I would suggest that you spend some time talking with immunocompromised people who’ve been trying to maintain their lives and health throughout this pandemic – you have a lot of misinformation there about what’s available to people and and how effective it is.
Locally, I’m following a healthcare worker who’s currently immunocompromised due to cancer treatment; she’s 3-vaxed and wears N95s, and is currently in the ICU with covid, hoping to avoid intubation.
A large percentage of the population is under 18 and effectively has no control over their own covid control. Another large slice is institutionalized in nursing homes and assisted living and also has limited or no control. You are misleading yourself if you believe that your level of control and immunity is anywhere near universal. That’s what the public-health people have been trying to make plain to you since March 2020. Large numbers of people depend on us to control spread of the virus, because they don’t and won’t have our level of defense.
The same is true, incidentally, of students in university housing, on- or off-campus. To say “you don’t have to go to college” is to deny reality: if they want decent jobs, most of them will need college, and they know that. To say “go somewhere else” is also to deny reality: that’s an option only for a fortunate few with lots of money and/or exceptional academic records.
I understand that you want to believe that people can bootstrap their way along through this and that we shouldn’t have to act on others’ behalf, but that’s just not how pandemics work.
One of my best friends is immunocompromised (leukemia) and found out he had a 2nd separate cancer during the pandemic. He has recently found out he is in remission but has done a fantastic job protecting himself so far by isolating himself during heavy spreading periods like this current one, but has also attended Atlanta Braves baseball games all season long through the World Series (which were packed) and still donates time to his Church’s soup kitchen during outdoor events. He is also in a support group of others going through similar health challenges and he swears that most in his group are living similar lifestyles. He wants to see everyone “masking up” (swears he has the best mask on the market) and following social distancing protocols, but also knows that he is responsible for keeping himself safe and will be the 1st in line when a 4th jab for the immunocompromised is available. This friend could easily never go out as he lives in a large home on over 10 acres of land, but continues to live his life with what he considers to be “reasonable precautions”.
I think part of the disagreements are cultural in nature as I just do not see that same level of precaution that you advocate from anyone that I know in the South, but I do know a couple of folks in other parts of the country who take many extra precautions (a couple of friends with toddlers). But even those parents hold themselves responsible for the welfare of their children and not counting on the “kindness of strangers” to protect their children and families.
That could well be. The northeast is much closer to Europe, or has been historically, in the sense of social responsibility and integration. “Public” has been a strong concept there.
OT wrt the Macron statement:
You’re right it’s a deliberate strategy where he intends to channel all the very angry, very frustrated vaccinated French citizens (his base is 100% pro vax). He repeated the term 3 times, explaining that when you’re irresponsible, you’re no longer a citizen.
(I actually agree that freedom is limited by not infringing on others’ freedom,etc).
However the full sentence is much stronger than “to p * off” people. This translation comes from a quote by Pompidou (subtext to Macron’s) who said " arrêtez d’emm les Français" which does mean “stop p* ing off the French”. However the full sentence, while referencing BMs and thus making it tempting to use another bodily fluid, is “expletive + make s.o’s life as miserable as possible” (not that they be emm, ie., p* off) - note the combination of “j’ai très envie de” (not “I wish”, “I want”, “I hope to” not even “I take responsibility for”: it’s either child-like glee or physical urge) and “jusqu’au bout” (to the -very-end). If he’d simply talked about p*off part of the population, it wouldn’t have warranted stopping proceedings in the Assembly (House). Such rhetorical points are often made, especially when the debates are televised. And of course a lot of reactions are partisan. But you don’t stop lawmakers at work because the president said a bad word: what he said is truly shocking, even if you sympathize with the feeling.
My main point though is that up until now there was no party in France that made it a political signal to be vaccinated or unvaccinated, save for fringe groups (we’re talking fringier than the 3 Trotskyist parties that get 1% or less ).
