Vanderbilt versus Rice?

Student has been accepted to Vanderbilt, Rice, Brown, Johns Hopkins, Emory and UM. Student does not qualify for any need based aid. Student is interested in attending medical schools (i.e., to conduct medical research or to become a treating physician). Student is also interested in international relations. Out of pocket costs differ by $5,000.00. Which school would you choose and why?

I personally would choose Michigan out of all of these choices. Med schools only care about GPA’s and MCAT’s and a higher GPA is much more probable at Michigan. Based on ease of courses I would say UM>>Vandy>Emory

However most premed students do not complete the required coursework and change majors and/or careers. If this is the case,I would prefer a school in which fosters the idea of discovery and ease of change, making it easier for students to change majors and career paths without much turmoil. Emory>Brown>Vandy

This would be my thought process (chronologically):

  1. Eliminate UMich- I have nothing against public schools, but I personally prefer smaller schools, more personalized attention, smaller classes, etc.
  2. Eliminate Vanderbilt- This is totally subjective and down to me not wanting a social scene dominated by greek life.
  3. Eliminate Emory- As much as I enjoy Atlanta and find the campus absolutely beautiful, I feel that academically it isn't quite on par with Brown, Rice, and Johns Hopkins.
  4. At this point, things would get pretty tricky for me. Sense I view all of these remaining schools as more or less academic equals, it really boils down to fit.
  5. Eliminate Johns Hopkins- In terms of pre-med, I would get turned away by their reputation for intense weed-out courses and more competitive student body. Also, I'm not the biggest fan of Baltimore and the area immediately surrounding campus, so that would be a negative for me. Overall a fantastic school, but for several other reasons I would eventually eliminate it. Relevant: average GPA is a 3.38 (2015).
  6. Now, it's a complete toss up. After gleaning all that I could from written sources, I would have to attend admitted student days to make a final decision.
  7. Eliminate Brown- Yes, they are known as the "happy ivy," have an open curriculum, and have extreme grade inflation (3.63 average GPA in 2012) that would help some with med-school, but after some deliberation I would come to realize that it simply isn't the best fit for me. Even though I am liberal and really enjoy the collaborative/laid back environment, I just couldn't (I've personally visited) picture myself there. However, there honestly isn't much I can say against Brown apart from maybe slightly lacking pre-med advising and not the nicest of dorms.
  8. Enroll at Rice- This would have been an exceptionally difficult choice, but for me it would be the right one. That is because of...

Location: Rice is located in an awesome part of Houston—the Museum District. This is a beautiful area with tons of greenery and places to explore, including several museums, parks, theatres, and the Houston Zoo. Also, I do believe that Rice students are given free access to the zoo and nearby museums with the Passport to Houston Program. Apart from that, Rice is also right next to Rice Village—a fun, medium-to-up-scale shopping district with tons of shops, places to eat, and some nightlife. (Torchy’s Tacos, Ruggles, The Chocolate Bar, Star Pizza, and Oh My Gogi! are all great, popular eateries.) If Rice Village isn’t enough, there is always the Galleria (a massive shopping center) a few miles away with a shuttle running to it.

Houston itself is an incredibly diverse city and boasts the second most Fortune 500 companies. Considering Houston is also the Energy Capital of the World, internship opportunities of practically all types are fairly easy to find. Switching gears, if following sports is your thing, or you are simply looking to catch a game every now and then, Houston has got you covered with some pretty good teams (Rockets, Texans, and Astros).

Research: This is where I think Rice truly excels, especially, but not only, for pre-meds (cough 87% med school placement rate cough). The significance of the Texas Medical Center cannot be overstated. When it is the largest in the world and houses fantastic institutions like MD Anderson (#1 Cancer Hospital), Baylor College of Medicine, Houston Methodist, and Texas Children’s, it shouldn’t be ignored. Additionally, Rice also seems to have a very strong relationship with BCM (they almost merged a few years back) and sends many of its grads there. I can also confirm how easy it is to get research in the TMC, for multiple friends of mine, as well as myself, have gotten to do research at MD Anderson as high schoolers. Rice also has the BioScience Research Collaborative, which further cultivates the relationship between Rice and the TMC. Here, Rice educators and students work hand-in-hand with professionals from the TMC on leading research in human medicine and health.

On campus research is also widely available (paid and unpaid) thanks to Rice’s 60/40 undergrad to grad student ratio. Furthermore, Rice’s smaller size allows students to form personal relationships with professors, which makes finding research opportunities that much easier. I even remember reading how some CS professors were personally inviting students to do research with them over the summer, but were having difficulty because almost all the students had internships lined up.

