Why? I don’t expect people to thank me for being a decent human being.
8 Likes
Rather than quibble over who should be thanking whom, can we all at least agree that the vulnerable are by no means out of the woods yet? I’d go further by suggesting that perhaps they shouldn’t be relying on others for their own protection but should be taking strict measures to protect themselves. Looking at the data - and again, it might be a lag issue - it appears that total average daily infections are about 5% of what they were at their peak, while total deaths are at about 10%. That means that deaths still continue to decrease more slowly than infections.
The good news is that both infections and deaths are down to about where they were in late March of 2020 - a time when the pandemic was just getting started here in the US.
Because Sweden has 100% health coverage and Maryland does not. Sweden also has much lower rates of obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, illiteracy, poverty, disadvantaged racial minorities, etc. etc. that have proved so deadly to vulnerable populations in the U.S. during Covid.
8 Likes
Hmmmmmm, Italy has those same advantages as Sweden, and they locked down, but…
1 Like
You aren’t looking at side by side countries that would normally get roughly the same amount of traffic in and out. You’re cherry picking to suit what you want to see.
And of course, Italy was one of the hot spots in the beginning when no one knew quite what to do causing a lot of mistakes compared to what we knew later with experience. It’s well known that people died who otherwise might have been saved due to the onslaught. Italy also didn’t do their lockdown until they were well into the pandemic and even then, it was well publicized that many didn’t adhere to it at first. Shutting the barn door after the horse has left isn’t all that effective - similar to laws some people choose to ignore.
Italy’s healthcare system might be more focused on maintaining wellness as opposed to handling health crises. The US is particularly good at the latter compared to many other countries. We still had a huge number of deaths here, of course, but that’s due in part to a higher percentage of at-risk populations.
Well, there’s an offsetting consideration to the factors you state. Sweden has a slightly older average population than the US. When you look at who died from Covid here in the US, the overwhelming factor that jumps out is advanced age with a notable leap by the late 50s. Now clearly, that attribute will be correlated with poorer health and underlying co-morbidities (asthma, diabetes, obesity, etc). Haven’t looked carefully at Sweden’s data lately but in the beginning the people who were dying were those of advanced age and, all else equal, they will also be less healthy than a younger person. However, the additional difficulty about being elderly, even if you are not suffering specific underlying health issues, is that your immune system isn’t working as efficiently as that of a younger person. It’ll simply be harder to fight off an infectious virus. Sweden, so far, has experienced nearly a third fewer deaths (normalized by population size) than the US despite having an older population.
1 Like
Italy was certainly caught off guard at first. They then locked down though and the virus eased up (perhaps naturally) then came back with a vengeance even in the midst of a lockdown. I doubt the majority of Italy’s citizens were ignoring the restrictions after their tragic initial scene. Of course in all areas there are some that don’t follow rules. In the end the virus came back just as strong and did what it wanted.
In the height of the initial New York City wave 66% of hospitalized covid patients were mostly isolating themselves.
I just don’t think our restrictions or mask usage were ever going to really stop this virus. Slow it, yes, flatten the curve, yes, but not stop it until the majority were exposed. Thankfully we have effective vaccines now and will hopefully reach herd immunity through that process.
1 Like
Isn’t the possibility of infertility issues due to getting covid equally concerning? Aren’t people concerned about the effects of long covid on fertility? Does it only matter if people die?
As for sweeping all these stories of alleged vaccine effects under the rug, I think there are enough antivaxxers out there to keep those rumors alive and well. Anyone who is looking for medical professionals to back up their antivax rationale is welcome to listen to the likes of Sherri Tenpenny.
A comment was made up thread about how the old folks should be grateful to us for the sacrifice we made for them. That boggles my mind. I’m thinking those who lived through WW2 and fought in Korea and Vietnam and who walked over the bridge in Selma might deserve some thanks.
Another comment made up thread was about NY’s death rate being so high. Anyone remember what happened in NY in March and April of 2020? The high death rate was due to a dense population being the perfect place for a deadly virus to take hold, and for which there were NO good treatments at the time. I am amazed at how people love to twist data to suit their agenda. As Mark Twain said, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Folks, you’ll be vaccinated whether you like it or not (see linked article above from @MaineLonghorn .) Just choose your method. You can get covid, a disease which attacks every organ in your body, has killed a lot of people, permanently harmed others (my friend’s husband who had to endure liver transplant after covid comes to mind), and is causing lasting effects in still others, or you can get a rigorously tested vaccine that has harmed very few people. I’ll trust the stats that work with my agenda, which is that the vaccines are the safer bet in all scenarios, except for those who can’t have vaccines for various reasons.
13 Likes
Is that a concern? Haven’t read about that as a long term Covid issue but if it is then yes I’m concerned.
I’m tired of the whataboutism. Every time someone brings up a possible long term vaccine side effect the immediate response is but what about that issue coming from Covid. Yes of course any vaccine side effect could also come from getting Covid. There is still so much we don’t know about what the virus and it’s long term effects. But we also don’t know about long term effects from the vaccine because it’s only been in use for little under a year. Just because no vaccine has had long term effects in the past doesn’t mean it can’t ever happen and that people don’t have the right to be concerned. Is it that difficult to admit that we don’t know what we don’t know?
My family is fully vaccinated. I’m sincerely hoping that these vaccines turn out to be incredibly safe and effective for decades because we are going to (potentially) need them to coexist with Covid for the foreseeable future. But the hostility aimed at people who have the audacity to question “the science” is ridiculous. Science should be questioned. It’s the point of science. To question, explore, investigate. Not just blindly accept.
