In that case, I wonder if those who have been vaccinated can then stop worrying about vaccine-reluctance and allow the school of hard knocks to take over the instruction. The data so far has been pretty clear that those who are vaccinated have little risk of danger from Covid and the CDC has stated that those who are fully vaccinated can resume their normal activities.
The US could then donate any excess stores to those countries that need it more. AZ, for instance, is no longer administered to people under 60 in Italy due to the recent death of a teen Italy halts AstraZeneca vaccine for under-60s | Reuters and in the UK they are offering alternatives to those under 40 due to slightly higher clotting risk among the young Under 40s to be offered alternative to AZ vaccine - BBC News Perhaps other countries would wish to follow suit but canât because they donât have enough alternatives. ETA: or enough of any vaccine. Worth looking into.
I have never understood this mentality. (And this is not directed at you Lindagaf - I agree with you; I just donât understand it.)
While I may have not experienced loved ones getting sick or dying, I certainly know people are! Why would I wait until someone I knows gets really sick or dies to believe it?
I am thankful that nobody in my close circle got seriously sick or died, but I am very sympathetic to all that have.
My son still thinks that his risk of getting sick , long term covid, etc as a 20 year old is next to nil. he believes he would be asymptomatic, and therefore less at risk than non fully FDA approved vaccines. he said in Dec , one year out, is when he would want to get vaccinated. We told him his 21 yo at the time sister was sick for 2 weeks!. He would be one of those that would say âI should have listenedâ after he gets sick from Covid. SIGH SIGH SIGH. We pull the data, we make the cases with him, but he has dug his heels in as this was his decision and he is not Budging, and putting in for exemption at his school. Only if the school rejects it would he reconsider. Meanwhile he works in an office which I hope the other 6/7 people are vaccinated. Noone has asked. In our area, in the last 2 weeks there has been minimal cases, but with Delta , will be watching carefully. I would , at this point, pay a reward for anyone that could change his mind. His father and I have tried stick and carrot.
As many posters have said, those who choose not to get vaccinated are a risk to themselves AND to others. The unvaccinated are a risk to those who canât get vaccinated (young kids, those with certain medical conditions, etc.) or to those who didnât develop antibodies to the vaccine.
Further, the unvaccinated also place ALL of us at risk as variants develop in an infected person (which is most likely to be an unvaccinated person).
It is possible that a variant will develop in an infected person that is able to evade the protection of the vaccineâŠthat is not being alarmist. We are seeing incredibly fast, smart mutations by this virus, and we should be doing everything we can to curtail this evolution. The best way to do that is to get people vaccinated so that fewer people are infected. Itâs really quite simple.
In the first place, we have zero idea what % vaccination rate+covid survivors will equal herd immunity. In the second place, we are extremely unlikely to get to that unknown % anytime soon. Absent a full FDA approval/authorization for kids, schools canât mandate the vax â nor should they, IMO. And thirdly, with open borders/airports, we will continue to import variants every day by asymptomatic travelers.
We are seeing incredibly fast, smart mutations by this virus, and we should be doing everything we can to curtail this evolution. The best way to do that is to get people vaccinated so that fewer people are infected.
The fewer people infected (my point isnât limited to the US), the less chance that a variant develops in an infected person.
I never addressed herd immunity or schools mandating vaccines so not sure why you tagged me on that, but regarding the herd immunity point, you are correct, we arenât even close to that globally, which is all that matters due to travel.
Regarding school mandates of vaccination, I agree schools wonât mandate vaccines until full FDA approval, which is best case (for Pfizer 12+) Q3, but more likely in Q4.
Full FDA approval for 11 and younger even longer, could be a year away (or more, if ever).
RegardlessâŠour inability to vaccinate the younger kids puts more pressure on getting 12+ vaccinated ASAP.
Sad story from FL - especially tragic because it was completely preventable. Iâm really surprised at how hard covid hit the ones who got infected, I believe this this across-the-board level of severity is abnormal? Iâm not up with the numbers but I thought it was only some small fraction typically requiring hospitalization, not to mention 2 of 6 deaths vs <1%.
I wouldnât be surprised if thereâs some details missing, but still a sobering story.
Of the six people infected, five were hospitalized. One employee who was in the hospital died and another employee who was not hospitalized also died, Hopes told CNNâs Erin Burnett.
The only exposed employee in the IT office who was vaccinated did not get infected, Hopes said.
Thatâs like saying, âthe best way to address the homeless is to home them.â
No, definitely not simple. Not homing people, not vaccinating people. Itâs easier said than done in an open, free society. And if we donât even know what the vax goal is (70%, 80%?), how do we know when weâve gotten there?
