Vanderbilt vs Harvard vs W&L

<p>Hi all. Been reading some of the posts here and think yall might be able to offer some nonbiased advice.</p>

<p>Am a current senior. Play varsity baseball and football at a private Southern boarding school. Mom was Greek at Vanderbilt and my father has his degrees from Harvard. Also have some good friends Greek at W&L now. Aren't all that worried about admission so the advice I'm looking for is what yall would do. Probably gonna be clerking law eventually. Visited all three enough times. Harvard had its pros but a heck of a lot of cons too. Really liked W&L but it's a little in the middle of nowhere. Vandy was great went to a crawfish broil that I liked a lot. Will be doing a fraternity regardless of where I choose but just looking for what some of yall think. Advice appreciated. Thanks.</p>

<p>3.8 GPA
2390 SAT
Extras are baseball and football varsity from soph year. Varsity squash senior year as well
Intern'd with our senator's office last summer with my girlfriend so didn't get all that much done but heck it's on paper</p>

<p>Based on some of the posts I've read some of you might think those three are a little weird together but I'm basically looking for an old money school with tradition. I know Harvard lost that rep about a generation ago with all the minorities and what not and Vandy is losing it quickly but they'd still all be a fit to an extent.</p>

<p>Thanks big guy.</p>

<p>Vanderbilt is looking good for you if you consider solely stats...legacy, great SAT, good GPA. But the EC's are a bit...iffy, shall we say? Are you sure that's all you have? Just a year each of some sports (shows lack of commitment; not good) and one internship? This is the department where you're lacking.</p>

<p>You probably ain't getting into H, but V could go 50-50. I don't know too much about W&L to comment.</p>

<p>Thanks for the reply. "from" infers since. I am a tri-sport varsity athlete and could almost certainly walk on to the teams at Harvard and W&L. Honestly, I appreciate your help, but I'm not too worried about admission to any of the schools. I'm moreso worried about fit. Any help in that region would be great. Thanks again.</p>

<p>Oops, sorry about that. HEy, you definitely ought to contact coaches in case you haven't done so already.</p>

<p>Regarding the schools...have you looked at Duke?</p>

<p>geraldw,
The world has chaged/is changing and "old money schools" are (thankfully IMO) fewer and farther between than ever before. Not sure, but from my reading of your post, it might be helpful for you to explore some options outside of these three and expand your understanding of the world today, not to mention the college alternatives available to someone with your statistical profile. </p>

<p>Harvard has been, is and probably always will be one of finest, if not the finest, brand names in American and world education. The school's environment may not be for everyone and we have all heard the stories about dissatisfaction/grumbling among some undergraduates about Harvard's devotion to grad students at the expense of undergraduates. But the name recognition (and the good and bad that goes with that) is undeniable, as is the fact that Harvard will open more doors nationally and worldwide than perhaps any other institution in America. It is just a fact that in terms of how others will perceive you 5-10-20 years from now, Harvard will have far greater, wider, and longer-lasting impact for you than either Vanderbilt or W&L. If that is important to you, then don't underestimate that factor. </p>

<p>As for Vanderbilt and W&L, you probably already know this from your own research, but there are very few institutions that have changed more (and for the better IMO) in the last two decades. The student profiles of each are now on par with many of the non-HYP Ivies and the undergraduate environments that they offer can often have far greater appeal than more heralded, historic options. </p>

<p>The arrival of women at W&L and Vanderbilt's push to expand to greater diversity (religious, ethnic, geographic) have transformed those colleges and IMO they are now legitimately in the top rank of academic colleges just below HYPSM. They retain some of their traditional "old money" elements, but these are no longer the driving or defining forces on these campuses. Part of this is represented in the Greek scenes at these colleges where I would describe it as still very, very strong at W&L and very strong at Vanderbilt. But the experience that you parents' generation had at these colleges is highly unlikely to be the same for undergraduates today and tomorrow. </p>

<p>Perhaps the single biggest differentiator among these three schools is the athletic scene, which your post would suggest is important to you. If you want to play college sports, then Harvard and/or W&L will undoubtedly be better options and you could maybe walk on there. If you like the allure and the fun of a scene at a top national athletic program, then Vanderbilt would be the better choice as the athletic scene there is vibrant (if you're a southerner, then you know that SEC football games are awesome events) and excellent in certain nationally prominent sports (baseball, men's and women's basketball). </p>

<p>Finally, I will second the suggestion of tetrisfan and recommend that you look at Duke. To that, I will add Stanford, Northwestern, and maybe even Rice. These other options are all outstanding academic schools with great social life and athletic life and IMO provide the best UNDERGRADUATE experiences in the country. You may end up coming back to one of your original three, but if you do the full search (and maybe include some of the top publics as well like U Virginia), you will have a greater appreciation for the nature of the various undergraduate alternatives and why your ultimate selection is the right one for you. Good luck.</p>

<p>If you get into Harvard, I wouldn't turn that down...it still has old money patina. ;)</p>

<p>Duke definitely isn't a good mesh for me. I really am not a fan of that campus or Durham at all. Don't really know all that much about Rice or Northwestern other than that I don't have any real peers that attend them and that's enough for me. Have no interest in going to school in California =/. </p>

<p>Hawkette, thanks for that writeup. I think I'll be OK when it comes to open doors, and if that were a major concern, I'd definitely choose Harvard. I really don't have a huge interest in going to school in the North either, the only factors that keep Harvard in the choices are the legacy and peers issue (good number of guys attend each year out of here). While it probably isn't as great a fit on the whole as Vandy or W&L, through visits alone I know there are Finals Clubs and what not that would work well.</p>