Exactly! If you want the vaccine get it. You’re now protected. For those that don’t choose to get it that’s their choice. They live with the consequences just as the vaccinated will live with whatever possible side effects occur in the future. Nothing is 100% either way.
As an aside I was just in Nashville a few days ago. Unavoidable trip. First time I had to fly and the airports and planes were packed. In the city No one and I mean no one is wearing masks there. Restaurants are packed with people standing around waiting to be seated. It was the first time I’ve been anywhere in over a year (full disclosure I’m a huge germophobe) and I was sincerely hoping that all those people were vaccinated even though I knew they probably weren’t. It wasn’t a pleasant trip for me. Even though I’m vaccinated I still find it hard to trust that it will protect me. I’m not anti-vaccine I just believe that people should be allowed the time to reach the decision to get it.
6 Likes
I hope you’ll come back in five years and admit that the vaccines were a success.
4 Likes
I’ll be happy to do that.
1 Like
We stayed in Nashville for a night on our way to NC. I thought I was in New Orleans at Mardi Gras. Not for me, aside from the whole COVID thing, at least as to staying downtown. But do want to mention that the only masks I observed were on restaurant/bar and hotel employees. If you are COVID averse, Nashville is not for you, particularly on a weekend.
Is there another area that is charming in terms of dining/things to do that isn’t completely centered around getting hammered??? Referring to Nashville specifically.
We stayed in Nashville during the height of the pandemic when we had no choice but to travel and no one was mask compliant even then. TN was the worst state in terms of masks we visited on a multistate drive from IL to FL.
Getting back to the effects of different lockdown strategies by states and regions…
Apologies if this has been posted before, but here is an interesting data set regarding seroprevalence of COVID antibodies in blood donors. Although obviously you cannot simply extrapolate exposure of the general population from blood donors, it is probably a decent proxy.
The data are lagged - March 2021 are the latest available. But they are useful because as of March 2021 the vaccine was not widely available for people <65, so the rates for the <65 cohorts are a good proxy for what percentage of the population acquired their antibodies through the disease itself.
The data show that nationally about 43% of people 16-64 had COVID antibodies, most of which must have been naturally acquired (73% of >65 had them, though presumably much of that was through at least one vaccine shot.) As of that date vaccination rates were about 13% (presumably skewed largely towards the elderly).
Just looking around a little, you can see different seroprevalence rates appear roughly correlated with severity of lockdown measures. A preliminary look shows that places with minimal lockdown like the Dakotas and some southern states were as high as 45-55% for the <65 groups. Other regions with extreme lockdowns like the San Francisco Bay Area and Seattle area were as low as 25-35% (>65 year olds showed much greater rates approaching 80% reflecting vaccine availability and willingness to be vaccinated). Most states and regions are somewhere in the middle.
Anyway, plenty of interesting data in there. Bottom line for me, again with the caveat that blood donors are not a perfect proxy for the general population, is that COVID was much more widespread than assumed as early as March 2021. If we are not already at herd immunity for all practical purposes now - three months after that data and with vaccination rates more than triple what they were - we are within an eyelash of it.
Interesting charts from the NYT this morning:
For reference, as near as we can tell, 0.0004% of people <18 have actually died from COVID in the US (also CDC data, I assume the doubling from the chart rate reflects higher deaths among ages 15-17).
3 Likes
To ease your concerns, I had Covid and some of my family members did as well and it was not at all bad. Low grade fever only. I basically loaded up on zinc, vitamin C and quercetin to build up my immune system. In his case, he is probably right. I have seen numerous reports that this vaccine has caused heart inflammation in young adults and the fact that he has some allergies, this may trigger an adverse effect. I would trust his judgment. Good luck.
2 Likes
Still unvaccinated here and disappointed…
I was eagerly awaiting news on Germany’s curevac because it did not use fetal stem cells in development or testing, and now I am so disappointed about the news on it’s relatively lower efficacy.
A friend in her sixties spent a week in ICU with pericarditis in the second week after getting a Pfizer vaccine. She had a stress test between getting the shot and being hospitalized. I heard it suggested that vigorous exercise should be avoided in the weeks following natural covid infection or getting the vaccine, and I wonder if the stress test contributed to the development of pericarditis. I think there’s a fear of talking about this because it could fuel vaccine hesitancy.
Meanwhile, the first time my friend went to the hospital feeling unwell with symptoms of pericarditis, she was sent home. Again, I think open communication about potential side effects could have helped in this situation, not for avoiding the vaccine but for prudent awareness of potential issues.
Has anyone done any research on Novavaxx’s adjuvant? That is one vaccine I am interested in, while still having reservations because it was tested using HEK293.
2 Likes
This gave me a little smile this morning. You want folks to stop bringing this fact up - a fact you admit is true - but want to let others keep their one-sided discussion going?
The bottom line fact at this point is that there can be problems with both, and so far, all the data shows the higher odds of problems are with getting Covid. This holds true for for mild problems as well as bad problems or death. It also holds true for long term implications years down the road.
It’s a very valid fact that needs to be brought up if people are in the pondering stage.
4 Likes
Honest question here. Has anyone seen any report that myocarditis has caused death or serious harm in any of the youngsters it’s been seen in? I only briefly talked about this with my medical lad and he said it’s almost always temporary.
Regardless, again, there have been more myocarditis cases reported with Covid itself, so nothing really “new” from the vaccine that isn’t seen with Covid.
1 Like