Vagelos Scholars Program in the Molecular Life Sciences

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
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<p>Hey guys! Can you please offer your advice and/or information? Any help would be much appreciated!</p>

<p>I was recently admitted to the Vagelos Scholars Program in the Molecular Life Sciences. I really love science research and probably want to be a biomed engineer or something of the sort. Anyway,</p>

<p>1) What is the program? Is it reputable in terms of applying for a job/grad school?
2) Is it too rigorous?
3) Should I choose to attend UPenn over Columbia Fu Engineering because of the program?</p>

<p>Thank You!</p>

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<p>i’ve heard its extremely rigorous. I worked in a lab last summer with a student in the program and he says a huge amount of people drop out due to it being too hardcore. Then again, i heard that through the grapevine, so an actual student may be better suited to give you a legitimate answer.</p>

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<p>… but is it worth it? how are the job opportunities after? easier to get into grad school?</p>

<p>should i go to fu engineering instead of this program?</p>

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<p>is it good for an aspiring med school student/doctor?</p>

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<p>hahaha hey guys freshman here in vagelos mls.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>[Vagelos</a> Scholars Program in Molecular Life Sciences](<a href=“http://www.sas.upenn.edu/biochem/vspmls.html]Vagelos”>http://www.sas.upenn.edu/biochem/vspmls.html)
point of vagelos mls = getting a master’s degree in chem/physics in 4 years/double majoring in science. the aim of the program is to prepare its students to go to med school.
i don’t think the prestige comes with the name that you attach to the program–it’s more like what you will achieve in the 4 years you’ll be here at penn that allows you to earn the prestige. i don’t know if that made sense (probably not, sorry) but like–yeah.</p></li>
<li><p>too rigorous? don’t go in with that attitude ):
but statistically, each class starts out with around 30-40 students and they graduate around 10-15 seniors. every student is required to take 5+ cu each semester and some of those classes are determined by the vagelos schedule (see website).</p></li>
<li><p>it’s pretty much up to you what you want to do haha, wherever you feel like you fit in best. look over the site because it pretty much has everything on it–and if you have any questions, feel free to post here and i’ll check back. (:
(personally i feel as if coming to penn for a science related major is probably better but that’s probably just because i’ve only seen columbia in an international relations/humanities sort of light)</p></li>
</ol>

<p>medkid - the program is geared towards phd’s. however that doesn’t stop about 60+% of the current vagelos freshman class from being premed. (as i am myself.) the program is excellent in providing you with science training & research opportunities but you have to balance that against your ability to keep your grades up in the difficult required coursework.</p>

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<p>thanks for you very helpful, authentic and detailed response. i doubt i want to be pre-med but to get a phd in a shorter amount of time would be ill. also, i might want to transfer to wahrton if i decide i like econ or something.</p>

<p>haha oh no I just heard the program was rigorous.
“30-40 students and they graduate around 10-15 seniors”… probably because they change majors or didn’t want the workload.</p>

<p>I’ve decided I want to do this program so I’ll prob see you next year!!!
haha columbia engineering is mad good like the 3rddd best of the ivies silly (after cornell and princeton) but I feel like this program is great for aspiring research scientists.</p>

<p>do students in the program get beef about being a “vag” scholar? How do you pronounce it? Is it spanish like “vahehlos” or “vajellos” or “vajilos”??? lol u vag scholar you. will they change the scholar program’s name?</p>

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<p>hey there. another penn vagelos freshman here! and yes it is called “vajelos” and our nickname for it is “vag” haha, we have fun with it though</p>

<p>a few facts:</p>

<p>-check out the website! its the first website if you type “vagelos” into google</p>

<p>-the program is not rigorous in itself, but the classes you need to take for it are very challenging. majoring in biochemistry is not easy at penn to begin with, so being in a scholars program is even harder. which leads me to -</p>

<p>-you are required to be a biochemistry major and to either double major or submatriculate in chemistry or physics (earn a master’s degree). most people submatriculate. some very few people manage to pull a biophysics/physics major.</p>

<p>-ponzy lu is the advisor. you are required to take a freshman seminar with him freshman year tue and thur at 8am-9am. this is terribly early. he gives quizzes every thur on the science times that you must read on tue of that week and a science magazine that he hands out every week. it is very difficult to do well on these quizzes but everyone does terribly. about 1/2 the class gets some sort of A.</p>

