Yes, it does. Shaming may impose the proper costs on the individual who is committing the negative externality. That’s why our local community posts pictures, usually with the caption: “Do you know this person and dog?”
Here ya go: - the British study, complete with the MRIs. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v1.full-text
“UK Biobank study performed imaging of 40,000 participants prior to the pandemic and then re-scanned 782 participants - 394 SARS-CoV2 positive and 388 demographically matched controls. Results suggest the virus enters via the olfactory route, damaging taste/smell centers, damage includes L parahippocampal gyrus, L superior insula, L lateral orbitofrontal……
…we identified consistent abnormalities in the left parahippocampal gyrus… Similarly, the orbitofrontal cortex, which we also found altered by COVID-19, is often referred to as the secondary olfactory cortex as it possesses direct connection to both entorhinal and piriform cortex42, as well as to the anterior olfactory nucleus"
“The limbic nature of the regions of the olfactory system, and their physical proximity to the hippocampus in particular… might in time contribute to Alzheimer’s disease or other forms of dementia.”
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Whoa. That’s a lot to unpack there! For starters I wasn’t replying to a post of yours. So that’s #1.
#2 I think you misinterpreted what I said vis-à-vis scarcity of data. And, honestly, I don’t feel like explaining. Interpretation is, indeed, a rare skill.
#3
[quote=“my3girls, post:1743, topic:3498062”]
If you want to believe unverified information go ahead.
You are correct. ANYONE can “believe” what they’d like. So, I suppose I should thank you for the kind reminder -even though you are insinuating that I trust unverified information (and you’d happen to know that how?). I must have missed that part.
#4
Please tell me where you read that I have not been vaccinated? Not that it pertains to you or anyone else, but that’s a lot to assume on an internet forum. The fact that I believe people can make their own informed decisions doesn’t mean I have not made the best one for myself or my family. They are not mutually exclusive. I can understand (and sympathize with) those who choose to wait.
#5 I heard you loud and clear: three continents and 6 states. I must live under a rock. Or my 3 citizenships are worth zilch.
#6 CNBC is a site I do not visit, but thank you for the link. However, if you want information on the current financial and economic environment I suggest you turn off cncb. Of course, you are free to choose not to, aren’t you?
And finally, I am very sorry for your friends who fell ill and/or passed away. Truly. Despite your defiant tone, I understand it can be a sensitive topic and I do not wish harm on anyone.
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Adding to my Covid “win” total:
-How could I have forgotten my cousin, whose whole family was sick with covid in January? In early 2019, she had a heart attack. When she got covid, her heart began to beat erratically and her husband rushed her to the ER, despite them all being under quarantine. She was forced to wait in the parking lot because she had covid and the covid ward was at capacity. They treated her in her car, many long hours later. She and her husband chose to sleep in the car overnight, in case she had another episode, so she could get treated more quickly if needed. Her doctor now wants her to get a pacemaker.
Covid seeks out the weak link in your body. You may not have a particular weak link, or you may not know what your weak link is until you get covid. For my step mom, it was her eyes, for my cousin, her heart, for my mother in law, several organs. For my dad, prostate cancer.
I realize that people have mistrust of the medical system, are misinformed or uninformed, are conspiracy theorists, are anti-vax, are stubborn, are covid deniers, or whatever else. I guess what I find hard is that despite virtually everyone knowing someone who has been adversely affected by covid, they still choose not to get vaccinated.
Not getting vaccinated puts you and others at risk, way more than any vaccine, covid or otherwise. I couldn’t live with myself if I made someone else sick. I think that was my prime motivation for getting vaccinated as soon as possible. I am very, very far from a saint, but for me, it makes vaccine reluctance incredibly hard to understand, especially because most people do care about others.
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That’s the point that people, including myself, were trying to make up thread. Everyone doesn’t know someone who has been adversely affected by COVID. It sounds like you’ve had more than your share of close contacts that have had it bad. Others don’t have any. It’s not evenly distributed. I believe this is why there are still COVID deniers. It’s one of the reasons why people really don’t think they need to get the vaccine even if they accept that COVID is out there. If everyone you know has had a mild case, why bother with the vaccine. Note: this is not my point of view, but I know people like this.
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As s general statement - when replying, replying to the post or quoting the post or tagging the user makes it easier for the rest of us to follow the flow. Saying “you” with no antecedent is unhelpful.
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That is why I said “virtually everyone”, and even if they don’t personally know anyone, they have still heard the stories on the news or read an article on the internet. Everyone has heard of famous people who have died of covid or who were hospitalized. Even the former President of the US was hospitalized, so they know covid has adverse effects.
FWIW, I don’t give a hoot about the difference, esp on this thread.
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@ganseliesel- Who are you talking to?
It’s a side quibble - not worth it, I agree. Public health is a public good and how to maintain overall immunity despite “vaccine reluctance” is a laudable effort. Fortunately, the overall infection numbers just keep declining. Let’s hope that continues.
In my world, I personally know one person that was hospitalized with Covid. They are obese and that probably contributed to their issues. They are out and fine now thankfully. I known just one that had flu symptoms for several days. I know probably ten people that had sniffles, a slight fever, loss of taste, for a bit but nothing else. I know several that had asymptomatic cases that were only revealed because of testing to travel.
