VADM Fowler and RADM (sel) Klunder: Why Being a Mid is Worthwhile

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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<p>I wanted to shed some light as a MIDN 1/c on why being a midshipman at USNA has been such a worthwhile experience during the tenure of our current leadership.</p>

<p>Let me present some "perceptions" to the CC community about the leadership here. When Fowler first got here, the perception was that he had an agenda that nobody could understand. Terms like "diversity", "face of the Navy", "technical proficiency", and "Nation at War" were thrown around like catch phrases. It seemed as though Admiral Fowler only spoke to the Brigade when there was something he wanted to impose.</p>

<p>Time went on, then CAPT Klunder arrived. CAPT Klunder became the most charasmatic figure known to man at USNA. He was down to Earth, and was visable on a daily basis in the Brigade. He led from the front and is the most humble man you ever want to meet. He respects the opinions of the midshipmen, something that really never happened before. He's been a man of his word. This newfound spirit that CAPT Klunder helped instill in the Brigade turned into real cheers at football games, true camaraderie in King Hall, and genunine vigor in everything we did as midshipmen.</p>

<p>As time has gone on, I realize that these two men and the rest of the leadership here will have a greater impact on this place after they leave than they do now. They have set USNA and the entire NAVY for success with some of the things that have been implemented. The number of candidates to USNA for 2014 is estimated to be in the 20,000 range. What does this mean? It means that going to the Naval Academy has an appeal across America. Many mids are choosing USNA over Harvard, Princeton, and the rest of the "academic" institutions just because there have been outreach programs to educate talented high schoolers across America about what we do here. What does this mean? It means that the Naval Academy is attracting the best possible officer candidates for our Navy. Move over Ivy League, there is something special in Annapolis, and you can be a part of it!</p>

<p>CAPT Klunder has stayed true to his word about the Honor Concept, and this change that is about to go through will dramatically change the climate of honor at USNA and restore it back to what it should be. If you read some of my posts earlier, I was a skeptic of CAPT Klunder because he and the administration refused to act on the problems of the Honor Concept raised by the Brigade and the Honor Staff. The Honor Staff recently submitted a proposal to CAPT Klunder for review with some harsh requirements, and that document is currently sitting on his desk and should be approved in a few weeks. In what was a subjective honor concept has gone to consistent reprimand for ALL offenders whether you're varsity athlete, minority, whatever. Just to be clear and open to the public about honor, the Commandant of Midshipmen will have only TWO options when a midshipman case crosses his desk:</p>

<ol>
<li>Separate that Midshipman from the Naval Academy</li>
<li>Impose the ALL of the following HONOR REPRIMAND
-Remediation lasting no shorter than 6 months with Senior Officer
-Delayed Graduation for 1/c mids if the remediation extends past the graduation date
-Loss of Leave for 6 Months
-Loss of Class Privileges for 6 Months
-Loss of Weekend Eligibility for 6 Months
-Prohibition to participate in sporting events, extracurricular activities, performances, or Movement Orders</li>
</ol>

<p>It's basically saying that you're either going to leave, or, if the Commandant has mercy, your life here at USNA will be so difficult here for 6 months that if you're willing to put up with all of these punishments, then you've probably learned your lesson. If you've already been "granted" the ticket of Honor Reprimand, then the next offense, you leave no matter what. These punishments will be the standard for all honor offenses. </p>

<p>People will not get a full grasp of what a dramatic change this is until roommates start to leave the Academy for things that used to be tolerated. All of a sudden, people may become bitter about this, but isn't this the type of power that everyone expected the honor concept to have upon arrival? Why the disappointment now when you see that it's not as hard as it was expected to be? </p>

<p>Now that is has as much power as everyone expected it to have when they got here, there should be no more complaining about favoritism. This is what everyone will get for honor, this is the standard. The Brigade as a whole actually wanted this, and thank you CAPT Klunder for being a man of your word and doing the right thing and supporting the Brigade on this issue that separates us from all the other schools in the land. When Princeton kicks you out the first time, and they LOOK UP to our honor concept, shouldn't we have the same standards or greater than a civilian institution? </p>

<p>This is a rant, but civilian schools are actually interested in how we run the honor program here. For academic dishonesty, it's usually one and done at their schools. I'm ashamed sometimes to talk to the honor chairmen at other schools and tell them that USNA gives you a free pass depending on if you're a plebe, or if you're an athlete, etc. Now, the standards are more on par with those who actually look up to us.</p>

