This organization exists because quackery is, unfortunately, a thing:
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Of course, the alternative experiment (getting COVID-19) is much more dangerous and unpleasant, including known (not just speculated) longer term effects.
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FWIW, claims are investigated by reputable sources. When they find something that appears to be solid, they say so, and, if believed to be necessary, stop the process to investigate further. Nothing is swept under a rug. There are, however, many things that arenât related.
My sibling is claiming sheâs had vax side effects for 9 weeks now. Interestingly enough, what sheâs claiming as lingering side effects she complained of often pre-Covid. The rest of our family doesnât doubt she had the typical side effects for 2-3 days or so. We yawn at the rest - or medical boy rolls his eyes. I can pull up texts from a couple years ago (if the phone keeps them that long) where she endlessly complains about her health issues. Same issues, but now she has a different âcause.â In fact, she knew the side effects were going to last for 6 weeks within a week or 2 of getting her second one. I have the text with her saying so. ESP I suspect.
We think her brain has convinced her itâs all true. Doesnât make it a vax side effect though.
My point is, we need to make room for people with different opinions. Educated, intelligent and thoughtful people can respectfully disagree. Neither needs to be wrong. Some people that want everyone to have the vaccine arenât willing to listen to other viewpoints and itâs frustrating. Health decisions are personal and we are in a place now where it seems to OK to insert your opinion into someone else decisions. Itâs not ok. Do I need to explain the genetic reasons that make me more hesitant to take the vaccine vs. getting Covid? Is it really your business? Does news of unexpected myocaritis and reproductive systems going haywire give me pause? Yes. And that needs to be OK since itâs my body youâre asking to protect your body.
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Interestingly enough, some of the same folks I know who are pro-vax choice for this reason are really anti-choice when it comes to having a baby. 
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And since the vaccines are available you should be able to choose which experiment you participate in.
Ironically those who had Covid and then were vaccinated may have the best protection of all.
âImmunity to the coronavirus lasts at least a year, possibly a lifetime, improving over time especially after vaccination, according to two new studies. The findings may help put to rest lingering fears that protection against the virus will be short-lived.
Together, the studies suggest that most people who have recovered from Covid-19 and who were later immunized will not need boosters.â
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Wow, that tells you something. Thatâs great.
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That matches far more about what I hear from those in the pipeline. I also suspect a decent fraction of those who arenât have legitimate medical reasons.
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I wonder if anyone reluctant ever listens to people like this man who ended up with a double lung transplant or if they just assume it wonât be them:
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Look, itâs just not a huge risk for a 40-something parent. Only 3.1% of all Covid deaths were from that age group and many other things have killed a lot more 40-something parents than Covid has in the same time period. The risk is quite disparate and depends on stuff like underlying comorbidities. Young people across the board will, indeed, bear some pretty hefty costs, but the benefit to their 40-something parents is pretty small.
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I have a young relative of the same age who got Covid last Nov. He still canât eat certain foods due to taste problems.
I know another young person of the same age who has continued to have painful swollen lymph glands that developed two days after receiving the first shot of Pfizer.
There will continue to be anecdotes resulting both from Covid and from the vaccine.
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The anecdotes that I have heard indicate that COVID-19 is far worse than the vaccines.
COVID-19: at least 2 out of 6 had longer term after-effects.
Vaccine: 0 out of all the people I know who got vaccine (dozens or hundreds) have had longer term after-effects.
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My mother is still dizzy 5 months after the vaccine.
A friend, 25 y.o. Male diagnosed with myocarditis after vaccine. Refuse to admit it could be related so they refuse to report it.
2 anecdotes related to the vaccine. I find it comical that some are arguing over whose anecdotes are showing which can be more serious.
Not arguing for or against the vaccine but people can and do make decisions based on what happens to the people around them. Anecdotal, but I would venture to say everyone has done it.
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Whatâs with all this â time for the elderly and vulnerable to show gratitude â? The ones I know are grateful and sacrificed plenty while serving our country when they were younger. Maybe you should show some gratitude to those who have chosen to get vaccinated.