Campus: Personally, I find Rice’s campus to be absolutely beautiful. It is almost like a little oasis in the middle of a massive city. The campus is fairly small, but not too constricting. There are large open fields, tons of shaded walkways and resting areas, and a 5k loop around campus that is perfect for jogging. It is a self-contained campus (which I prefer because it doesn’t isolate specific groups) opposed to one sprawled throughout a city. And finally, it just seems to convey this sense of calm energy that makes you feel at home. I highly suggest you try and visit campus, or at least look at Google street view because it’s sight I would hate for you to miss.

Social: As I’m sure you are aware, Rice utilizes the residential college system. This is where freshman are randomly (except for legacy) sorted into one of the 11 different residential colleges on Rice’s campus. These colleges serve as a student’s home over their entire Rice experience, providing an immediate sense of community to entering freshman and act as a social/party unit for all of the college’s members. They really help students develop a sense of family on campus, for nothing brings people together like a little camaraderie and healthy competition against the other colleges. Since the colleges are composed of students from all years, they provide an excellent support structure and place get advice regarding classes, professors, etc.

Onto parties, Rice has a reputation in Texas for throwing some pretty eccentric, odd, and really fun parties–let’s say that none of my friends at Rice seem to be overly bored. Without the presence of frats on campus and with the residential colleges acting as the major social unit, much of that sense exclusivity is eliminated. Rice is also the only wet campus in Texas meaning alcohol is definitely present. Cops are not overly stringent on drinking age requirements (as long as you aren’t driving or making a ruckus) and private parties have mostly free rein. However, just because Rice has two pubs on campus doesn’t mean people are pressured to drink. None of my friends, some of whom don’t drink, have ever told me they felt uncomfortable. Rice being a wet campus coupled with the relaxed atmosphere prevents a divide from forming between drinkers and non-drinkers and actually encourages people to stay on campus to have fun.

Community. I have referenced this a couple times, but not without reason. Rice serves as a community for its students, and it isn’t one built on competitiveness or trying to best the person next to you. Instead, it’s about shared success and the desire to actually learn. Students are encouraged to work together and the generous honor code allows for a bunch of freedom. There will no doubt be some students who never venture out of their dorm room and fight for every point of their GPA, but they are by far in the minority. There’s definitely a reason why Rice is ranked #1 for Happiest Students.

(Part 1 of 2)

(Part 2 of 2)

Common Concerns: Many people seem to be concerned about Rice being in Texas. To this I would like to point out that while Texas is usually a solid red state, all of the major cities in Texas lean left and Rice students in particular voted 90%+ Clinton/3rd party. In fact, in the Architecture building window there was a sign 2 weeks ago that said “No Ban No Wall.”
Another concern prefrosh often have is a perceived lack of diversity due to ~40% of the incoming class coming from Texas. I completely understand why this may seem alarming, but something many people fail to fully grasp is the size of Texas. It actually takes about the same amount of time to drive from Houston, TX to El Paso, TX as it does to cross 3 state borders and drive from El Paso to Los Angeles, CA. There is a wide range of people in Texas and diversity rankings prove this, for Rice is ranked the 5th most diverse college by Best Colleges and 24th by US News (preceded by 4 other TX colleges).
People also often cite the weather as a big concern. While Houston does get pretty darn hot, most of the unbearable weather and unflattering humidity occurs during the summer. In fact, I think the weather during the school year is actually a pretty big plus, because apart from California or Florida, where else can you go the whole year wearing practically only shorts and the occasional sweatshirt? Plus, hanging out outside or in the courtyard is pretty much possible and comfortable all year round. I will concede though that Houston is definitely humid.

I will say that Rice may not be for you if…

You want a social system dominated by Greek life,
You want to go to big sports school filled with “Ra ra ra” enthusiasm,
You cannot stand humidity,
You have to go to a place where it snows,
You can’t handle rice runs,
Or you want to go to a large university.

I hope this was helpful!

I’m a believer in fit vs prestige. Big city, small city, college town? Big school, small school? Climate? Social scene? Research and internship oops? Etc, etc, etc. I couldn’t pick solely based on what he thinks he wants to do.

I agree with everything that @Gh0st3737 said. Rice is very compelling for pre-med.

Both are great schools. If you want a strong greek presence, go to Vandy. If you want a bright, perhaps slightly quirky (smart nerdy) student body, go to Rice.

Please close out this thread.

Has a decision been made?

Not yet. The commitments are due on May 1st. The remaining two schools are Vanderbilt and Rice. The comment by Gho0st3737 was just the kind of information and insight being sought. With that information, I am satisfied with both options. I BELIEVE the student will select Rice. But that is just my perception. I am NOT the parent or the student. I am friends with the student and parent and wanted to get a vibe on what SOME of the folks in CC think about the two schools.

