Vanderbilt vs. Rutgers Honors (full-ride)

Colleges and Universities A-Z Vanderbilt University
1

<p>Hey everyone,</p>

<p>I was recently taken off of Vanderbilt's waitlist and offered a spot in the College of Arts and Sciences as a member of its freshman Class of 2017. However, I had already been offered a full-ride scholarship (Presidential) to the Rutgers School of Arts and Sciences Honors Program and committed/deposited there before hearing from Vanderbilt, and am now very unsure as to which school I should spend the next four years at. Here's a summary of my situation:</p>

<p>-I don't have a single concrete (or even semi-formed, really) idea as to what majors/fields of study I truly want to pursue in my undergraduate/graduate studies, and in my future career path(s); all I really know is that I will almost certainly pursue a BA (or preferably and if possible, BS) in some natural science (or perhaps economics) and that law, medicine, and business - in that approximate order of descending preference - are the only three professional paths that I've ever genuinely felt interested in (although it should be noted that I want to have a college experience where I'm exposed to as much as possible so that I can find my true passions, which I feel I currently know very, very little about).</p>

<p>I've never been too clear on whether it's better to go for free to a decent school or to pay a sizable amount to go to a Top 20 school when one is (almost completely) undecided regarding majors/etc; some insight here would be much appreciated.</p>

<p>-Even though Vanderbilt is obviously highly-regarded and Nashville's a relatively large city, I want to make sure that going to school in the South does not restrict my chances of returning to the Northeast (where I hope to spend the overwhelming majority, if not all of my professional life) in any way - I'm not trying to be condescending, but have occasionally heard that Vanderbilt alumni often end up working, etc. in the South. </p>

<p>That aside, I'm sure I'd enjoy the social life, culture, surrounding areas, etc. at Vanderbilt quite a bit more than I'd enjoy those same types of things at Rutgers (New Brunswick). Also, based on what I know, I feel that the research/internship opportunities at the two schools wouldn't be too different - correct me if I'm wrong, though!</p>

<p>-Opportunities to get into (and still be able to afford) the nation's top (ie. Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Duke) graduate programs, especially those in the busiest Northeastern cities is *paramount[\i] in regards to my future goals - whether it be medicine or law (my preferred options) or business (would still appeal), I sincerely want to go to a school that has at least consistent history with feeding into those graduate programs/being recruited by big-name employers, but without accruing a crippling amount of undergraduate debt (this is where the money, which is really the only thing stopping me from immediately choosing Vanderbilt, comes in - more on that below).</p>

<p>-Anyways, here's the financial situation:</p>

<p>Vanderbilt (through grants and Work-Study) is offering me about $33,000 in aid per year - this, with the ~$61,000/year cost of attendance, means that I would be paying about $28,700 per year to attend. I'm not sure whether there are any merit scholarships I can still apply for (or apply after my freshman year there), so $28,700/year seems like it would be the final price to attend Vandy. Based on loan calculators and whatnot, I'd be going into ~$150,000 of debt after four years (my parents says they won't contribute anything, and would rather I take out loans).</p>

<p>Rutgers, on the other hand, is offering to fully cover the $24,700/year cost of attendance for me to attend its School of Arts and Sciences Honors Program, for four years - this essentially means that I'd be attending the honors program for four years for free (excluding what little rises in tuition that might occur). </p>

<p>If I was certain that I'd be going into graduate school (as of now, I'm only fairly confident), then Rutgers would be a no-brainer choice for me. </p>

<p>But I'm a bit worried: does Vanderbilt's prestige superiority over Rutgers (and specifically, over even Rutgers SAS Honors) justify an undecided student's going there over Rutgers Honors? For perspective, my parents make around the $120k/year range and ardently favor my attending Rutgers, but I'm sure they would support my decision either way.</p>

<p>My general question is: given my academic/social, but most importantly financial situation, what reasons (preferably supported by facts/stats, although I would definitely appreciate anyone's opinion just as much) can one come up with for attending either school over the other? In addition to the above factors, I'd also like to add that studying abroad (probably in the UK and China, in no specific order of preference), getting prestigious internships in the Northeast/research anywhere, perhaps winning a Rhodes/Gates scholarship, and (most importantly) not at all limiting my chances of attending one of the very best (ie. Harvard/Yale/Stanford) graduate schools are all rather important in my decision.</p>

<p>Sorry for the super long post, and again: I appreciate with all my heart any advice anyone (attending either of the schools, or even any other school) can give.</p>

2

<p>I’m a Vanderbilt fan and from an academic, social, quality of life, and opportunity standpoint Vanderbilt is the school to go to. BUT, I would not go if it meant $150,000 debt for UG and another $200,000 debt for grad school. 17 year old students don’t know how hard it is to pay off that debt load.</p>

3

<p>This is one of the easiest decisions that I have seen from these types of questions on College Confidential. DO NOT go $150,000 in debt on undergrad. That would be so much more than a huge mistake, I don’t care if we were talking about Harvard. You will enter your working life with a boulder on your head by doing that. Just to add some perspective, it is generally a mistake to take on any more than about $30,000 in total debt from undergrad, so 5x that is clearly insane.</p>