For committed antivax people it won’t change anything. But linking health and politics when it wasn’t a problem till then and ruining the work of physicians who’ve been trying to convince reluctant families isn’t right.
We can all see how politicizing the decision to get vaccinated or not has hurt the US.
It seems to me all leaders need to keep urging vaccination and make it easier to get vaccinated, not make it harder -and shouldn’t try to score political points with vaccines.
With the unvaccinated people I know, I would never think of saying “you’re an irresponsible, selfish moron”, even though I might think it, and certainly not if my goal is to get them to consider getting vaccinated.
Up until now in France you needed either a vax card or negative results from a same-day rapid test to go to cafes, theaters, restaurants, etc, attend games, and practice sports/go to the gym. Since most people wouldn’t pay for a test just to see a movie or eat out, the new requirement (rapid tests no longer an alternative to the vax card) is just formalizing what had become the norm. Masks are required everywhere inside except for kids 5 and under, and outside in high density areas. There are also quirky requirements that were enacted recently, such as “you can only drink your coffee sitting down at a table, not standing up at the counter”.
There is not a lot of research on delayed second doses, but some suggest that the end result may be even better, although she spent a longer time with the lesser one dose protection.
Well, there is a big controversy regarding Novak Djokovic in Australia. He is not vaxxed but had the virus about 6 months ago. I guess he won’t be able to play in the Australian Open this year!!
The NY Times has what I think is a very good analysis of why Macron said what he said:
“The French president was seeking to tap into a rich political vein: anger among the majority of vaccinated people at a minority who refuse to get vaccinated and disproportionately occupy hospital beds.”
He knew the rules though…the vaccination rules, the medical exemption rules, the visa rules. Doesn’t seem like he is getting much sympathy from Australians or other players, nor is Pro Tennis leadership lending any support at least for now…all of that speaks volumes.
I’m pretty happy they called BS on his “medical exemption” at the border. Maybe they asked for proof of his claim where the tournament organizers didn’t.
Oh, clearly a political choice and one that may work, too (always risky in France to be vulgar, but people are clearly exasperated with the 10% that remain unvaccinated – public opinion is 50-50 on the statement so far, so much broader disagreement than vachinated v. Unvaccinated or minority party v. majority party.)
However it’s a dangerous choice from a public health perspective.
(It might also be risky from a public safety issue, since antivaxx supporters aren’t Carebears in Franceeither, with many death threats sent to elected officials, defaced political offices, etc.)
Ultimately that controversy may be taken over by another one and we don’t know whether that will be a blip, a plus, or something that antagonizes independent voters.
But I don’t see how it helps convince people to get vaccinated (2 untapped pools are retirees in rural areas, who aren’t necessarily antivaxx but don’t see the point since they see few people and don’t suffer from not attending nonexistig restaurants, stadiums, and movie theaters; and 20-39 year olds, who again and again say they are not worried because they’re young, healthy, and fit.)
Italy just passed vaccine mandates for anyone 50+ (up to $1,700 fine).
Will be mandatory in Austria for anyone 14+, for 60+ in Greece.
Germany is hesitating on mandates: it would likely cause massive protests in the Eastern Länder.
The NYT found a good way to express the profanity though.
It was a HUGE discussion among academics, translators, and English language correspondents in France.
My father-in-law’s best friend, who my wife has known her entire life, proudly proclaimed he wasn’t “getting no lib government shot”. Said he’d “rather drink lib tears”.
MODERATOR’S NOTE: JerseyOptimist is no longer with us. It’s a reregistration of our friend from Florida who made so much trouble in the original COVID thread.
Remember that when somebody is trying to rile other users up, it’s most likely a tr0ll and his or her posts should be flagged. Thanks!
I gotta admit, my favorite posts are those that are not evidence-based but are full of such nonsensical jargon that I don’t believe that the poster actually agrees with what they’re saying, but instead puts it out there to see the subsequent responses. I truly hope this continues because it will make my night! I know, I need to get out more.
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belated thanks