Vanderbilt and Title IX

Colleges and Universities A-Z Vanderbilt University
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<p>My son likes Vanderbilt quite a bit and has visited the school and likes the campus, the students, and the academic/social/athletic life. He is a very likely applicant to Vanderbilt (perhaps even ED). </p>

<p>My son is also a potential athlete at the school for one of its non-revenue sports teams. However, he learned yesterday about the recent elimination of Mens Soccer at Vanderbilt, purportedly for Title IX requirements. My son is now somewhat concerned about Vanderbilt and is fearful that the University is considering the elimination of still more mens sports teams. He really doesn't want to go to Vanderbilt expecting to play on a Varsity sports team and then the team is canned when he gets there. Can anyone shed any light on this and what is really going on with Vanderbilt athletics and what the administration's plans are going forward?</p>

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<p>"purportedly for Title IX requirements"</p>

<p>The easy out for administrators who want to cut non-revenue teams. </p>

<p>They will still have a intermural program to consider, surely he has other reasons to go there if he can't play a varsity sport?</p>

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<p>I wouldnt worry about it. Soccer wasnt an SEC sport -- it was Missouri Valley or something.</p>

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<p>To Opie and 2332,</p>

<p>I think you underrate just how important sports usually are in the life of a Division I athlete and why a casual answer to this question is just not sufficient. I am contacting Vanderbilt directly and talking with people involved with the athletic program about this issue, but I seek greater insight from students/parents/alumni who have more familiarity with the school. </p>

<p>I have read several articles in the last few days about the demise of the mens soccer program and it sounded truly awful and shocking for the kids. Many, if not most, of those kids had been playing soccer for 10 or more years and the Vanderbilt experience was to be the culmination of all of that time, effort, and commitment (few, if any, planned a pro career). And then the rug was pulled out from under them. The college experience for these kids was hugely impacted and now many (if not most) of these kids have transferred out of Vanderbilt to schools where they probably feel like orphans with little to no social or academic connection to the new school. So I am trying to avoid this situation for my son. I want to understand if Vanderbilt's administration is truly committed to the non-revenue mens sports or if those too might be sacrificed for the sake of Title IX or for financial reasons. Any comment and insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.</p>

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<p>We might have been able to be more helpful if you actually mentioned the sport. I read your posts a couple times, so apologies if I missed it.</p>

<p>FWIW, college's comment was very succinct, sure, but IT IS the answer you sought. Read it again.</p>

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<p>VU Alum, </p>

<p>My apologies, but you didn't miss it. I deliberately did not post the sport except that it was non-revenue, ie, not football and basketball. That leaves only baseball, cross country, golf and tennis. Other families may have similar concerns so I thought it better to take a non-parochial approach that could elicit responses that were more comprehensive. My hope was/is that posters like you could improve understanding of what's going on in Vanderbilt athletics and what is expected in the future. </p>

<p>I get the comment about soccer and the MVC, but is this the end of the cuts? Does this mean that all mens sports that compete in the SEC are "safe." Is the NCAA (and whoever else is responsible for this) satisfied that Vanderbilt is now in compliance with Title IX? Does the athletic department have financial woes and does this mean that other sports could be eliminated? </p>

<p>Perhaps I am bit paranoid, but it definitely sounds like the soccer players were very surprised to get nixed. Again, any insight that you or others could provide on Vanderbilt's athletics and its plans for these sports would be most appreciated.</p>

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<p>I can't see them cutting any other men's sport. JMO. </p>

<p>If it's baseball, no chance, Tim Corbin is a god in the making and should be LOCKED into a long term contract yesterday so he can, one day, retire a Vandy coach with a few rings on his very old fingers. (Tim, if you are reading this, thanks for staying. LSU might have been tempting, but we'll take good care of you.)</p>

<p>Cross Country/Track. Male/Female balance. Only risk of dissolution would be because of cost. But that's a remote, remote risk, IMO.</p>

<p>Golf. Male/Female balance. Significant, significant, capital investment in facilities.</p>

<p>Tennis. Male/Female balance. I don't know much about this sport, but there has been strong alum support for facilities. For what that’s worth.</p>

