<p>Posting this on behalf of a friend.</p>
<p>pros and cons of both. Strengths weaknesses, ect...</p>
<p>Overal academic strength: comparable with a slight edge to michigan.
Prestige/national perception: comparable with a slight edge to Vandy.
Strength/intelligence of incoming class: Vandy significantly stronger.
Vandy has an oddly strong freshmen class, comparable to Harvard, Yale, ect. </p>
<p>Vandy acceptance rate: 10.8%
Umichigan acceptance rate: 38%</p>
<p>I would go with fit because there isn’t a significant difference between the two.</p>
<p>Oh and Vandy has better weather. (I hate cold weather :D)</p>
<p>Just a side observation…I don’t think the selectivity and recent “hotness” of Vandy are necessarily in sync yet with prestige. I think many would instinctively think of Duke, Wash U, Rice, probably in that order, and then Vandy and Notre Dame in virtual tie, followed very closely by Emory.</p>
<p>Vandy is superb. Among the key questions for a prospective are whether you can handle (and like) the “Southern” feel and the nature of the fraternity/sorority scene. Although gradually changing in terms of diversity because its reputation is on the rise, I think Vandy is less like Wash U and Rice and more like UVA, UNC, Wake Forest, and even Washington and Lee. I think Duke can go either way depending on your interests and what scene you gravitate towards.</p>
<p>I’m not so sure. Vandy has become increasingly more selective and, while it’s regard/prestige is slightly lagging comparatively, it has still increased a fair bit too. Many people think Vandy is starting to rival Duke as the premier college of the south. (Though overall Duke is still probably the frontrunner right now). </p>
<p>As far as Umich vs Vandy…</p>
<p>Vandy has a huge frat/sorority scene and is known to be a bit more conservative, whereas Umich is more liberal. </p>
<p>Overal I think the two schools are probably fairly comparable but Umich students are a bit more down to earth and probably don’t have as much of the “I got into a selective, elite private school so I’m better than you” mentality that Vandy is some what known for.</p>
<p>Both are great schools</p>
<p>Vandy is much tougher to get into, if that matters.</p>
<p>To be, Michigan has almost become a safety for the top students.</p>
<p>“To be, Michigan has almost become a safety for the top students.”</p>
<p>Actually you have it backwards floridad. Michigan used to be a safety for top students…not anymore.</p>
<p>Michigan has no academic weakness. If a student wants to change a major, whatever program he/she chooses will invariably be among the top 25 in the country. </p>
<p>Academically very few schools can make that claim.</p>
<p>Michigan’s athletics (football and bball) are wayyyyy better</p>
<p>I’m in a similar situation. Which is better for consulting and banking recruitment?</p>
<p>Actually I think “safety” is the wrong category to think about it. Would the vast majority of Ivy admits also get in Michigan? Perhaps, and maybe we’d see a little less of the phenomenon many of us just saw at Wash U with Ivy admits/likelies getting waitlisted at Wash U. However, I think with Michigan (and Cal, UNC, UCLA, UVA) it is more about deciding you want a different type of experience. You don’t necessarily choose Michigan OVER Ivies, but you may choose Michigan because the total package offers something that the Ivies can’t.</p>
<p>“Starting to rival Duke” I think says it all. It’s not there yet in prestige, and therefore on a par with Rice and Wash U but I still think many would mention Vandy 4th in that quartet.</p>
<p>Since these games are being played, let’s play Michigan vs Duke.</p>
<p>I agree with finalchild,</p>
<p>“Safety” isn’t necessarily the right word. However, it is safe to say that many people that apply to the Ivies and Umichigan are rejected from ivies and admitted to Umichigan. Statistically, this is just a reality given their respective acceptance rates. However, for many Umich not as much of a “safety” as it as another great school that offers a lot in its own right. </p>
<p>Just like many people may apply to Vandy and Umichigan, knowing full well they will probably be admitted to Umich and probably won’t be admitted to Vandy. Its not to say Vandy is better, it is just that vandy has a significantly lower acceptance rate. </p>
<p>Vandy has gotten ridiculous as far as incoming class strength and admissions go.</p>
<p>Class of 2016:
10.8 percent — admissions rate (for regular decision students)
14.1 percent increase in number of applications from last year to this year
Middle 50 percent SAT (CR + M): 1470 – 1590
Middle 50 percent ACT: 33 – 35
Percentage of students in the top 10 percent of their graduating class: 96.35 percent*
