Theft, assault, and other acts can be either misdemeanors or felonies, as well as in violation of college student conduct rules. So are you saying that if a student is accused of a simple assault that is being prosecuted as a misdemeanor by law enforcement / DA / courts, the college can also take the case to consider whether to suspend or expel the student, but if the student is accused of an assault with a deadly weapon that is being prosecuted as a felony, the college must not do anything to decide whether to suspend or expel the student?
2 Likes
No, I suggest colleges limit their own enforcement to minor conduct against the school or its property and include a section in the school conduct code that a judicial verdict of guilt or no contest pleading will lead to various sanctions, which could be detailed.
Unlimited authority for schools, of course,for academic violations-cheating, plagiarism, forgery of transcripts-areas in which schools have expertise.
1 Like
Case 1: student accused of misdemeanor assault against a school staff member.
Case 2: student accused of felony assault with a deadly weapon against a school staff member.
If, in both cases, the student is being prosecuted for the crime in question, do you think that the school should be able to use its own process to suspend or expel the student? If it is different in each case, explain why.
This is turning 50 shades of gray into black and white. The facts are, we really donât have any, except two very drunk people having sex. What actually happened in the bedroom, weâll never know. She has no memory of the incident, in fact, she couldnât even remember who she was. The dude was present at the party, so itâs safe to assume he was consuming large amounts of alcohol. How muchâŠwe have no idea. He was obviously too drunk to drive, because he was in an Uber.
We have a statement from a highly intoxicated alleged victim with no memory of what happened. A statement from an intoxicated defendant who alleges he was just as drunk. And we have statements from intoxicated friends, which amounts mostly to heresay. There are 40 unanswered phone calls that took place in the space of a couple of hours. And a rape kit, which does prove sex happened.
Keep in mind that weâre only hearing one side of this story. Iâd like to read the full report to hear the defendant from his point of view. There may be credibility to his story, because, after all, the university ruled against expelling him after the investigation.
2 Likes
Colleges arenât adjudicating felonies. A felony is a crime generally punishable by a year or more in prison, or sometimes even death. College disciplinary hearings are not criminal trials. The colleges have no power to imprison wrongful actors for even a day. Criminal due process standards do not apply.
A college should not shirk its responsibility to the rest of the community just because a studentâs alleged behavior is particularly egregious and may also subject that student to a criminal action.
1 Like
The issue when discussing these situations is that terminology matters. Accused, arrested, charged, prosecuted etcâŠ.
Although people often forget or dismiss it, our judicial system starts from âinnocent until proven guiltyâ. At what point should a student be considered for suspension or expulsion?
The filing of a title 9 claim doesnât prove anything. Itâs an allegation, nothing more.
2 Likes
I am confused by those who are supporting the attacker in this case. He was not severely intoxicated according to everyone else present including his close friends. He was able to go about his evening after this happened and drink more. The victim face-timed with someone while this was happening and was sobbing and incoherent and the assailant proceeded to attack her again. She rejected him multiple times earlier in the evening and he still thought she wanted to have sex with him? There was no misunderstanding.
6 Likes
Whaaaat??? Iâve been in many Ubers not drunk. Last time I checked, being drunk wasnât required to take an Uber.
Yikes.
3 Likes
"A witness account from Râs close friend who had been with him both prior to and immediately after the incident testified that R had not been severely intoxicated, a finding that can be logically corroborated by the fact that R attended several parties after leaving my room and stayed out partying for more than five hours after raping me. "
2 Likes
For those asking how they can help support Fran:
- Read Frans story and share it with your people (link in bio)
- Comment on the Hustler site so Vanderbilt hears you!
- Talk to your kids. Evidence of attempted bystander intervention made all the difference in Franâs case. Her friends knew what to do and they showed up.
- If you want to learn more, check out this book: https://www.sexualcitizens.com and this website: https://www.knowyourix.org
2 Likes
More obviously, have a conversation with your student about the risks of blackout drinking. This student could easily have ended up dead or with severe permanent injury from going home with a stranger met at a downtown bar while severely compromised. She could have walked into traffic, fallen and hit her head, entered the wrong uber/car, been dumped on the side of the road-the possible injury to herself or others is clear.
5 Likes
Absolutely! Frankly, I was surprised that her friends all left her alone with R and went to the bathroom. To quote an oldie but goodie, ânever, never leave your wingmanâ .
3 Likes
Exactly. Clearly the friends did not see it as their job to protect her. Perhaps it wasnt-we donât know what the arrangement was when they went to the bar. I assume R did not forcibly drag her out of the premises screaming. Did she ask her friends to intervene to stop her from leaving willingly?
2 Likes
Her friends seem to have lost track of her, they were looking for her according to the article and once they realized she was gone called and facetimed her many times along with R. It is not clear if he forcibly removed her or if she was so intoxicated that he just steered her out of the building.
1 Like
Have to wonder if it would be a good idea (where legal) for parents to privately supervise their soon-to-go-to-residential-college kid drinking one drink at a time until drunk (and taking video and breathalyzer after each drink) so that they can feel the effects and know their limit, so that they wonât find out (sometimes with disastrous consequences) at a party in college. Add the usual warnings about not trusting drinks served by anyone else without a liquor license, or drinks that have been left unattended.
Vanderbilt Hustler? Really? Time for a name change.
5 Likes
It does bring back the conversation of home introduction of alcohol and normalization of small amounts of drinking like in europe where these kind of things seem less common. But that may be perception rather than reality
2 Likes
This makes about as much sense as having them down ever-larger doses of oxycontin until they stop breathing, while you stand by with the Narcan, so that they can find out what their âlimitâ should be.
3 Likes
No, itâs true. Jews have ritual wine at the table on Friday nights and holidays. We donât tend to make a big deal out of drinking, we certainly donât prohibit it, and in general, we have a much lower rate of alcoholism. But no one is trying to get drunk, or teach the kids their limits with alcohol by plying them with alcohol! Itâs just a few sips, if that much, and frankly, if itâs not sweet wine, theyâre usually not interested.
Oh wow.
8 Likes