<p>2014, you're an extremely lucky class to be inheriting this honor concept that is all that you expect it to be, but you have the opportunity to make it better! You guys are the beneficiaries of being selected among a more competitive pool than any other in history at USNA and probably the most talented student body in America. Congratulations to you all, I envy you coming into the Academy now that being a midshipman here is as special, sacred, and meaningful as you expect it to be.</p>

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<p>All I can say, as a former member of the USNA Honor Committee in the early 80’s for three of my four years, is that during that period it was rare for anyone to escape with a recommendation to stay. </p>

<p>The vast majority of cases that were forwarded to the Honor Committee were recommended for separation to the Superintendent. He makes the final decision. A lot of cases were determined to be not honor offenses, but rather conduct cases and were screened out prior to going to a hearing. If my memory serves me correctly, of all the hearings I sat on, I can only remember one case that was not forwarded with a “separate” recommendation. </p>

<p>Something happened along the way to alter the way cases were adjudicated, and I don’t want to open Pandora’s Box on why and who, but I was stunned to hear how lax it’s been while my two kids have been there. That is, if you believe the hyperbolic rumors that fly around Bancroft.</p>

<p>The basic tenets of the honor concept haven’t changed much over the years, but somewhere the application of it has seemed to have changed. Sounds like Capt K will get it on the right footing.</p>

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<p>This is very encouraging to hear. When I was at summer seminar I was extremely disappointed to hear some midshipmen joking about how they get around the rules, and willfully break the Honor code.</p>

<p>Just out of curiosity, where did you find the 20,000 number?</p>

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<p>Thank you for posting, GoNavyXC. I know my 2/C Mid thinks Capt Klunder has made an enormous difference @ the Academy. I wish he were staying longer, but he’s certainly made his mark during his tenure.</p>

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<p>I am not registered in Serviceacademyforums.com, but I have read through the thread concerning the honor concept.</p>

<p>Malachay Marine is about 80% correct in his last post there on his/her opinions on the honor concept.</p>

<p>The difference with this year’s staff is that is was carefully selected, and we have methodically done things, threatened things, and just flat out did what we and the Brigade wanted. Nobody in the past has had the determination to do what we have done. Most stripers are just happy to have their positions to “see if they can make a change”…but this years staff made it clear that those honor staff members WOULD NOT WALK across the stage. Forget resigning stripes or positions…this staff contemplated resigning our COMMISSIONS at one point. Since Senior honor staff members resigning their commissions would look pretty bad in the Capital, I think that the Administration finally understood the importance of giving the honor concept some teeth, and give it back to the Brigade.</p>

<p>Malachay Marine sounds like he/she was either a regimental honor advisor, or honor advisor for investigations because they used specific instances on injustice. For example, in the Regimental Commander’s and Presiding Officers memos, I have made it mandatory for those mids to indicate what the climate was like and why the numericial vote was so important. There is a clear different in the atmosphere of a 7-2 vote in violation versus a 9-0 vote. This is what I hear (brigade investigations advisor is the only senior staff member not allow to preside, and for good reason you can imagine).</p>

<p>2010 asked the Brigade and got the general concerns KNOWN to the administration in a creative way. The charasmatic figures like MIDN Garth Thomas who will one day be CNO made this possible. You can’t have crusty ol stripers up there who don’t know what the Brigade’s concerns are. It was vitally important that this year’s staff was selected BY THE BRIGADE…this is the first time since I’ve been here that the importance of our moral ground has acutally been addressed, and it’s a great feeling to know I am part of a place that holds its dearest ideals in a good light.</p>

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<p>I’m just curious what you think about all the thefts that occurred during winter break. From what I heard things always “go missing”, but the scale of textbook thefts in particular seems to be something new.</p>

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<p>Pachrian, could you go into more detail about what happened? There are a few midshipment on this forum, but also graduates, candidates, thinking-about-it-maybes, and parents who don’t have the background to know.</p>

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<p>at the end of winter break we received many (20?) emails through the USNA parent listserv where parents reported that their mids had their textbooks (calculus seemed to be a fave) stolen. </p>

<p>Captain Klunder sent a letter out, via the listserv, that the thefts are under investigation. This is a copy and paste from his letter:</p>

<p>“Recently, I received word from the Brigade and my staff concerning the
alleged theft of some textbooks and other personal items during the
Holiday Leave Period. My staff and I have taken immediate action to
investigate this matter to determine the culprit and potential degree of
permeation throughout the Brigade. Currently, a Department of Defense
police detective is in the process of conducting a full investigation of
this issue to ensure our Naval Academy Family is attended to promptly
and appropriately. As my staff and I are always critically concerned
with the security of our midshipmen and their personal belongings, I
will absolutely provide you with the results of this investigation as
soon as they become available.”</p>