I know two that have had tragic or unusual reactions to the vaccine. My good friend/neighbor had a sister (80 year old) who was fully capable of taking care of her daily needs that APPARENTLY had a reaction to her vaccine shot. Within 24 hours of her first dose she was unable to function, care for herself, wouldn’t eat and became non-verbal. She got worse over the next two and a half weeks untill she passed away. Coincidence? Perhaps. Another good friend, early fifties, developed potentially scary symptoms within 24 hours. Confusion, slurring speech, faltering motor skills. He went to the ER and nothing was found out of the normal but it makes one wonder. Personally I just had the *normal" aches, fever, headache and tiredness for about 12 hours. Then it was like someone flipped a switch and I was back to normal.
Anyway, just sharing my personal experiences since others were. My family is fully vaccinated. I did have some concerns but the potential risks with covid made the vaccines a good choice for me. Everyone has to home to their own conclusions about themselves and their personal situation though.
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I compare the anecdotes to the discussion about smoking and cancer. It is a medical fact that those who smoke have a much, much, much, greater chance of dying of lung cancer than those who do not. But many of us know “that guy”, who smoked 3 packs a day of unfiltered cigarettes and lived well into his 80’s. My mother had 7 brothers, who all smoked–at least 5 of them died of lung cancer, as did my own father, also a smoker.
I have never smoked, and will not take it up because of “that guy” that I met in my 20’s.
Looks like it’s time yet again: If we had the Internet in the 50’s we’d still be fighting polio.
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Perhaps. Or maybe there was greater trust in institutions back then. Or that polio hit the younger population or that it had much more visible and terrible symptoms and long term health/physical effects and outcomes.
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The “know personally” is not always clear. Must they be in my circle of usual friends? Or what about the parents of my friends?
One of my former coworkers died leaving a child. She was the sole legal guardian to a minor. The parent of one of my kids’ friends was hospitalized. Another parent was having significant memory issues a month later. I haven’t asked if it’s gotten better.
A prominent community leader died. I don’t know them personally, but I would say hello to their children in a store/gym. Does that count? Similarly the MIL of my boss (for almost 20 years) died. Boss’ wife worked with H.
I have heard of several coworkers in other departments being hospitalized, but I wouldn’t say I know them.
And then there are plenty of people who say they are fine, but when you get to talking you find out 6 months later, they still mention not having their full strength back or their sense of smell/taste isn’t quite right.
And then another thought, for all of the resistant… I wonder how many medications they take every day. All meds come with a long list of scary side effects, and people pop them without giving it any thought even if they are brand new on the market. I suppose they have full FDA approval, but I suspect that won’t matter for many.
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Comparison of the threats:
| Disease | Transmission | % asymptomatic | % long term problems | % died |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Polio | Not airborne | 70% | ~0.4% or ~25-85%* | ~0.1% |
| COVID-19 | Airborne | 50% | ~20-30% | ~0.5-1% |
*Depends on whether one counts problems immediately after recovery (~0.4%), or very long term problems not noticed until decades later (~25-85% have post-polio syndrome).
Note that the most common polio vaccine used at the time used a live weakened virus that occasionally mutated back into a dangerous form. It is no longer used in the US today. There were also manufacturing errors in early polio vaccines, one of which resulted in the improperly inactivated virus in the vaccine still being virulent and giving people polio.
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Wow, thanks for sharing those statistics! Surprising.
Not sure what the data is supposed to show in relation to my post. Around 1947 Scientists seemed to figure out that most cases were asymptomatic but was that information disseminated to the general public? If not then mostly those with the severe form (paralytic polio) of the disease would be known by the public making the disease seem more virulent than it may have been as well as providing a steady stream of pictures of children/adults in iron lungs or otherwise paralyzed/crippled thus encouraging people to want to be vaccinated because of their fear of the outcome. If the public did know, did it make any difference in people’s fear of developing the severe form? Also the threat of polio spanned years. If we’d had to wait years for a successful Covid vaccine perhaps there would have been more overall enthusiasm to take it? And from what I’ve read the nation seemed very united in support of developing and taking the vaccine. Millions basically volunteered their children to participate in the vaccine trials. Doesn’t seem to be as much the case this time around.
Maybe fear is the differential between the public’s reaction then verse now. It seems that the plethora of information given/available to the public may encourage vaccine reluctance rather than the other way around. Fear is an effective motivator. Many people aren’t afraid/concerned about contracting Covid and therefore aren’t motivated to get vaccinated.
My point is NOT to compare and contrast polio and COVID–for those who don’t get it, my point is that we didn’t question everything re: polio and believe every piece of mis-and di-information, didn’t make false equivalence between anecdotal evidence and real scientific fact.
We just took the vaccine because the people we trusted told us we needed to. The same people we should trust today. Leave the conspiracy theories at the door.
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Yes, my procedure is to ask my doctor what she would do and then follow her advice. I trust her and don’t think she’s in on a conspiracy.
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Also, if Covid mainly hit children under five and caused irreversible paralysis as Polio does, we’d be seeing a lot less vaccine reluctance. No one would be urging others to get the shot so that you don’t kill Granny . . . .
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