For most people who are vaccinated, the risk is low, unless a variant with significantly greater vaccine evasion shows up.
That leaves (a) the medically vulnerable who do not get good immunity from vaccination, or who cannot get vaccinated for medical reasons, and (b) those who choose not to get vaccinated for non-medical reasons. In terms of policy (e.g. for schools and workplaces), it comes down to which group is more important (to those making the policy), since their interests cannot both be satisfied.
In actual practice in most situations, group (a) needs to become even more COVID-19-paranoid now that most places are âback to normalâ and wait until enough of group (b) gets COVID-19 (resulting in herd immunity from vaccination + natural infection). For prospective college students in group (a), choosing a college with a high vaccination rate among the entire college community and useful COVID-19 management for the few unvaccinated could help, but interaction outside the college community would still require COVID-19-paranoia, although there may be somewhat lower risk if the college is in a community with a high vaccination rate.
Needing for something to hit close to home is part of human nature. We see that all the time. On a message board about colleges, think of all the hard knocks kids could avoid if they just listened to their parents. But often times they donât. Same was true with Covid. One, countries that have done the best were hit with another virus and they put systems in place to prevent that from happening again. Two, the US saw what was happening in Europe but didnât really shut down until things got bad here. And states often needed to get smacked in the face before they enacted strict measures.
In dealing with vaccine reluctance, you have to acknowleldge there are different reasons for it with different people. And often times its multiple reasons. To get them off the sidelines, you need to take an approach that will work for them rather than broadstrokes. And calling anyone stupid or dumb is not likely to be helpful.
Full FDA approval (Pfizer and Moderna applied last month) will be helpful. Will likely see more mandates.
It is similar to how personal anecdotes override all data in many thought processes. For example:
News of an economic downturn may not make much of an impression if neither you nor people you know lose jobs (or see loss of business for those running small businesses or are self-employed).
When your relatives, friends, and/or neighbors lose their jobs, you start thinking that the economy is in recession.
When you lose your job, you start thinking that the economy is in depression.
Those not able to be vaccinated can be protected using other means, as they have been throughout the pandemic. There will always be unvaccinated (by choice as well as those who simply cannot) as there have been for pretty much all vaccines.
âIt is possible that a variant will developâ is getting ahead of the science on this issue. The CDC hasnât changed its guidelines based on the Delta variant. As for young kids - Delta (the worst variant yet) doesnât seem to pose a significantly higher risk over and above other variants, per the new stories on this issue (see the recent NYT piece, for instance). A bit of fear and anxiety is understandable but the data are not validating those worries.
Our news showed a youngish guy (40s or 50s?) in the hospital telling people to get vaccinated and saying he thought his immune system was fine, but it wasnât.
It has me wondering how many people in the hospital now with it wish they had gotten vaccinated.
Of course. And the United States is doing just that.
Once the US was receiving enough vaccines for their purposes and they knew they could meet our demand, they started with a plan to give vaccine to other countries.
They are giving AstraZeneca away, they are giving vaccines through Covax. And have announced other plans for getting the world vaccinated.
It is absolutely a priority and Iâm not sure what your question is. The US is already doing that. They did not sell vaccines before their needs were met though. But now, yes.
In some ways I am thankful to live somewhere Covid hit early and hard. Everyone I know knows at least one person who died and many who got sick and some longhaulers. Everyone I know also got vaccinated as soon as they were eligible. (Well except for one grad student of my husband, who is no longer his grad student, for other reasons as well.) People have been slow to unmask as well. I think the majority of the unvaccinated here, either think they are protected because they had Covid, or have been misinformed about costs or worry about missing work.
However, the nature of trying to protect the medically vulnerable will change (not that trying to do so was all that effective before):
In some ways, it will be more difficult, since most other people will no longer be practicing âCOVID-19 mannersâ, and most business and other places where one may encounter the general public may go back to potentially crowded conditions. I.e. the medically vulnerable may be more restricted in places they can go to, and may need to pay more attention to using PPE when in places where the general public may be encountered.
However, vaccination of those around the medically vulnerable may help protect them. This is helpful if they live with family who gets vaccinated. It is a problem if they live with those who refuse vaccination (including nursing home residents in nursing homes where many employees refuse vaccination).
Local herd immunity may help in areas with high vaccination rates (though incoming travelers can still bring virus in). In areas with low vaccination rates, the medically vulnerable must wait until enough of the unvaccinated get COVID-19 to produce herd immunity by natural infection.