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</p>

<p>Unless you’re a football player with three prior honor offenses AND a positive drug test. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>[USNA</a> player’s failed test causes ‘uproar’ - Navy News, news from Iraq - Navy Times](<a href=“http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/01/navy_academy_drugs_update_012710w/]USNA”>http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/01/navy_academy_drugs_update_012710w/)</p>

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<p>[Positive</a> drug test for Navy grid star • Top Stories (<a href=“http://www.HometownAnnapolis.com”>www.HometownAnnapolis.com</a> - The Capital)](<a href=“http://www.hometownannapolis.com/news/top/2010/01/28-29/Positive-drug-test-for-Navy-grid-star.html]Positive”>Real Estate – Capital Gazette)</p>

<p>Keep trying GoNavyXC.
you will have setbacks as this but keep trying to return the bar to where it belongs.</p>

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<p>How many honor violations and positive drug tests can non-D1 football players accumulate before being separated?</p>

<p>Honor at the USNA has been sold for a few D1 football bowl games and the almighty dollar.</p>

<p>[CDR</a> Salamander: A drug free Annapolis? No, but we have D1 football!](<a href=“http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2010/01/drug-free-annapolis-no-but-we-have-d1.html]CDR”>CDR Salamander: A drug free Annapolis? No, but we have D1 football!)</p>

<p>The actions of the Supe speak much louder than words.</p>

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<p>Let’s not get too wrapped up about some anonymous emails and phone calls by a few mids to an egocentric anonymous blogger. Hopefully, despite the privacy act, whatever reputable facts that should emerge, will do so.</p>

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<p>All,</p>

<p>When I was growing up as a kid, I would hear, “don’t always believe the news”…In this case, there are some pretty hefty assumptions made by the author of this article. As the person who knows FIRST HAND, I feel outraged, but I know that I cannot write to the Captial to shed light on what’s really going on.</p>

<p>First of all, I do not have access to the number of demerits Mr. Curry has. AND, for goodness sakes, this is NOT AN HONOR OFFENSE. I repeat, Mr. Curry was NOT PROCESSED through the midshipman honor system, he was forwarded straight to the Commandant for separation (which he followed through on), and then onto the Superintendent after it was discovered that he popped positive on the urinalysis. Midshipmen do not deal with conduct cases.</p>

<p>A couple of mids definitely reported inaccurate information about Curry’s record. Mr. Curry has had THREE OFFENSES ENTERED. He was found “Not in Violation” of the honor concept on two of the cases for which he was brought before the honor board. I was the investigative officer for Curry’s first honor offense last year, and he was found guilty in that case. Technically, Mr. Curry has only ONE honor offense prior, and this was not considered an honor offense.</p>

<p>The honor staff has worked hard. You want to know how hard?</p>

<p>Cases seen by the Commandant last academic Year: 37 - he forwarded 9 for separation.</p>

<p>Cases seen by the Commandant since the 3 Honor Articles appeared in the Capital: 14- He has forwarded TEN (10!) FOR SEPARATION.</p>

<p>Admissions certainly plays a role in those we are selecting, but the brigade’s lack of enthusiasm for the honor concept starts right after plebe summer ends when the rest of the Brigade returns. The reason for this is that the mids feel stripped of their power. To all you grads, do you not think that the honor staff and the brigade as a whole wants to live up and even surpass your legacy??? Of course we do, we just can’t pull rank at the end of the day. We all have a vision of what USNA should be before we come here, and we are doing our best to cultivate our dreams of being held to the highest standards possible. There are a lot of factors going on all at once, and even though Mr. Curry is not an honor case, it sheds some negative light on all of the progress the honor concept has made within the past year.</p>

<p>The mids are doing their part when we get the chance to make these decisions. There are just some that get away and we have to trust that our Chain of Command is using good judgment to make their decisions. As I’ve said, Admiral Fowler has done some great and underappreciated things since he’s been here, and I stand by this decision because I feel that there is information that we don’t know about. This shouldn’t tarnish the honor program or Admiral Fowler’s legacy that he’s left for the Naval Academy.</p>

<p>I say just wait and see how everything plays out. Do know that the midshipmen are doing everything in their right minds to weed out those lacking sufficient character fitness to be commissioned. The Commandant knew that there was something wrong here with honor when he got here, and I will say that he has been quite proactive (as shown in his recent decisions concurring with the honor staff) in seeking out advice from members of the honor staff, and all midshipmen on these matters.</p>

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<p>Interesting and thought-provoking post. Sounds like the honor staff is working hard to get changes made and that it is starting to happen.</p>

<p>However, I have to question your statement “AND, for goodness sakes, this is NOT AN HONOR OFFENSE!”</p>