<p>-about 100-200 vagelos letters are sent out every year, only some 50-100 choose to come to penn, then of those, about 30-40 choose to start the program freshman year. about 10 graduate every year. this says something about the difficulty of the program and also about how many students choose that its just not for them. however, they all gave it a shot and for those who arent sure, i think you should give it a shot or at least think critically about it. its not a binding contract.</p>

<p>advice: </p>

<p>-if want to be on a classic biol101/102, chem101/102, phys101/102 track for premed with all the corresponding labs, i would suggest not starting in the program because if you start and decide to stop (which, trust me, is a lot of students), you might find yourself in a rut. ponzy has all of us in 200 level classes freshman year, we dont take any biol 100 level courses and no bio or chem lab ever. sooooo if you are straight premed you might find yourself trying to squeeze those classes in between all the other required classes. however, if you want to be adventurous and challenge yourself, id say, go for it! i mean, youll only be as crazy as i am, haha</p>

<p>anyways, good luck everyone and lemme know if this helped/if you had any other questions! :)</p>

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<p>WOW THANKS FOR THE VALUABLE INFROMATION. COLLEGE DECISIONS CAN BE REALLY TOUGH…</p>

<p>Hahahahahah do you guys know each other :p</p>

<p>Actually i’m really not quite sure if the program is for me. One of hte most appealing attributes about penn is its incredible business school, wharton. I’ve heard of another Vagelos Scholars Program which is extremely similar but allows for a dual degree from Wharton. Do you think it would be a bad idea to do this program for a year just for its accelearted pace / credentials and apply for a transfer to the other Vagelos program?
Or it would it simply make sense to just apply for a dual degree from Wharton? </p>

<p>I am extreemly interested in biotechnology however the fact that this program does not allow for a business degree as well is something to consider.</p>

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<p>Somewhat unrelated…but I read an article by Nick Barr in the Daily Pennsylvanian. It was about Vagelos Scholars. You should check it out–it was really funny. Here’s the link to the article: [The</a> Spin Blog Archive The red Vag of courage](<a href=“http://lamp.dailypennsylvanian.com/thespin/2008/04/16/the-red-vag-of-courage/]The”>http://lamp.dailypennsylvanian.com/thespin/2008/04/16/the-red-vag-of-courage/)</p>

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<p>hahah “Mark my words! One day I’ll be CEO of a big pharmaceutical company, and institutions will beg for their buildings to be smeared with “Vagelos!” I swear — one day I’ll have a fireworks display spelling out my name, and you’ll all be in prison! “Vagelos” will be on the tips of tongues everywhere! You’ll see!”</p>

<p>trojan ur the man thanks for that article bro! hahaha</p>

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<p>So if I decide to try out the program freshmen year and change my mind after one year, the 5 credit units/semester taken during that year should put me ahead in terms of the regular biochem major requirements right? I mean in comparison to those who weren’t in the program.</p>

<p>I’ve looked at some sample schedules for Vagelos and it seems its all science courses…Correct me if I’m wrong but it is that big load of science classes on top of other classes one needs to take to graduate (like art or language class?)</p>

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<p>there is another program with a dual degree in wharton but keep in mind that is two degrees with completely different requirements to be fulfilled in four years.</p>

<p>as for dropping out, you are pretty much right. taking 5 credits will help you out and you will find quite a few that do that if they decide its not for them. as for the science classes and other requirements, my advice is to not worry about it. there is plenty of time to fulfill them, trust me. and many students already come in with their language requirement fulfilled by passing the test. youll find that the science classes you take also fulfill requirements. so, overall, dont worry about it. youll be loving those other classes when you need a break from all the science! haha</p>

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<p>@ jackbauer21 - lol i turned down johns hopkins bme to come do the vagelos program here at penn. it was a surprise decision since i was basically just looking at jhu vs. asu and penn came out of nowhere to claim top spot after i visited all three schools. so the most important part of choosing a school is def visiting and looking at what opportunities you want and what college fits you best.</p>

<p>no they’re prob never going to change the name since roy vagelos established the program with his money and funds our summer research stipends/other vagelos scholar related things.</p>