Average rank in class (percent from the top): 2.77 percent*</p>
<p>Umich can’t touch the class strength of Vandy, but Umich is still good in its own right.</p>
<p>Are we talking selectivity or academic quality and reputation? Vanderbilt is four times smaller than Michigan, and therefore, is going to be more selective. But the academic opportunities and quality available to undergrads are equal at both universities, with Michigan having more academic balance and intellectual diversity. While Vanderbilt may match Michigan in a few departments, it has no answer for Michigan’s CoE or Ross. In terms of national prestige, Michigan and Vanderbilt are both highly regarded. Debating which one is “more prestigious” is pointless. Professional and graduate school placement will be great at both schools as well. </p>
<p>When choosing between those two excellent universities, one should consider financial burden and fit.</p>
<p>“Umich can’t touch the class strength of Vandy, but Umich is still good in its own right.”</p>
<p>It can’t touch it and NEVER will touch it. A class of 6000 freshman yearly says it won’t ever happen. Conversely, Vanderbilt cannot touch the overall academic excellence that Michigan provides, but it is still good in its own right.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t necessarily say school size correlates perfectly with selectivity since the best schools can probably double or triple their class sizes and keep the quality of the student body they enroll in terms of SAT/ACT scores the same. Obviously Harvard can do this many more times than Penn and Penn can do this more times than Vanderbilt can.</p>
<p>Alexandre, debating prestige is “pointless”? Then why all the rankings stuff you post, and all the talk about what schools Michigan edges out or beats by a mile?</p>
<p>Here’s different question. If schools like Vandy and Wash U are so academically inferior, why have their popularity and selectivity risen so sharply in recent years? It can’t be just size. We could name any number of decent, even smaller, schools that have admit rates well over 50%.</p>
<p>I disagree that “Vandy can’t touch Umichigans overall academic excellence.” Overall I do agree that Umich is more academically well-rounded, but Vandy isn’t far behind. Vandy compares to and trumps Umichigan in some fields too. </p>
<p>I also think academic excellence is a pretty personal and subjective matter. If a student feels a small, more intimate classroom setting is going to be better for them, then they should chose Vandy. Also many argue that a big part of academic excellence is being surrounded by top students who can motive and challenge each other, and if this is the case then again Vandy is the clear choice.</p>
<p>I think it depends on what someone wants. </p>
<p>If you have no idea of what you want to study, I might go with Umichigan.</p>
<p>If you know what you want to study and it’s one of Vandy’s more respected field, I’d probably go with Vandy.</p>
<p>If a student is looking for big sports, I’d probably go with Umichigan.</p>
<p>If a student is looking for a smart, top notch student body I’d go with Vandy.</p>
<p>Overal I think the two are largely comparable. The main differences are size and selectivity. Vandy is quite a bit smaller and significantly more selective.</p>
<p>Reddog, I think you’re making a great point. I’m not sure how having top-ranked programs is that important to most undergrads. Certainly it’s not a negative, but in the real-life world of an undergrad how does someone concretely benefit from the 5th ranked Sociology department vs. the 25th? Also, many would argue that in terms of pure education you couldn’t do better than a top LAC, and I’m guessing most of those aren’t in these top 10s in terms of departments. An undergrad may need a couple of really good professors for their area, not necessarily a department of 25 award-winners. You’re not then going to conclude that all things being equal a kid isn’t going to get as good or better education at a Williams or Amherst or Pomona vs Michigan or UNC. This is partly what happens when you compare schools that are really in different categories, and I would suggest that Michigan and Vandy are in different categories.</p>
<p>As far as your scenarios at the end, I would imagine most students want at least several of those items together. Again, I think the generalizations don’t necessarily work for real-life students. Vandy may have a more selective student body but I would guess that at Michigan elite students congregate in certain majors or activities so on a day to day basis a kid could be surrounded by a group as impressive as any set of Vandy kids. On the other hand, I wouldn’t downplay athletics at Vandy either. Basketball usually is very good (mens and womens) and they are strong in other sports besides football and basketball, plus as a SEC school you get to see Alabama and/or LSU come to town for football, UK and Florida for bball, etc, etc. The SEC ain’t half-bad.</p>
