<p>I'd agree on Michigan. Vandy is a dang good school, but UM just enjoys a more established academic reputation. Vandy is in the south, which is traditionally not as open to other viewpoints as other parts of the country. I believe Michigan is about 20% Jewish, and it has a very big representation from your part of the country, so you'd feel very comfortable there. It also enjoys more athletic success than VU. Plus, for your major, UM is virtually unparalleled.</p>
<p>As for the individual attention: I applied to schools with 9,000 students, and schools with 40,000, and UM was by FAR the most personal throughout the process; my regional rep inquired about me multiple times, I spoke with professors on campus day, and as we toured a lecture hall, a prof had 150 students yell "GO BLUE!" for us. It was an incredibly motivating experience, and though I didn't end up there, it made me hold all of my other schools to a higher standard.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong, Vandy is an excellent school; but I just feel like you'd enjoy UM more; it's truly a unique experience (and they have the largest living alumni base in the world, an incredible useful tool come job-time).</p>
<p>Good luck</p>
<p>PS~ I'll be attending UCLA in the fall, so I'm pretty unbiased on this one ;)</p>
<p>How is a Jewish person from the Northeast wanting to do business/econ who likes sports not a perfect fit for Michigan? </p>
<p>Back when the Ivy League schools wouldn't accept Jewish people, a large number of them ended up coming out to Michigan. Ever since then, Michigan has had a large number of Jewish people from the Northeast, and also has gained a very good reputation in that area. Also, in economics/business, Michigan is in/near the top 10 (depending on where you look). Some people even consider the business school to be the best in the country. Vanderbilt doesn't crack the top 40 in either category.</p>
<p>Is there any particular reason you're even considering Vanderbilt?</p>
<p>^you just beat me. i was wondering about the same thing. vandy isn't known for econ/business and michigan definitely has better athletics. it looks like the OP withheld some info; otherwise, i don't see why this is such a tough decision.</p>
<p>As far as rankings go, I found this one to be very interesting in that it is the result of surveys completed by the professionals who know most about thier schools and fields of study.</p>
<p>Good luck with your decision - they are both good schools and try not to get stuck on SAT scores as your deciding factor. Remember, at a large university there are many majors (art & music for example) where a students talent may not be reflected in a standardized test score.</p>
<p>"I understand that Vanderbilt is more selective than Michigan.".....Not around here....You may want to rethink that for OOS students....Many, many here who were deferred EA and subsequently waitlisted at UMich were accepted to Vandy RD...yes, weird, but true.....Vandy is MUCH more holistic IMO.......(and I don't really think that UMich cares much about standardized test scores based on the accepted threads on CC)</p>
<p>As far as the OP is concerned, it comes down to two things: fit and curriculum (both reasons my D is going elsewhere).....He will be fine in either place socially (contrary to the rest of the Vandy bashing going on elsewhere), but given that he KNOWS what he wants to do, UMich is probably a better fit for curriculum....BTW, did anyone ever determine if he visited both schools? I can't even imagine ever making a decision like this without doing so....Like comparing apples and oranges IMO</p>
<p>rodney, like most schools, Umich uses a formula - a point system if you will - giving weight to different factors (test scores, GPA, difficulty of course load, essays, etc...). I came across one for Umich from a few years ago where test scores and GPA carried the most weight, so I disagree that they don't consider SAT scores in admissions, but it is not the sole consideration at Umich (or any other school for that matter). Regarding the SAT & ACT scores for Umich posted on this board, 6,000 (+/-) freshman have been admitted to the class of 2012 and I bet there are less than a 100 students (or parents of) who have posted scores here, so I'm not sure that is a fair assessment of the entering class. In addition many liberal arts colleges are doing away with requiring SAT/ACT scores to begin with, finding the GPA is a better indicator of a student's potential success in college. However, this being an extremely competive year, all schools will probably see an increase in SAT scores and GPA's among their accepted class.</p>
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I came across one for Umich from a few years ago where test scores and GPA carried the most weight, so I disagree that they don't consider SAT scores in admissions...