You are satisfied with both options. Sounds like it is your decision, not some third party (and asking “for a friend” isn’t allowed on cc).

Thank you @Gh0st3737 for the very detailed comparison of Rice vs the other schools. My D is trying to decide between Rice and another school. I had her read your posts about Rice above.

“Asking for a friend” is not allowed. Students/parents are encouraged to opent their own account and ask their own questions.

@jym626 Post #13
“If confirming my position is not allowed in CC, I apologize for the infraction.”

ASKING FOR A FRIEND is not allowed, not matter how you spin it. You will likely get your wish (post #7) even though keeping these open so other posters can get useful information or discuss the topic as they wish is beneficial to others, as such threads often get closed.

@Gh0st3737

Thank you for taking the time to provide a comprehensive response. It is greatly appreciated. While I think all of the schools are great schools, the parent/student wanted my opinion on Rice/Vanderbilt. I have not visited either school and I do not have a background in science programs. I encouraged the student to seriously consider both school. So when I thought about the discussion I am going to have with the student later today, I will have some information based on your personal insight. That kind of information is invaluable.

I know I posted this response before…

This student supposedly has a full tuition scholarship to Vanderbilt. Also has some aid to Rice and the cost differential,is $5000 or less.

In addition, supposedly, this student had to full rides to other schools.

This student also,supposedly plans to go to medical,school…

Here is my advice. Any of these colleges is fine. Pick the one where the student will have the least amount of undergraduate debt. If he really attends medical,school…he will have plenty of debt from medical school. No need to have undergrad debt as well.

@carolinamom2boys Post #23
Thank you. I have posted about 86 messages in three years. That includes the four posts in this thread. I stumbled upon CC when my daughter was in high school. She is now a sophomore in college at Barnard College of Columbia University.

A friend who knows that my daughter did a comprehensive college search, who attended college in Russia and England, has a child graduating this year. That student has been someone I have encouraged since she was nine years old. So when the parent called me yesterday advising that they wanted my opinion on these final two schools, I wanted to ensure my perceptions were not skewed.

The student got into every school to which she submitted an application. So I helped talk her through the process of eliminating some schools in early March. Then the last set of decisions came in and they wanted to know what I know about those two schools. My daughter did not consider any school in the midwest or west except Northwestern University.

Personally, I am convinced that students thrive when they are engaged and challenged but not overwhelmed. I believe a great community can be a blessing or a curse. I am convinced the student is responsible and mature. The student had her senior prom last night so she was not on the telephone when her parent called yesterday. While I shared my perceptions with her parent, I thought I would confirm my position through a post in CC. The student is going to call later today, April 23, 2017, to discuss my perceptions. Hence, I sought opinions from those who have experience with these two wonderful institutions. While I appreciate that some people are acting out of ill motive when they post in CC, I was simply trying to confirm my uneducated perceptions before I spoke with the student. :slight_smile:

@twicearound.
I would add that if the student for whom this information is being gathered hasn’t yet visited either campus, that they get on a plane, if at all possible, ASAP and visit. That should have been suggested sooner, especially if $ is a concern, as the schools probably would have helped defray the cost (since this seems to be a desired student), but its the 11th hour now and probably too late for that.

As someone who has been to both campuses, they are beautiful but different with respect to the feel of the student body, etc.

The student has visited Carlton College, University of Florida, Florida State University, Vanderbilt, Rice, Tulane, Emory, Smith, Boston College, Colorado College, and several other fine institutions of higher learning.

There are some folks who know everything about every college; then there are folks like me. I don’t know everything about every institution. My misinformed perception was that CC was a place to go to learn more about colleges, college financial aid/scholarships, and the like, from students, parents, and occasionally, college admins. CC gets rave reviews in online articles about how beneficial the forum is for people who seeks information. My seeking information seems to have struck a nerve with some folks although my only known transgression was to seek information.

Now like others in this forum, when I start a thread, and someone asks a question which I believe is directed to me, I share some information because it is in response to a direct question. My hope is to directly respond to the inquiry. Brevity has value, in my opinion. But some of the comments in this post imply that I should write everything about this student and share it with the world.

What I sought to gain from this post was the type of cogent, thoughtful response posted by @Gh0st3737. I got much more than I hoped for. Some of that “much more” is disheartening because CC has so much positive advice and information flowing throughout the forum. But based on some of the comments in this thread, I am CERTAIN that I will NOT be advising anyone to join CC. The hostility is unwarranted. From the attacks, one would think that I stole something from the homes, cars, and walllets of some of the commenters. It is sad that so few people present an ugly picture for so many readers.