<p>Sorry, this is a rant. Valedictorian and salutatorian were announced this week. My son's GPA is within 2/100 of the maximum (max is 4.34 and he has 4.32) and he was not named as one of the two high ranking students. So, we know there are three kids with near perfect GPA's. What makes this more frustrating is in our school there is no A+, so a 93 has the same value as a 100. My son's four year average is a very high A, so there is a good chance that on a scale of 100, he has the highest average (and based on awards given out over the past three years, that is likely the case). I can understand that they can only name one valedictorian and one salutatorian. I do not have a problem with that. But, it just seems that he should be given some commendation for having a stellar high school career- not just lumped in with everyone else. How do other schools handle this situation? Thanks for listening to my rant. It has just been a very frustrating senior year - a disappointing college and scholarship search and now this just tops the cake.</p>
<p>In my daughter's school, it's even worse. Their GPA is weighted and the intense kids take college and online courses to up their average. So while my daughter had straight As, there were kids who got Bs ranked higher than her (she also decided to take her elective in drama, which wasn't weighted as highly as some other classes). No matter, she got into a great college ED and was voted "most intelligent" by her peers for the yearbook.</p>
<p>D is a senior and her school does it this way -- the top 10 students are invited to deliver a speech to a selection committee. (D is one of the 10.)One is chosen as valedictorian, one as salutatorian. They gave their speeches two days ago and may know by the end of this week.<br>
I think this makes the selection a reflection of the whole student and not just raw GPA. As the differences in GPA get inspected to hundredths of a point, the differences between number 1 and 5 aren't that great and sometimes there is no difference between numbers 1,2, and 3.<br>
Back in my darks ages I was #3 of some 750+ seniors. I know that your son's hurt is great right now, but it will pass. I am very successful and I don't think it would have any different had I been V or S.</p>
<p>My daughter's school has a "valedictory group." Any kid with a 3.9 GPA and higher is in this group (we don't weight grades or recognize A+, so no one has higher than a 4.0). The school only started naming the valedictorian when our flagship instate public created a 100% tuition scholarship for No. 1 -- and the valedictorian is not mentioned at graduation or ever formally announced.</p>
<p>I used to scoff at this method. But now that I see how hard these kids work, and hear about cases like your son's, I've grown to like it more and more. When the difference between the top kids is so minimal, why not honor all of them? Anyone in the valedictory group is welcome to speak at graduation at my daughter's HS. The speeches have to be short. After attending two graduations, I find that I like hearing from a group of students as opposed to one or two, getting different perspectives. It encourages them to be creative in their speeches.</p>
<p>LWMD, do the other 8 get recognized as top students or just the two selected as val. and sal.? I just think it is ridiculous to highlight only two students when there are several students with basically the same GPA after 4 years. I would not be surprised if the number 4 student is equally as close. For four years the school has been saying they don't rank and then they announce just the top two. I think it would be a lot fairer to announce the top 5 or 10 and then choose two of them to speak as is done at your daughter's school. Unfortunately I need to keep my mouth closed because of my other kid's going through this school.</p>
<p>This is the reason the naming of valedictorian and salutatorian has become both meaningless and conflictual.
