In CA the waters are muddied as to what a Dr can discuss with a patient. A test case hasn’t yet been raised (AFAIK)
Would telling a patient that myocarditis and actually cardiac arrest (easy to find that info…staying away from politics) are a risk for young males who take the mRNA vaccines… be considered misinformation? It seems that in CA a physician can only safely parent the CDC guidelines when it comes to COVID …
Myocarditis risk relating to mRNA and Novavax vaccines is mentioned on the CDC web site.
Of course, the risk of myocarditis is much higher when getting an actual COVID-19 infection.
Another difficult point for doctors is that they are sometimes limited what they can do or say based on the health system that employs them. My pediatrician believes one of my daughters had an anaphylaxis reaction but was not able to recommend her not to get a second vaccine based on the hospital policy. She did, however, set her up to get the second vaccine under medical supervision. When it came to a time she could have had a booster, she could also not recommend against it, but simply reassured me that it probably wouldn’t benefit her. Pediatrician is also aware her sister also had an adverse reaction so she is in a tough spot with the health system’s rules.
Meanwhile, my mom’s previous doctor would not discuss the covid vaccine with her at all because she has a history of an adverse reaction to a vaccine and pre-covid medical waivers. If he tells her to get vaccinated knowing her history and something happens, he’s responsible. If he tells her not to and she gets covid, he might feel responsible. The whole situation scares me as she is elderly and frail. And did he prescribe Paxlovid when she tested positive on a medical screening? No, because he thought she would be okay since she was asymptomatic. At that point, she changed doctors.
I also have a friend who had pericarditis which did not easily resolve and now has a scarred pericardium. She has also expressed dissatisfaction over her doctors willingness to discuss risks.
It’s not easy for doctors now. But certain patients really need specialized guidance.
What does her current physician say to her about COVID-19, vaccines, and Paxlovid? Does the current physician also avoid the topic for the same reason that the previous one did, or does the current physician try to tell her all of the trade-offs with context of her specific medical history (and perhaps whether some of the vaccines are more or less likely to trigger adverse reactions in her)?
Her new physician prescribed Paxlovid. My mom had already met with her once because she was considering leaving the old practice. When she got the positive test result, she called her then existing doctor because he had assured us that he would prescribe it and he he could be reached anytime if she needed it. We were shocked when he said no, so she called the new doctor.
I was at the meeting with the new doctor and the risk benefit of the vaccine was not discussed. My mother gave her history of an allergic reaction and that was it. My mother was dealing with another serious health issue so the new doctor probably had to prioritize.
Holy wow. My reaction is between screaming anger and deep sadness.
The constraints put on docs is huge. Very OT…but…I have been getting an annual #30 of Xanax. Used for travel. One or two days before and then one or two after arrival. Helps with sleep before hand and knocks me into the time zone once there. Last year PCP gave me a huge lecture on this medication, and grilled me on whether it was used for anxiety. I reassured her NO, just travel. Grilled me on my specific plans, informed me of the scrutiny all prescribers were under at this time. Finally, reluctantly agreed to give me #20.
Meanwhile a friends domestic pet gets #90/month. No questions asked. They alway have a few extras.
We are currently in an environment where the government has once again insinuated itself between a woman and their doctor when it comes to intimate decisions. And - many are in an uproar.
Yet, here…with your examples, with the hushing of dissenting COVID input…there is what seems to be an imposed silencing…
Sigh.
OT also, but the first time I was prescribed Xanax for travel, I was given two. One half to see how it affected me pre-trip. One half for trip there and one half for trip back. With one leftover. Lol.
I was on a plane that went on fire many years ago so I am not a good flyer, but Xanax gives me a headache so I try to avoid it. But it is very helpful for sleep when adjusting to time zones and I don’t get the headache if I take it for sleep.
ETA: I guess I could keep this on topic by saying if I had taken Xanax, I probably would have been successfully vaccinated. Ridiculous but true.
