<p>I just got my fat envelope from Penn (no t-shirt. Nuts), and I got a letter about getting invited to the Vagelos program. Now, I'm visiting campus soon so I'll ask most of my questions there, but I'm wondering if anyone has any personal experience with it and wants to present another side.
For example, it says on 12 students graduate with Vagelos. Does that mean that loads drop out from sheer workload? And also, I was originally planning on English major, is minoring in it or something out of the window with this? And would this thing help me get into Med school?
Thanks in advance guys and gals,
Cooledge</p>
<p>heyy i got this too! I also don't know much about, anyone wanna comment?</p>
<p>I got this too. Do they offer this to everyone who specifies bio/chem/biochem/biophysics as their major?</p>
<p>yes, tons drop out because of the workload / research time involved in finishing both your bs and ms in biochemistry in the 4 years...</p>
<p>it's actually not aimed at premeds in that they're trying to cultivate researchers who will go on to get phds, though of course research work of this caliber will certainly look good on a med school application.</p>
<p>and yeah this offer is given to people specifying a bio/chem major on the application.</p>
<p>i got this too! The website says that only 30 incoming/accepted freshman are invited to this special freshman seminar so I'm assuming that only 30 students get invited to this program?</p>
<p>I'm currently a freshman in this program. Although this program is aimed at pre-PhD's, a majority of us are premed in one way or another (MD/PhD seems to be a popular option). It has great placement into both medical schools and PhD programs.</p>
<p>They invite many more than 30 students. I think in the very first seminar, we had over 50, and that number has steadily been whittled down. People quit not necessarily because they find the workload too difficult (definitely some), but because they find something else that interests them. A double major in two sciences or a master's in four years can be pretty hard to swallow.</p>
<p>That being said, it's an excellent program if you're passionate about science. It won't directly help you in premed, but a lot of us will presumably be working in labs for all four of our undergraduate years, and don't quote me on this, but I think a lot of students get published.</p>
<p>My recommendation would be to try it out and see if you like it. I came in not being too hardcore about science, but I've really grown to like it.</p>
<p>Look over this website for more info:
<a href="http://www.sas.upenn.edu/biochem/vspmls.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.sas.upenn.edu/biochem/vspmls.html</a></p>
<p>The letter I got said that it's only the top 15%, by the way.</p>
<p>From the FAQ site:
14. How many students will be accepted into the Program?</p>
<p>We are admitting approximately thirty from each freshman class into the Vagelos Seminar course, Chemistry 22. With normal attrition, there will be about ten from each class with summer stipends after their respective sophomore and junior years.</p>
<p>So how good is this program?>???</p>
<p>by reading Arthur07's link I think Vagelos is great. You will have a very bright future -- if you can complete it
Unfortunately my son doesn't like the field -- I was try to encourage him to get into this industry, so far no luck yet</p>
<p>Just to clarify and avoid confusion for anyone who may read this thread, there are 2 different programs at Penn bearing the name Vagelos: the Vagelos Scholars Program in Molecular Life Sciences, which is the subject of this thread, and the Vagelos Program in Life Sciences and Management, which is a joint program between the College of Arts and Sciences and the Wharton School:</p>
<p>Life</a> Sciences and Management at the University of Pennsylvania</p>
<p>This might be confusing for prospective students and their parents who have heard of one program or the other but aren't aware that there actually are 2 separate and very different programs named Vagelos.</p>
<p>For those who got in, would you mind posting your stats?</p>
<p>I was hoping to get invited to the Vagelos Program, but did not receive an invitation.</p>
<p>It says that you can ask for a reevaluation up until September. How does this help? Does demonstrated-interest play a role? </p>
<p>If you are not invited I heard it is possible to take the Freshman Seminar, after talking to Dr. Lu, and if you survive that you can come into the program.</p>
<p>Is there anything I can do to get back into this program or am I not "cut out" for it.</p>
<p>Maybe my SAT scores are too low:
CR730 M710 Chem730 Math II: 770</p>
<p>Kaotic_spice, admissions selectivity isn't really the hallmark of this Vagelos program. Unlike the LSM program and Penn in general, the trick to the Vagelos program seems to be staying in, not getting in. I wouldn't use that statistic of 30 students accepted (which is very out of date) to make any judgments. To answer your question, if you're passionate about science (particularly biochemisty or chemistry) and want to really get on track to pursue higher level work as an undergraduate, then Vagelos is an excellent opportunity.</p>
<p>Biochem8, if you want to join the Vagelos, but didn't get an invitation, contact Dr. Lu and ask if you can join. There's a good chance that if you contact him early, you can get in (he'll probably be at Pennpreviews, if you're planning on going). Although invitations are given out based on basic academic stats, Dr. Lu himself has said that the success of students who are invited compared to those who ask for a spot are basically the same.</p>
