 90 vs 10 or even 80 vs 20.
Does South Africa have a big misinformation problem to account for its 37% vax rate?

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Yes. But it also has a neglected and underfunded public health infrastructure, so vaccinations may not be as easy to get as you might imagine.

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This article was written 4 months after the vaccination campaign started in the US and 2 months after it started in Europe (with the first month hugely chaotic). Just from the timeframe its numbers would be logical, but there are specific additional issues for early vaccine hesitancy that clearly no longer apply and haven’t for months.
In March 2021, the US was ahead and more than 70% people freely intended to get vaccinated; then the country got behind despite the vaccine being free and having an impressive logistical rollout. Some areas went ahead with their plans, others joined them; and elsewhere, people changed their minds and refused to get vaccinated.

Beside the fact the article makes my point, I am not comparing whole countries. I am comparing specific geographic areas. There is no district in Europe where vax rates are in the mid 30s to mid 40s such as in the US. Low, in Europe, is “in the 60s”.
Please watch BBC, DW in English, or France24 (also in English) to understand how differently things are seen.
(Note that no one cares about local differences in the US. When the news speaks of the US, its in a laudative way; Dr.Fauci is cited as an international expert and the under 12s covid vaccine rollout is cited as an example. That’s about it. The focus is elsewhere.)

South Africa is a developing country. Median income is about $850 a month. Average life expectancy at birth is 58 years. Health care networks are not well-established, many have no easy access to vaccines. In addition, there is reasonable fear of government initiatives since a generation ago it was a dictatorship where population wellbeing was not a priority and in the past decade has known high levels of corruption. So we can’t compare the US to it, despite its being in the top 3 economies on the African continent. However, does misonformation thrive there? It’s highly likely. Didn’t it cause violence&massacres a year ago? If fake news can cause violence in ZA I don’t see why it wouldn’t cause vaccine hesitancy and antivax sentiment. Has there been a study? If so can you link it? I’m not a specialist of this world’s region so dontknow it the way I know Western Europe.
It may be interesting to compare vaccine hesitancy in ZA, Egypt, and Nigeria, three countries that are similar economically and face difficulties, than with the US.

Abour vaccine hesitancy: Vax rates, first dose 18+ (ie., indicating willingness to vaccinate yourself) is 71% in Germany (variation: 83% to 61%), 78% in France (variation: 74% in corsica, 77% for metropolitan low, 84% for metropolitan high); Spain hit its target of 90% eligible population vaccinated in September; outside the EU, it’s close to 89% overall in the UK.

There’s no report of districts in the 40s, let alone high 30s like some counties in the US.

Note: You can’t compare % for whole population since children under 12 can’t be vaccinated at all in the EU yet. In addition, when discussing vaccine hesitancy, it makes more sense to consider adults who make decisions themselves.

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i remember listening to an NPR broadcast, a year or two before the pandemic, in which they discussed a study that showed the antivax sentiment to be much stronger in Europe in general, and France in particular, than it is in the US. I will search for that study and/or broadcast later today.

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Last time I checked Romania, Bulgaria and Slovakia were all in Europe and had sub 40% vax rates. Not really sure the point of analyzing each small region-the South Bronx and Soweto probably share a similar vax rate as well. Vax reluctance is a world-wide problem and should be addressed as such.

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