Ok. Thanks. I was afraid I was missing something.
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Thanks. Sorry for the confusion. I just saw that blue M.
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To date, the best antibodies seem to be with those who had Covid and then got one vax shot afterward. Thereās hope this combo might lead to lifetime immunity vs immunity from Covid itself that wanes and the vaxes are still TBD.
The link was posted a day or two ago by myself and one other person (might have been on two different threads).
Thank you for sharing. I agree 100% with you. I prefer my kids to get covid over the vaccine. So far, one already got it and no issues. I also had it and felt fine. We have an acquaintance ( healthy and active) that ended up in ICU in a coma 2 days after the vaccine from a brain hemorrhage. After 2 months in the hospital, she is finally out, however, she can barely walk. I know she absolutely regrets taking the vaccine. I donāt think a virus that has a 99.9% survival rate for under 30 is worth the risk of taking a vaccine that is not even FDA approved. Anti-mandate as well here.
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One story like this is awful.
Multiply it by 3.8 million dead due to covid. Awful. Is it right to say more awful than this one rare story?
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Yes, itās like saying, āFlying is so dangerous! 180 people died in that plane crash!ā without mentioning that many, many, many more people die in car wrecks every day. āThe National Safety Council compiled an odds-of-dying table for 2008, which further illustrates the relative risks of flying and driving safety. It calculated the odds of dying in a motor vehicle accident to be 1 in 98 for a lifetime. For air and space transport (including air taxis and private flights), the odds were 1 in 7,178 for a lifetime, according to the table.ā (and if you eliminated private flights and just considered commercial flights, Iām sure the odds of dying in a plane crash would be even lower). This discussion IS relevant to vaccine reluctance. People just donāt understand statistics. 
Anecdotes are not data.
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Yes, but anecdotes from known misinformation sources tend to be looked at with suspicion (especially if āexclusiveā to those sources). I can think of no better way to discredit oneās story than to have it be reported first through such a source.
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There is a lot of territory between feeling fine with Covid and dying from Covid.
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Are you planning to variolate them with COVID-19 so that they can get it over with at a time of their convenience, rather than get it at some random possibly inconvenient time (e.g. getting sick enough not to be able to take final exams at school)?
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This thread is about Vaccine Reluctance (not necessarily forever refusal), and yet for each argument about why someone is reluctant it goes back to the 600K dead in in the US and long term Covid. I live with a reluctant person. He just wants more time as a healthy 20 year old. Could he get Covid and pass it to someone else who might fare worse than him. , maybe. Could he be one of rare 20 year olds to suffer greatly from Covid , yes, Could he be one of the folks who get a side effect from the vaccine, yes.
It irks me like the post above, for the kid who already had Covid, and is being forced by their university to get vaccinated. To ask an existing student who has already put time /effort/money into their education to be told do this or else you are not welcome , but vaccines that have applied , but have not yet received full FDA approval really bothers me. Enough of the students have gotten vaccinated. Also many universities are not forcing staff to be vaccinated.
But back to this. Just because someone is hesitant right now, does not mean that they are wrong. As much as I want my S to get vaccinated and I plead with him for my sanity, I cannot say he is wrong in his thoughts.
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Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
It looks like the J&J info you wanted to insert isnāt there.
I use the Lozier Institute that you mentioned as a resource. They are good for including sources for their information and details to help you understand problematic areas. I think they use a red, yellow, green coding system for vaccines and breakdown the areas for development and testing. J&J is the most problematic of the vaccines available in the US now, but, ideally, people concerned about this issue would like an option without any connection to abortion, despite various organizations coming out and saying they donāt believe itās ethically problematic.
I get you about the HeLa cells. Iāve thought about that, too, and the fact that there was no consent there either. I donāt like it, but I still have more discomfort with the idea of ongoing commercial gain in the trade of fetal body parts obtained through abortions, and particularly so if there are other options for development and testing.
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Itās not hesitation thatās the problem. I understand hesitation for the most part.
The problem is the misinformation and fear mongering that adds to vaccine hesitation and outright rejection. That propaganda is incredibly powerful. Hell, there are still people out there who wonāt vaccinate their children because they were led to believe the MMR vaccine causes autism (by an unscrupulous doctor who continues to spread vaccine misinformation).
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Youāre welcome for the info. And, the JNJ paragraph was from the same LAcounty report I linked to.
I understand the reluctance associated with fetal cell lines, but wanted to note that HEK-293 is from āA kidney cell line that was isolated from a fetus in 1973 (undisclosed origin, from either a spontaneous miscarriage or an elective abortion)ā per the LA County report linked above.
I expect that might at least partially explain the reasoning behind the US Conference of Catholic Bishops and other pro-life orgs (like Lozier Institute whose report is also linked above) stating the MRNA vaccines are āethically uncontroversialā and JNJās is āmorally acceptableā.
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Thatās what we used to do back in the day with chicken pox.
But not only do they have to live with the consequences, I do too. As do the elderly, kids (who canāt get vaccinated yet) and adult populations who cannot get vaccinated (vaccines are not 100% effective, variants will continue, etc.)
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Yes, I think in light of the pandemic, certain things could be seen as morally acceptable if there was no other choice. But I do question that explanation that often comes up that it was one fetus from 1973 when, first, it was HEK293, not just HEK. In other words, this seems to have been an ongoing effort to get a cell line going, not a one and done thing. And second, there is an ongoing market in fetal tissues for experimentation and I would prefer not to personally participate in the encouragement of that, and instead make whatever small contribution I could by taking a more ethical vaccine.
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What purpose do these diagrams serve? Thatās still too many kids who died because they got covid from someone else.
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I was in Chicago over last weekend when it was the first fully open weekend since March of 2020. No one wore a mask, tons of people crowded around the restaurant. Was out in our MN community last night for dinner. Tons of people crowded around, no masks. So itās not just Nashville.
Personally, Iām glad itās only 1/500,000 kids (if itās 0.2 per 100,000). I suspect thatās a larger rate than would die from the vaccine if kids that old become eligible for it.
Otherwise, I still see the risk being more if the kids pass it on to others who donāt have great odds.
If Covid becomes more rare with the vaccines and herd immunity, I could see the vax itself being recommended later on for X age and older - similar to Shingrix. But thatās if Covid becomes more rare. It still seems to be out there among unvaccinated people, so anyone in that group or folks where the vaccine might not work as well (age, medical conditions) ought to still be wary. Antibody tests ought to help ease fears.
I wonder if there were polio parties back in the day. You know, just to get it over
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