<p>And just to get inside my head a little more to offer any advice, I am naturally a huge fan of tailgating, drinking, and anything that involves not remembering what the heck went on. Here at school they tailgate like our father's did in oxfords and ties while the girls wear sun dresses as the Greeks do at Vandy and W&L. I might walk on for football but probably won't as I'd rather drink Saturday afternoons away on my fraternity house's porch listening to some 80s or good classic rock.</p>

<p>Gerald - I don't think you'd like the social scene at Harvard. You sound like half the guys I knew at Wake Forest, and Wake is just a smaller version of Vandy / larger version of W&L.</p>

<p>you clearly (at least online) are a fit at vanderbilt's greek scene, notably ka, dke, and sae. next time you visit, come by any of those fraternities, introduce yourself, and have a good time. good luck with the decision.</p>

<p>also, wake sucks.</p>

<p>and so does everything above the mason-dixon line. that sounds like woodberry forrest. unless you go to MBA, but i don't think they have squash...westminster has squash but they don't board do they?</p>

<p>Harvard, Northwestern and Duke are all too diverse for you. You should pick Vandy/Wake/W&L.</p>

<p>From collegeboard.com, here are the percentages of students who characterized themselves as white:</p>

<p>44% Harvard
52% Duke
59% Northwestern
61% Vanderbilt
82% Wake Forest
84% Washington & Lee</p>

<p>From a geographic perspective, Harvard is the most geographically diverse. Vanderbilt and Duke look a lot alike and Northwestern too if you flipflop their Southern/Midwestern exposures. Wake and W&L have significantly higher concentrations from the South and Mid-Atlantic states.</p>

<p>What specifically about "fit" are you concerned about......Washington and Lee is notoriously a little less tolerant of people who aren't like them. Its a great school with fine faculty..but I also think its slightly over-rated, depending on what you want to do with your life. Its a great feeder school to Georgetown, George Washington, Emory, and sometimes Harvard Law. But its preppy. If you are at a southern prep school then you likely know precisely what that is all about. So I dont understand why you are concerned about fit. Vanderbilt is just a larger version of Washington and Lee, with Division I sports. It has been more diverse in its admissions efforts. Washington and Lee is not all that interested in changing its traditions. Washington and Lee is a very conservative campus overall. And heavy drinkers. Hard alcohol. And its a huge frat scene. If that is not you, then you better consider someplace else. </p>

<p>Some people from a region of the country (pick one) want to go to college and continue their "heritage". Some people want to experiment and try a new culture and region on for size. Some want the Big City...</p>

<p>With your SAT and gpa you should not have much trouble getting in where you want...but you never know...weird things happen in admissions. </p>

<p>I know kids who went to private prep schools and all they wanted was to ESCAPE that environment and ONLY applied to big state schools: UNC, Georgia, UVa, Auburn, Florida, Maryland to name a few. All are happy and doing well. I know kids who wanted only a small semi rural private college, like Furman or Washington and Lee or Davidson or Sewanee.</p>

<p>Do you want to be studying all the time at Princeton and Harvard, or do you want a social life? Are you social but not a party boy and drinker? Then maybe Furman is better for you. Do you want BIG sports? Then Washington and Lee is NOT for you. Its a dud for sports. Period.</p>

<p>Washington and Lee is great for very smart frat boys who like to do pranks (its a TRADITION at W & L), drink hard alcohol, study hard and then go to law school in DC. That is it in a nutshell.</p>

<p>GERALD - I sense that you are taking for granted that you would be accepted at all of these schools - but you need to wake up a bit - nothing is a guarantee for you - or for any college applicant these days. Just because you may have legacy status at 2 of these schools does in no way say that you are a shoe in.</p>

<p>From your comments - you seem to have an issue with the diversity factor of Harvard - as well as it being in the north. You also sound as tho you would prefer to 'greek it' on the front porch versus contributing to any of these schools. You attitude about the lack of peers at schools outside of your comfort zone is interesting as well - I would think that you would embace he opportunities encompassed in the halls of higher education - at the RIGHT FIT school - seeing as you sound so confident.</p>

<p>As much as I really hate to say this - you sound as tho your best 'fit' of these 3 schools would be W&L - from your description of your social situation. But..... me thinks you need to open your mind and not follow the crowd - but to seek your own place in the academic world. JMHO :D</p>

<p>I'd recommend skipping college altogether. You're more likely to find what you're looking for by getting someone to sponsor you for membership in the Augusta National Golf Club. You sound like Hootie Johnson's kind of guy.</p>

<p>We're members.</p>

<p>Oh, and calling, just saw your post. Thanks.</p>

<p>Yeah I go to Woodberry. Looked at Hampden-Sydney and UVa a little; the only VA school that I really liked was W&L.</p>

<p>I went to SAE's crawfish but also met a bunch of DKE guys. Don't know all that much about KA there but my brother is a KA at Davidson so I'm sure they're good. Thanks again.</p>

<p>geraldw,</p>

<p>Your views are quaint and antique and that's ok. It might even get you qualified as an URM. I think the school that's right up your alley is Hampden-Sydney.</p>

<p>Hampden-Sydney</a> College, Virginia</p>

<p>Or Davidson, but like W&L it's been comprised by the inclusion of woman as students. </p>

<p>Davidson</a> College</p>

<p>No reason to come North at all. Back in the day, Princeton was as far north a southern gentleman would dare venture. </p>

<p>Keep us apprised. Your journey will be interesting. Best of luck.</p>

<p>If you go to Harvard, be prepared for people staring at you as if you just stepped out of a time machine from the 1920's. It does not sound like a good fit. </p>

<p>With those scores and the kind of family money and influence that Augusta membership implies, Harvard might well be a safety. That does not mean it would be a good idea.</p>