<p>I want to major in finance. Waiting to hear from Vandy, Duke, UMichigan(Ross), and Berkeley (in addition to a few Ivies). Accepted: WashU(Olin), Rej: Wharton
Since Berkeley is in state for me, It costs the least $32k. </p>
<p>I have not visited any school. Perhaps the decision will be made for me.</p>
<p>“Alexandre, debating prestige is “pointless”? Then why all the rankings stuff you post, and all the talk about what schools Michigan edges out or beats by a mile?”</p>
<p>finalchild, to me, rankings and prestige are not the same. Rankings are tangible. They measure faculty quality, strength of curriculum, course offering and quality of facilities. A top ranked department or program will generally provide undergrads more of the above than a not-so-well ranked department or program, particularly in Engineering, Business and the sciences.</p>
<p>Prestige, on the other hand, is highly personal and subjective. We each have our own take on the matter. I personally do not often bother bringing it up unless it is in response to someone who makes sweeping comments on the matter. Is Michigan more prestigious than Vanderbilt or vice verse? It depends on whom you ask doesn’t it?</p>
<p>“Here’s different question. If schools like Vandy and Wash U are so academically inferior, why have their popularity and selectivity risen so sharply in recent years? It can’t be just size. We could name any number of decent, even smaller, schools that have admit rates well over 50%.”</p>
<p>Their popularity and selectivity have risen because the USNWR methodology rewards the data Vanderbilt, WUSTL (and several other universities such as Emory) have presented. As a result, they have done well in a ranking that most high school students and some parents value above all else. The problem here is that many universities report faulty darta, or at the very least manipulate data, to enhance their positon in those rankings. Unless the data reported by universities is seriously scrutinized by independent sources for accuracy and consistency, those rankings will not be accurate. Also, at least in the case of WUSTL, they have advertized heavily, flooding high school students emails with frequent invitations to apply. This has a strong effect on prospective students, giving them a false sense of hope and security. Many of those students who are contacted wrongly assume that their profile appeals to the university sending them the invitation apply in the hope that they will be admitted. </p>
<p>Of course, there are other reasons why those two universities have had a meteoric rise in selectivity. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Early Decision. This is a great tool to enhance yield rate and lock in students with very high test scores who would otherwise have gone somewhere else if they were not bound to the ED agreement. </p></li>
<li><p>The Common Application. The results of joining the Common Application on selectivity are clear. Just look at Chicago and Michigan. From 1990-2005, Chicago’s acceptance rate hovered faithfully around 40%. Since joining the common application in 2005, Chicago’s admit rate has dropped from 40% to 10%. Michigan’s admit rate hovered from 50%-55% between 1990-2010. Since joining the Common App back in 2010, Michigan’s acceptance rate dropped from 50% to roughly 30% in three years. The common application greatly enhances the appeal of a university in the eyes of applicants because it really simplifies the process of applying. </p></li>
<li><p>No essays. Vanderbilt and WUSTL are known for not having any essays. This greatly enhances their appeal. Look at Boston College. In the past, BC, like Vanderbilt and WUSTL, had no supplemental essay. All of a sudden, they added essays for the first time this year. They applicant pool contracted by 25%! One cannot underestimate the impact of not having any essays.</p></li>
<li><p>In the 1990s, WUSTL offered very generous merit scholarships to most students with strong SAT/ACT scores. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>In the long term, I think selectivity is a constant. In 10 years or so, virtually all top 30 universities will have similar admissions statistics. Obviously, Harvard, Stanford and a couple others will remain more selective than the rest, but the majority of schools in the top 30 will have similar admit rates, % graduating in the top 10% of their high school class, and standardized test score ranges.</p>