<p>GPA indeed carried significant weight in that system: 4.0 counted for 80 points whereas 3.5 counted for 70. And there were adjustments for school factor and curriculum. On the other hand, test scores were indeed de-emphasized. 12 points were awarded for SAT scores in the 1360-1600 range; and 11 points awarded for the 1200-1350 range.</p>
<p>Michigan dropped the point system in 2004 as a result of the Supreme Court decision, and adopted a more holistic approach for admission evaluation.</p>
<p>Michigan does not really care about SAT/ACT scores. According to the old forumla, a 3.9 student with a 1200/1600 on the SAT got more points than a 3.8 student with a perfect 1600 on the SAT.</p>
<p>thank you Alexandre......I rest my case...Lots of kids around here with over 1400 SAT's and 32/33 ACT's were deferred EA (and then waitlisted) even though they were easily in top 10% of the class (grade deflation kept their UMich GPA's around 3.6-3.7).....But this post is not to examine Umich admissions (again)....It's to give OP advice.....IMO UMich is the better fit for him.....</p>
<p>edit: and yes, I do realize that the point system is apparently not being used anymore, but try telling that to everyone in my town/county/state that was not accepted.....</p>
<p>Alexandre, in the example you gave both students would probably have been admitted. The point is that most schools use some system to evaluate their applicants and its not always just SAT scores alone that indicate the academic profile of a group. However, in certain fields like the pure sciences and engineering I would find it very unusual if the admissions office didn't consider SAT/ACT scores in their admission decisions. But Michigan might also find that there is no difference in student performance within a certain range (ie, 600-800) or perhaps they too are finding GPA is a better indicator of success. All questions to ask an admissions officer, and one reason not to pick a school just on the SAT scores of those admitted. I would however like to remind any Juniors reading this, that SAT/ACT scores do become important factors in scholarship decisions at many schools (I think that includes Michigan), so they are not without merrit.</p>
<p>UMich and Vanderbilt are both amazing schools. My son chose Vanderbilt and, now a junior, is extremely happy with that decision. Fit is a matter of personal preference. Size of school was a determining factor. There is a big difference between school with 6000 students vs. 25,000 students. I've seen this evidenced in a few areas when comparing notes with parents of UMich students. Ease of getting into major (some of the more in demand majors at Mich are hard to get into), Housing issues (at Mich, freshman not getting into dorms or sections of the campus they desire; having to choose housing for the following year almost as soon as you settle into the dorms for the current year), more competition for such things as abroad programs (even the birthright trips to israel are booked up very early at Michigan)--other things, as you can imagine, just related to the size and number of students. My son was very attracted to the sports at Michigan but has been an enthusiastic Vanderbilt fan (who, this year, has I think 3 football players going tothe NFL, not to mention Jay Cutler). He likes being in the southern environment, and decided he didn't want to go to school with so many kids from his hs, this area etc. (from what I understand, most of the new yorkers prefer to live in a a few specific dorms as freshman, join a few similar frats etc.) So there are reasons, aside from some of those mentioned in prior posts, that students can look at when making this decision. Either way, either school, I don't think the OP can go wrong.</p>
<p>Bridie - you comments are sound. From my own offspring's experience, I would think that the following are most relevant: 1) program or major choice - if a student is set on a certain specific course of study - for example, business (Ross is in a league with very few), nursing (Vanderbilt has only a grad program), or pharmacy - obviously Michigan is a better choice; 2) size of school - Michigan's size does not work for everyone - for some, it is daunting and will make it challenging to integrate; and 3) geography - while reasonably cosmopolitan (and a lot of fun), Nashville is a southern city and takes some getting used to from a Northerners perspective. There's no right choice for everyone.</p>
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Ease of getting into major (some of the more in demand majors at Mich are hard to get into)
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I'm curious what are some of these majors? I know it's competitive to get into Ross; less so for pharmacy, architecture, etc. All of these are pre-professional which requires you to apply again in your freshman or sophmore year (unless you are preferred admit). Btw, most of these majors are not available at Vanderbilt so that's another consideration.</p>
<p>I guess some Engineering concentrations have minimum GPA requirements, like 2.7 or 3.0, but that's manageable. Most majors are non-restricted though.</p>
<p>Those are all valid points I'm sure, but not exclusive to Michigan. My D attended a large state university (not Michigan) and transfered to a small school (not Vanderbilt), she has more problems at the small school getting into classes than she did at the university. That just happens, especially for programs or majors where there may be a lot of interest. Michigan has been very up front about not guaranteeing students their first choice housing as freshman, and that too is not uncommon at large universities. Freshman usually don't have much choice - I think its great the amount of housing opportunities freshman are offered through the RC and honors programs at Michigan. But you are absolutely right, if its going to be hard to get into a program of interest, specific major or housing, anywhere, one should know that in advance. From reading the posts on CC for Michigan (have not followed Vanderbilt), the programs are competitive and therefore certain ones may indeed be very hard to get into. On the other hand, my S's classes will be smaller than his current high school classes, and the academic opportunites are just amazing! Sounds like a terrific place, even if there is a dorm full of New Yorkers! Go Yankees!</p>