One possibility is metabolic syndrome / metabolic dysfunction. We already know that Covid outcomes in those with T2D, obesity and hypertension can be pretty bad. We also know that in some cases the Covid infection can accelerate or even contribute to a diagnosis of T2D. What we may not know quite yet is how being insulin resistant or prediabetic - many in this country are both w/o even knowing it and unfortunately the estimates of the US population in this category are alarmingly high - can impact a Covid outcome. Hopefully that information will be forthcoming over time. Just conjecturing here, but it would explain how otherwise “healthy” people can get a severe bout of Covid. They aren’t actually healthy - they just hadn’t yet been diagnosed with a metabolic disorder.
Perhaps that may be an explanation for some, but not all. The two people I know who had the worst cases of COVID-19 (including medium and long COVID to go with a miserable acute phase) did not have metabolic issues, nor were they otherwise in high risk groups (and age 20s and 30s). Both did get COVID-19 (presumed ancestral) before any vaccines were available.
Oh for sure - some bad outcomes may well remain a mystery. Unfortunately, something hidden, such as lean-non-alcoholic fatty liver disease in a “youngish” person (as one example), can manifest itself w/o obvious symptoms for years, but along comes a virus that triggers or exacerbates inflammation . . . Fatty liver disease is apparently not only associated with a higher risk of testing positive, but may also be a risk factor for severe Covid. And not all who have fatty liver disease are “fat” on the outside.
Saw this today and found it interesting. Toward the end I was a bit shocked to see that they had primarily considered Covid a Respiratory virus, but then I saw that they figured out at least a year ago that it was so much more. My son’s been telling me that for quite some time. The blood clots from it can affect anywhere and for well after one has recovered from Covid. The article is new. The study was published in Dec. They’ve at least unofficially known more for a bit of time.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05542-y is the study referenced (but not linked) in the above page. Note that these were all patients who died with a COVID-19 infection (lasting 4 to 230 days).
The entrance of SARS-CoV-2 virus into the brain may be related to the observation of neuropsychiatric issues after COVID-19: Long COVID and neuropsychiatric manifestations (Review) - PMC
The abstract starts with this:
“There is accumulating evidence in the literature indicating that a number of patients with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) may experience a range of neuropsychiatric symptoms, persisting or even presenting following the resolution of acute COVID-19. Among the neuropsychiatric manifestations more frequently associated with ‘long COVID’ are depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder, sleep disturbances, fatigue and cognitive deficits, that can potentially be debilitating and negatively affect patients’ wellbeing, albeit in the majority of cases symptoms tend to improve over time.”
Thank you for being a voice of reason here. It’s odd that a thread on vaccine reluctance has become a thread where people refuse to actually consider the data.
Many of the studies I read have data that suggest x and yet in the conclusion the researchers decide the data has suggested y. Y is always one additional shot.
Sorry for the late reply, I got my 4th Covid shot on April 2, 2022, and was exposed on June 25, tested positive July 2, though I felt sick the day before.
Links to the studies, and what do you consider to be “x”?
I’d like to see these too.
I’m in Japan right now. Such a difference! There have been signs in most towns that masking outside is not required, at least if it’s not crowded, but nearly everyone still wears masks, though children are often unmasked and the 20 and under crowd occasionally have noses showing. In the places where it’s been cold up north, the mask actually does make a noticable difference in staying warm, but I will confess that wearing a mask 12 hours a day, is a lot less pleasant than for a few hours a week. I have a more comfortable on the ears, but less effective mask that I wear outside here and sometimes inside. The newest batch of KN95’s we have are much tighter than the same brand was before. The N95s are actually more comfortable, but a pain to get on and off, so I use them for train and airplane rides.
Data from Israel on the Pfizer vaccine (targeted against the ancestral virus, not the bivalent version) indicates that while the third dose increases neutralizing antibodies both short and long term over the second dose, the fourth dose increases neutralizing antibodies only for the short term (about 3 months), with the longer term neutralizing antibody level and vaccine effectiveness being about the same as after the third dose.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2211283
At this point I’m more concerned about not being sick for weeks on end or getting long Covid. I had a pretty mild case, took Paxlovid, no rebound. So as far as I am concerned the vaccine did its job.