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But not for people with false âfactsâ.
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Many here have no problem talking about what a particular states did or didnât do. Obviously there are people within states that do different things. In the end, from the data I showed, the different states really didnât have such different results.
Your talk about personal observations in NY is anecdotal. Thereâs plenty of anecdotal stories about many things and they usually get called out here as such. With that said, Iâm sure there are just as many stories of non masking in FL or TX. Iâm sure CA has both people that wear masks and do not. Looks like they have higher numbers this past winter for hospitalizations then the other three I listed. I bet they have better mask usage than TX. In the end did their lockdowns and mask usage make a big difference?
Your story about your uncle while tragic canât really be blamed on one unmasked person. Perhaps, but more likely it could have been any one of the hundreds of other individuals he was exposed to. Eating inside restaurants was risky. Many people cough without spreading covid. I have allergies and sneeze and cough a lot. I havenât spread covid to anyone. Itâs wrong to assume it was this one sole person when thereâs absolutely no evidence. Of course it is a opportunity to take a jab at someone for not exactly following the rules. It was always funny to see how it was a rule to mask up while in a restaurant unless seated. I hope most people can see the futility of that policy.
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Sure itâs anecdotal. But things like it, esp since itâs not the only one, prove not everyone in âmask requiredâ states wore masks as they should have which makes comparing A to B meaningless since some people masked in state B even if they didnât have to.
Then too, the virus wasnât spread evenly across the US, esp by designated state borders. There was a lot of luck involved. One could be inside in a crowd of thousands and if no one was contagious, they were fine. One could have a 10 minute talk with someone who was a superspreader and not be fine.
If one wanted real data, if itâs possible to get it, they would need to check with hospitals and see how many were admitted who followed the rules and hung around with those who also did vs those who didnât and compare numbers by age.
If people want to consider end numbers (as of now) between similar latitude and locations:
Swedenâs death per million is #35 in the world at 1431 and case count is #11 at 106,759 per million. They famously didnât lock down or take much in preventative measures (did some).
Finland is #118 in the world for deaths per million at 174 and case count is #116 at 16,955 per million.
Norway is #125 in the world for deaths per million at 145 and case count is #103 at 23,599 per million.
Both of the latter were well known for having very strict, enforced measures.
These are equivalent to our states size-wise and took stringent measures (or not) vs the US states where people still freely traveled a bit (worst numbers in PA were along our highways).
Those data points are very telling to me.
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Yes, I agree and stated that the virus was at different points in different areas. That hasnât stopped many here from calling out âredâ states for their less restrictive postures and possibly less compliance. I hear it all the time here. I showed examples from real data on hospitalizations how states that are routinely touted as being models to follow with regards to Covid reactions did no better than states that are routinely chided for not being as on board with restrictions.
I didnât say anything about other countries and their outcomes. Itâs not hard to pick two different countries and show all sorts of outcomes between them. As with states, the virus acts differently and at different times as it spreads. Even neighboring states/countries can have vastly different results. I work in a field with data as our product. Itâs very easy to make a set of data show a particular point by looking at it from different angles.
My home state, Maryland, has done pretty well regarding covid restrictions and compliance. Yet if you look at Marylandâs numbers its deaths are higher than Sweden at 1,589 per million and its cases are high too at about 78,000 per million. So, why didnât Marylandâs lockdown and compliance keep itâs death toll lower then Sweden that went about business as usual?
I agree, @bhs1978, that people tend to make decisions based on whatâs going on around them. Most donât pore over data and news the way that posters on this thread do. @ucbalumnus, I suspect that many use these anecdotes to confirm their prior on whether the vaccine is or is not safe. Very few are exempt from experiencing even a bit of confirmation bias.
One thing to remember: the vaccine is EUA. That does NOT mean that you or I or someone else wonât have a bad reaction. What it does mean is that, in aggregate, the benefits outweigh the costs.
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