Some schools have resolved the problem by naming many valedictorians ( ie. the top 15 students ) because they realize that a .01 difference in GPA is irrelevant. But this creates the situation we see on the admissions board where colleges are reported to have turned down a high school's valedictorian for admissions--but we aren't told that there are 15 valedictorians for that school.</p>
<p>I have tried to get my district to award degress as colleges do--summa, magna, etc. This recognizes the best students (especially if a thesis is required), but does not make meaningless distinctions and encourage "grade inflation and student groveling".</p>
<p>Yes, he probably should not have taken orchestra and band since they are not ranked courses.</p>
<p>My kids' school has done away with Val and Sal for exactly the reasons described above. It has just become TOOOO complicated to figure out who really has the best grades when compared to actual classes taken -- (An A+ in AP Physics is more meaningful than an A+ in an "AP Lite" course.) </p>
<p>Frankly, I am glad that they got rid of these distinctions. The school also refuses to "rank" because of this and because only bright kids are admitted to the school in the first place so someone ranked in the lower 50% would rank in top 10% at a public.</p>
<p>Exactly the same method as OP at our school. A TINY difference. And you guessed it, my D is #3. She got into her dream school ED and said she loved being 3rd. No one was "gunning" for her spot (they will re-calculate after finals but she doesn't anticipate a change) no fretting over a speech. Just perfect.</p>
<p>At our high school, grades are unweighted and on a 4.0 scale. This includes AP courses.</p>
<p>If you have a 4.0 GPA and have taken at least 1 AP course, you are named a valedictorian. In a class size of approximately 450 students, there are usually 15-17 kids named as valedictorians. Both my daughter and her boyfriend will be valedictorians this year. Most of the valedictorians will have taken 3-4 AP courses, although you do have those that work the system and only take 1. My daughter has taken 6.</p>
<p>The valedictorians give a "group speech" that they have been working on since the beginning of second semester. Each one has a part in the graduation ceremony.</p>
<p>I have mixed feelings about all of this - ours is a competitive college-prep high school, and there are many bright, hardworking kids. I grew up with the concept that there is only one person ranked first academically, but I'm softening a bit. It is difficult to get a 4.0 at our high school, so it seems appropriate to me for all of those kids who have accomplished that to be recognized at graduation.</p>
<p>My D's school has also gotten away from naming a val etal.I think the way they do it is any kid who gets all A's for the 4 hs years is ranked # 1.I am not sure if there is a minimum amount of honors and AP courses required but the kids that get all A's are probably loading up on these courses anyway.</p>
<p>All the kids who are ranked #1 (and I think it is about 10 out of a class of 790ish) are given the option of submitting a speech for graduation.A committee picks 2.</p>
<p>I didn't understand why they didn't name a Val etal but I do now.</p>
<p>Palermo - My niece transferred ONE COURSE when she moved to a new town between eighth grade and ninth grade. Yep, you guessed it - only students who took ALL courses required for HS graduation were eligible to be Val/Sal. Who makes up these rules?</p>
<p>Frankly does it matter at all?</p>
<p>Valedictorians are rejected from top colleges all the time . . . I was accepted into a university that rejected a valedictorian friend of mine . . . the simple fact is that a number 1 class rank at, lets say, Mideastern Iowa High School means nothing. </p>
<p>Besides, unless you want to follow the example of Blair Hornstein . . . which it looks to me like your fixing to do . . . it isn't going to matter at all. </p>
<p>And regarding complaints about grade weightage, the simple fact is that other students are taking harder classes than some. They deserve a reward for that, and earning a B in an AP or IB class takes much more effort than an A in say, Honors or regular.</p>
<p>I'm not sure our high school uses the V or S word. The kids are ranked but they all have more than 4.0 averages. The difference is some of the brightest math kids took high school math in 7th or 8th grade giving them more high school grades and an ability for more math AP classes.My D has never gotten a B, at the end of this year will have 8 AP's and is not in the top 10. Anyone at school is given the ability to try out to speak at graduation and at an event called class day. There are five kids speaking, mine being one of them. Not all of them are in the top top rankings of their class, but 15-20 kids tried out, and they picked the best 5.</p>
<p>Ds school gives all students with identical GPA opportunity to speak
<a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002336475_garfield15m.html%5B/url%5D">http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002336475_garfield15m.html</a>
Her sisters school also didn't weight grades, but neither did they rank- they didn't have a valdedictorian-.everyone performed in some way. My daughter sang a solo.</p>
<p>Our district records %age grades with weighting for honors and AP courses so it is rare that any two students will have identical gpa's at graduation. And even though honors and AP courses are given +5 and +10 points respectively, our val/sal almost never obtain a 100+ gpa. It is usually in the 98.5-99.5 range.</p>
<p>Every year people are unhappy about this. My DS missed being the val (and getting the $$) because he finished the high school math sequence as a sophomore, then took two years of math at the local U. The university classes were not factored into his GPA. The person named val followed the regular honors math track (for four years of weighted grades) at the high school. Had my son gotten a weighted credit for his university classes, he would have had the higher GPA.</p>
<p>because he finished the high school math sequence as a sophomore, then took two years of math at the local U. The university classes were not factored into his GPA.</p>
<p>this seems wrong
while I do agree with allowing students who didnt take APs, yet still got A's to be recognized, there should also be some provision for the many students who are no longer challenged at their high school and must go off campus to get appropriate classes.</p>
<p>our school district does not rank nor name Vals and Sals (for which I am glad).</p>
<p>I have to admit, when this topic came up a year ago on CC, I was too PO'ed to post. Now it's water under the bridge.</p>