<p>I think the risk you are weighing is quite low. Granted the Men’s Soccer dissolution was not handled well, but I now understand that decision. I totally agree with college, and your take on his comment.</p>

<p>FWIW.</p>

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<p>VUAlum,</p>

<p>Many thanks for the detailed response. Exactly what I was looking for. I plan further conversations with VU athletic folk and will dig into other sources, but let's hope that the Title IX issues have been completely resolved and that the remaining sports are not in any danger of being cut for financial reasonss. My son will visit the school again soon, hopefully conclude that these athletic concerns are non-issues, and then decide on whether to make an ED application based on true factors like academic excellence and personal/social fit.</p>

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<p>"think you underrate just how important sports usually are in the life of a Division I athlete and why a casual answer to this question is just not sufficient. I am contacting Vanderbilt directly and talking with people involved with the athletic program about this issue, but I seek greater insight from students/parents/alumni who have more familiarity with the school"</p>

<p>First off and you're gonna hate me for asking ... Is he truly a Div 1 athelete?
What other schools are being considered? Was there a scholarship on the table? Men's soccer allows for 9.9 scholarships to be divided up among rosters of approx 25 players. Was he offered something from Vandy? Was he invited to walk on? </p>

<p>Could you provide a bit more bio on his play? ODP? Clubside? Tourneys? I've been around the game for 40 years and D1 players are few and far between. Alot of parents spend alot of money for high level soccer play and still end up paying for school as there just aren't that many rides for men's soccer. It's one of the worst sports to pin scholarship hopes on. </p>

<p>What other schools are on the list, who's been in contact? What offers are on the table? </p>

<p>I do understand the needs of an athelete at the college level pretty well. I also understand the needs of the athelete who goes to college and needs an outlet.</p>

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<p>Opie, </p>

<p>No worries on your questions and my apologies if I offended on your knowledge/understanding of how college athletes view their college experience.</p>

<p>Re my son, he is not a soccer player. My previous comments were only about what happened to the soccer players on the Vanderbilt mens team and my understanding that many of them have transferred out in order to continue their college soccer life. My concern is what would happen to the mens programs that remain (baseball, cross country, golf, and tennis). </p>

<p>While the sport is not the main driver for his college decision, it is a consideration and understanding the school's position on these programs is, in my opinion, a legitimate question. He is considering a variety of other schools (and perhaps could not compete for all of these schools), including Duke, Princeton, and Virginia. The academic strength and th social fit will likely dominate his decision, but he would also like to have a fulfilling athletic experience as well. Ideally, this means competing on a Division I sports team although the athletic strength of these schools varies widely. </p>

<p>P.S. I spoke to some athletic folk earlier today at Vanderbilt and came away from the conversation pretty comfortable that the soccer situation was unique and that further cuts in the mens sports are very, very unlikely. College2332 had it right earlier that the MVC affiliation was a major factor in the decision to cancel soccer. None of the remaining mens programs compete in conferences outside the SEC.</p>

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<p>"While the sport is not the main driver for his college decision, it is a consideration and understanding the school's position on these programs is, in my opinion, a legitimate question. He is considering a variety of other schools (and perhaps could not compete for all of these schools), including Duke, Princeton, and Virginia. The academic strength and th social fit will likely dominate his decision, but he would also like to have a fulfilling athletic experience as well. Ideally, this means competing on a Division I sports team although the athletic strength of these schools varies widely. "</p>

<p>Well, I'm glad you weren't offended thanks. It would help if you told me what sport. Let's assume for the time being it was soccer, using my S life as an example.. a good player, premere level, strong, fast, skilled and intelligent. Realistically a D3 lock, D2 good posibility and unlikely D1. </p>

<p>A NMF, his third choice college offered basically a full ride (95%). His first and seconds offered about 70% and created a difference of around $30,000 overall. Chances were certain at school 1 & 2 he'd make the sides. He went to #3. At tryouts, hurt his feet a bit and ended up being 26th on the 25 man roster, that was senior laden. The last cut at 1:30 a.m., I think I took it harder than he did. </p>