<p>i actually applied for vagelos life sciences management when i applied to penn (and got into the other vagelos program–how ironic) and it’s completely different. idk how difficult it is compared to vagelos mls–but my lsm friend insists that vagelos mls is supposedly more difficult. i can think of several people in the current freshman mls class who are applying for lsm at the end of this year. the only problem with applying from the mls program is that your gpa may not be as strong as the other transfer applicants.</p>

<p>supposedly there has been a person in the past who has done vagelos mls for a master’s and managed to get a bachelor’s from wharton as well. it all depends on how hard you are willing to work. (:</p>

<p>@ redphoenix
yep, i agree with chen. (: the other thing about the vagelos program is that you can pretty much start with whatever science class you think you are capable of handling and dr. lu will give you the go ahead permit for registration. for example, a bunch of the vagelos freshmen start with organic chemistry in their first semester (completely skipping the year of freshman general chemistry). i know of several people who have started with math 240 their first semester rather than the usual math 104 & 114.</p>

<p>and yes, you will be required to fill all of the college required classes as well on top of all of the science courses (sector classes, writing seminar, etc).</p>

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<p>“ponzy has all of us in 200 level classes freshman year, we dont take any biol 100 level courses and no bio or chem lab ever.”</p>

<p>Does that mean that you guys don’t NEED to take the 100 level or courses or you aren’t ALLOWED to take them and have to take 200 level classes.</p>

<p>Like, would I be forced to take 200 level classes even if I wanted to/should take 100 level classes?</p>

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<p>ah! I just opened up my letter and I was like…what?! top 15% at penn!?</p>

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<p>lol same reaction here</p>

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<p>haha, well, if you got the letter, you are the best of the best as dr. lu likes to say. and yes, with our schedule, we have to take the 200 level courses. with chemistry, we have the choice to start in 101/102 and then move on the orgo. however, you are strongly encouraged to either start in orgo or take chem 15/16, the honors classes. as for biology, you may take 101/102 if you like but good luck trying to fit them in freshman year. starting at a 200 level course shouldnt be bad as many of you are coming in with AP chem, bio, and physics credits. if you go to the vagelos webiste, it has a complete overview of what classes we are required to take. hopefully that will help more!</p>

<p>p.s. illegiblyclear, is that you viv? i dont know anyone else in the program whos from colorado, haha</p>

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<p>@dangerdave</p>

<ul>
<li><p>you’ll be allowed to start with chem 101/102 if you feel that is the best fit for you. another good choice for vagelos students is chem 15/16 which is basically the honors version of 101/102. some students start with chem 241/242 which is organic.</p></li>
<li><p>dr. lu isn’t exactly the biggest fan of biology without chemistry so i’m pretty sure he thinks biology 101/102 is a waste of time and probably won’t let you take it. some people get away with taking bio 121. usually vagelos kids start with bio 202 or 221 in their sophomore year.</p></li>
<li><p>if you want to take physics 101/102 rather than 150/151 you probably don’t belong in this program. alternatively, you could take the honors version of 150/151 which arer 170/171.</p></li>
<li><p>about 90% of the program starts with math 104/114 (or the honors version of 114 which is 116). some students are advanced enough that they jump straight to math 240 (or honors, 260).</p></li>
</ul>

<p>again, it’s all up to you as to where you think you fit in academically. you’re required to take the subjects but the level of class is left up to you. (:</p>

<p>@ chen - jenny actually, lol.</p>

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<p>well, I do not have any AP credits in Chemistry, Physics, or Biology</p>

<p>Also, about the classes, I am not sure exactly what phys 101/102 at an Ivy League would be like. Is there anywhere I can see a syllabus?</p>

<p>I’ve done the physics 201 and 202 courses at a local university, but I imagine it is in no way comparable to courses at Penn.</p>

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<h1>Physics 101: A non-calculus intro to mechanics, with laboratory (1.5 c.u.)</h1>

<h1>Physics 102: A non-calculus intro to electromagnetism and optics, with laboratory (1.5 c.u.)</h1>

<p>found at "<a href="Office of the University Registrar | Penn Student Registration & Financial Services| Penn Srfs;

<p>Sounds exactly like the courses I’ve already taken. but still a syllabus would be nice. The links on Penn’s physics website don’t work for me.</p>

<p>Thanks for the help!</p>