<p>Sure Biochem8, here's my stats (purely academic, because that seems to be the focus for invitation)
M:780 CR:800 W:730
MII:800 Chem:760 Lit:720
ACT: 35
GPA uw: 3.93
Class Rank: 1/640</p>
<p>Your stats seem like they're within a percentile or so of mine. I would ask Doc Lu if you can get in.</p>
<p>My stats:</p>
<p>M: 800, CR: 740 W:790
MII:770 Chem:800 BioM:770
ACT: did not take
GPA uw: 4.0
Class rank: Doesn't rank
I included an abstract for my research project at the local university on my app</p>
<p>Thanks Arthur I will definitely try talking to Dr. Lu and maybe drop by during Penn Previews. </p>
<p>My stats are quite a bit less than cooledge and americanwonton (thank you for posting by the way) so that's probably why I was not invited.</p>
<p>Maybe I'll send in a copy of my abstract. </p>
<p>My main dilemma is that I'm still not 100% I want to get into the Vagelos program. Don't get me wrong - I really wanted to get invited so that I could make the decision as to whether I wanted to go through with it. I know it's ALOT of work and only has about a 20% retention rate. I don't want my life to be consumed by studies.</p>
<p>Still, I wanted to be able to make the decision for myself. But now, if I plead with Dr. Lu to let me in and then I realize that a) it is to much studying/work or b) I'm not necessarily as interested in chem/biochem as I thought, I will feel horrible for leaving.</p>
<p>I took a look at the difference between schedules for Chem/Biochem and the Vagelos. The biggest difference I see is: 1) Vagelos seminar 2) Vagelos has one extra physics course and some more biochem and pchem, and possibly the biggest 3) summer research.</p>
<p>Is it possible to take many of the same courses as a chem/biochem major that are included in the Vagelos (except for the seminar) i.e. biological chemistry, physical chemistry and physics? Is it possible to contact CURF and set up your own summer research?</p>
<p>I know this is a really long post so thank you to anyone that responds. It is most appreciated!</p>
<p>Biochem, I was interested in asking for an invitation to the Vagelos program last year. I had talked to some friends in the program and it seemed like they all applied regular decision. I talked to my admissions counselor at Penn Previews and asked him how I could go about getting into the program. He said to just email Ponzy and that I would probably be let in (then again I had a very strong science background with a lot of research). I would go ahead and ask to be admitted to the program, but I personally ended up not asking because it started to look like I would drop it (and I did end up switching from a chem major to and econ major).</p>
<p>And you can take many of the same courses as the Vagelos kids take and perform research at Penn from the get go.</p>
<p>Thank you, Venkat89</p>
<p>I think you are right. I will contact Dr. Lu and see if I can get into the Program. I feel that I too have a very strong science and research background although my standardized tests might not show it. I go to a magnet school for Science and Engineering. Research is also required of all students and I made it to the national level with my project. With all that said I really thought I'd be admitted to the Vagelos. Part of my "Why Penn" essay even discussed the program and why I wanted to get invited.</p>
<p>I'm starting to think that I would have a very hard time in the program and maybe I should just be a regular Chem/Biochem major but take some additional courses that are offered in the Vagelos program.</p>
<p>Does being in the Vagelos help for grad school acceptance into Chem/Biochem programs? Does this outweigh a probable lowering in GPA due to the harder courses?</p>
<p>I know I'm being paranoid, but I'm very interested in this program and it was one of the reasons I applied to Penn ED.</p>
<p>Thank you again.</p>
<p>^I actually applied ED last year and in my Why Penn essay talked about the Vagelos program. I would say not to worry about graduate school this early because chances are your major will change at least once. If you are interested in majoring in chem or biochem you should probably ask Ponzy to be in the program then drop if it doesn't work. The majority of people drop out of it so he probably won't notice. One of my friends who is a freshman in the program thinks Ponzy doesn't know his name or who he is, so maybe Ponzy won't even notice if you drop.</p>
<p>They use it a lot as a recruiting tool, so very few ED kids are admitted to the program without asking. Definitely ask - he will say yes.</p>
<p>I was also invited to the Vagelos Progam. My first instinct ---awesome!
But now, thinking about it, I am extremely scared. I also come for a math and science school. I worked extremely hard, so I came out with very good grades, perhaps indicating that I am more intelligent that I really am.
I'm a student who is fairly good at math and science; but for me, its more perseverance than innate intelligence. I want to go to a good medical school; will this program help or hurt if I can't maintain a 4.0?</p>
<p>Also, are the vagelos scholars super geniuses who immediately understand math and science. Like I mentioned before, I work really hard but am afraid that it wont be enough. ALso, I want to learn a foreign language during college. Will I have time if i accept this program?</p>
<p>I know this was a long post, but thanks so much for anyone who replies!</p>