<p>I felt guilty about taking the extra money for school for a while and keeping him off a roster. He felt fine after about 24 hours and went about seeing about more to life than an NCAA athelete. Within a couple of days he was a college radio station DJ, joined the waterpolo team. He joined choir, he participated in a bunch of stuff. </p>

<p>He was invited back to spring ball and we went down to watch the alumni (included 3 all american players recently graduated) game. He played very well, held his own and certainly was able to compete. Post match, the coach comes over and introduces himself with a handshake and I quote "How did you enjoy (S name) first game as a (Mascot)?" He was all smiles and handshakes and looking forward to having him next fall......</p>

<p>Until two weeks later when he got fall class schedules. He cut my S. </p>

<p>Bad grades? Not enough credits? NO just the opposite. </p>

<p>S is dean's list, pre med and name fraternity scholar last year for this particular college. So why'd he get cut? Science majors have labs that often take place during practice times (one day of the week) and to quote him from the conversation he had with my son "you're too much of a student for my team, I want soccer players first, students second." Which at that point was fine with my S, he could play, but he's at a $35k a year school to be a student first and he knew it. Besides the players hate this coach, guess why? So that fall he started playing lacrosse and loves it as the lacrosse program and coach works around being a student. </p>

<p>My point is this, while your son may play a certain sport now, college also can entroduce your son to other sports to try. There's always something for an athelete to do at college. While it is great to say I played D1, 2 or 3 ball, leaving with a degree is really what your there for. If he didn't make the team in one sport, would he still want to be there? Would he try something different?</p>

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<p>Opie,</p>

<p>Very enlightening story and sounds like your son learned many valuable lessons, albeit at the cost of some personally disapppointing moments. Kudos to him for not dwelling on the disappointments, for finding new outlets where to devote his talents and for realizing that "life goes on." His story sounds a little like Archie "Moonlight" Graham in Field of Dreams where not making the major leagues was perhaps the luckiest break he (and the many others he touched as a result) ever received. There is so much more to college than just playing a sport and a lot of truth to the cliche of when God closes a door, he opens a window. Furthermore, I could not agree more that the whole reason for going to school is to get the degree. </p>

<p>From what you describe, our sons are at similar athletic levels in their respective sports and probably also similar academic levels. My son has already made the decision that, while he would be able to play and excel in his sport, he does not want to attend a D2 or D3 school (looked at Williams and instantly knew that such a small school, while great academically, would not give him the college experience that he was seeking). While academics and personal fit will be the most important factors, my son is not locked on a single institution and believes that he could be happy and have a great four years at any of his top choices. </p>

<p>The decision to attend a DI college may mean that my son is not going to be good enough to play college sports and he is ok with that. However, he does want to try and the opportunity to play his sport at the school may be a tip factor as he decides where to apply early. Given that, he wants to be confident that his sport is not about to be cancelled and that was the original motivation for creating this thread. </p>

<p>Many thanks again for the obvious time and effort that you put into your responses and all the best to you and your son.</p>

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<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>It also sounds a bit different from the first post. I thought it was a done deal for Vandy. However, it sounds like he's keeping his options open for schools to a certain extent. Is he sure he doesn't want to attend a smaller college? There are some real advantages (class size, professor time, etc..) to the smaller schools. Plus they tend to write bigger checks for scholarships. </p>

<p>Good luck in your search and it always comes down to this after his choice is made... your college experience is what you make it. </p>

<p>Cheers.</p>

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<p>
[quote]

Cross Country/Track. Male/Female balance. Only risk of dissolution would be because of cost. But that's a remote, remote risk, IMO.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>As far as I remember, there is no men's track team at Vanderbilt, which is one of the main reasons why I didn't go there even though it was quite high on my list.</p>

<p>EDIT: Not that it mattered, since the school I ended up at cut the program this year, too.
I'm just amazed at how many great programs have cut their track teams recently: SMU (one of the all-time powerhouses in men's track and field), Tulane, Rice, Vanderbilt, Utah, Marshall, who's next?</p>