<p>Really, honestly, you believe him? You truthfully believe he had no idea that there were drugs involved? After 3 honor issues (okay, not convictions!) in the past? Sorry, but personally I don’t. And to me that makes it an Honor Offense. At the very least that side of it should be investigated as well. I understand that’s not within your authority, but I don’t think anyone on this thread is bashing the mid Honor staff - instead it’s the head turning and eye winking at the much higher level that seems to be the problem!</p>

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<p>So, marciemi, you are not bashing the Honor Committee but you are still bashing the individual for the two situations for which they exonerated him. I can’t follow your logic here. Sounds as if you are not going to allow common sense and facts come in the way of your preconceived opinion. “Head turning and eye winking”. Since Salamander has all but been totally discredited, please give us the source of your insight. Or is it just another preconceived opinion based on absolutely nothing other than your apparent desire to see USNA smeared in the mud?</p>

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<p>Wow - seems like you’re intentionally misinterpreting what I’m saying. I’ll ask you again what I asked earlier - do YOU believe the football player had no knowledge of the drugs? Really? </p>

<p>Even ignoring the honor violation? I’ll disregard the two exonerations, but also point out that it’s pretty easy to beat an honor board if you’re willing to be dishonorable. Is this the case here? Again, I have no idea, but I never knew anyone who had 3 honor incidents either. Or, for that matter, remained after one “conviction”! </p>

<p>My understanding is that the call on this one went to the Commandant. Zero tolerance for drugs to me also means zero tolerance - not “zero tolerance unless you’re a football player”. Either of these issues (the honor violations OR the drug use) really make me wonder what’s going on, and it certainly doesn’t sound like it’s at the honor committee level.</p>

<p>And no, I would like nothing better than to NOT see any academy’s name smeared in the mud for honor OR drugs (or anything similar - sex scandals/embezzlement come to mind!). Academies are known to be honorable institutions - I would really, really prefer they stay that way! Incidents like this have to make me (and a lot of other old grads!) question if this is the case.</p>

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<p>The Superintendent is a fool if he believes the marijuana blunt was "accidentally " ingested. The whole entire brigade is laughing at him, they know the truth. Cigars are not shared, they are not inhaled, and every kid there knows what a blunt is.</p>

<p>The football player lied about the offense (honor) and the offense itself was a conduct offense. He is not a stranger to the punishment system, having been before the Man on a number of occasions.</p>

<p>Any other non-revenue generating Mid would have been kicked out.</p>

<p>The USNA is tarnished because of the actions of Vice Admiral Fowler, and his personal intervention to disregard the findings of the Commandant’s investigation and his recommendation to separate the football player.</p>

<p>Big Money D1 exceptions to a “zero tolerance” policy again discredits the Academy spokesperson CDR Joe Carpenter, whose lame attempt at spin failed miserably and generated even more laughter (and dismay) at the Supe.</p>

<p>Fowler should immediately resign, he has no business passing judgement on kids he cannot relate to, he was fooled and made to look like a fool by a lie about accidental ingestion of marijuana, and he succumbed to pressure to keep a star football player when any othe Mid would not have been given a chance.</p>

<p>Any more attempts at spin, to make it seem that there was not favoritism shown toward a football player (or was it diversity that kept him in?) further discredits the Naval Academy.</p>

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</p>

<p>So, mombee, is your head so far underground (like an ostrich, ignore the obvious trouble and it will go away) that you are actually stating the the offense did not take place?</p>

<p>Are you actually trying to get us to believe that the entire story is false? That no USNA football player tested positive for drug use and that said football player remains at the academy?</p>

<p>Your attempt to discredit CDR Salamander makes you look foolish. Your attempt to downplay this event makes you look foolish. And your attempt to cover it up is reprehensible, as it should be to someone who claims to be so involved with the inner workings in Annapolis as you.</p>

<p>FACTS - The incident happened. A USNA football player tested positive for marijauna, and he remains at the academy despite the recommendation of the Commandant that he be separated.</p>

<p>If you’re so connected to the USNA, how about using one of your inside sources to learn that it DID happen instead of trying to spin the “punishment.”</p>

<p>Fowler has disgraced the academy. And if you don’t believe that, then you are as gullible as he is, and no one that gullible should be in charge of the USNA.</p>

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<p>mombee, you might want to read this one. </p>

<p>[A</a> Concept of “Honor” | US Naval Institute](<a href=“http://blog.usni.org/2010/01/29/a-concept-of-honor/]A”>http://blog.usni.org/2010/01/29/a-concept-of-honor/)</p>

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<p>Excellent post.</p>