<p>I understand the draw of a school that is clearly one of the best in the world, but college is no different than most things in life, it is a value proposition. And frankly no school is worth $150,000 in debt over Rutgers, which has everything you need to find your passion and to succeed after undergrad. So do your very best at Rutgers, stay focused and disciplined and get a great GPA and you will have a ton of choices as to what to pursue afterwards.</p>

4

<p>I agree. Use the money you save undergrad to go to an awesome grad school. Vanderbilt is wonderful, but nothing beats graduating debt free and being able to look to the future and affording an awesome grad school.</p>

5

<p>I asked this on Rutgers board, I should ask here as well:</p>

<p>Can I complicate the question a little bit? </p>

<p>Presidential at Rutgers vs. about 6K (with work-study) or about 8K (without it) yearly for Vanderbilt that are going to be paid without obtaining any debt? Dreaming of medical career.</p>

6

<p>Well, Vandy is obviously the more competitive school. This is a two-sided coin. Some people thrive when surrounded by and in competition with the very best, others like to be a bigger fish in a less competitive pond. Other factors to consider depend on what you are looking for in a school. Do you prefer the big class sizes and large student body, or the smaller classes and closeness you will get at Vandy? The atmospheres are certainly different, Rutgers will be more “blue-collar” for lack of a better term off the top of my head. Not that it really is blue collar in the traditional sense of that term, but…</p>

<p>Med school aspirations are fairly irrelevant to the decision, as long as you are confident you can make strong grades at either place. You have the opportunity to get an excellent education at either, but the atmosphere in which you will receive it and the non-classroom opportunities are very different in character.</p>

<p>The Rutgers campus is OK, New Brunswick is nothing to write home about. Vandy has a beautiful campus, and Nashville is interesting, depending on your personal likes and dislikes. Maybe being able to catch a train into NYC or Philly is a big deal to you. Greek life is more prominent at Vandy. So on and so forth. Given your financial situation, most people would choose Vandy, but it has to be the right fit for you. Only you can have a feeling for that ultimate factor.</p>

7

<p>@fallenchemist
Thank you very much for your reply! Med school aspiration is actually very important as D would certainly excel at Rutgers, and would most likely have more time for extracurricular activities and research. Vandy’s gpa is going to be lower, and we’re concern that it may hurt admission chances. Although Vandy’s research would most definitely be superior.
College atmosphere - Vandy is one of the best in this country, I won’t even bring that up for comparisson</p>

<p>@Faline2
Thank you very, very much for your private responce with your advice!!! I appreciated all your inputs on this board. I could not reply due to lack of post (need to have at least 15 to engage in private conversation)</p>

8

<p>Financial concerns are a family issue. As for a unique opportunity to spend 4 years in a wonderful academic and social community Vanderbilt wins hands down at is worth some amount of extra cost.<br>
As for the premed issue it’s a difficult choice. Should premeds go to the honors program at their state flagship where you will be the smartest student in the class, set the curves, have no risk of being weeded out, and graduate with a 3.8 with little effort OR should you go to an elite university where everyone in all your classes are as smart as you, overachievers, and the top 1% of test takers in the world where there is risk of being on the left side of the curve? I think the state flagship is safer and easier for premeds but if you make it through Vandy more doors will open for you.</p>

9

<p>bud123 and CollegeFobia - Everything you say about grades and the like makes perfect sense and is very logical, but I think there is one other factor. I have seen over the years that there are 2 types of students, at least in the following regard. Some students that get into a situation where they are easily the smartest in the class tend to slack off and do the minimum required to get an A in that class, and it probably would have been a B at best at a more competitive school. That student instead rises to the competition and in the more selective school does far better work and gets the A anyway, while learning more and sharpening their intellect far more at the same time. Which could really pay off at MCAT time, not to mention the consideration of what a college education should really accomplish overall in any case.</p>

<p>The other type of student is more internalized and does the same quality work no matter what the environment. I have found this type of student to actually be fairly rare, and in any case being around sharper people is almost always a plus for our own development. So making this decision requires that the student be aware of what kind of personality they possess. It is quite possible that selecting a school to be the smartest fish in the less talented pond could backfire, or at least not be the panacea it was expected to be.</p>

10

<p>Sound of Silence has probably made a decision by now, and since her/his parents do not wish to pay their 28 thousand plus ECA at Vandy when she/he has earned a full ride at Rutgers, I also think the best decision is to make your years at Rutgers on your merit scholarship as stellar as possible especially since this student is not clear yet on graduate school pathways.<br>
I wish someone had emphasized with us 8 years ago that A the recession would hit our son’s senior year at Duke, property values dropped (bye bye equity line as a good idea) which was a school that stretched us beyond our budget since he was not a merit recipient there and B taking the Loooong View on graduate school costs is really important when you are choosing between state flagship honors and private schools. Some graduate school pathways can be underwritten (PhDs in hard sciences if you have a good academic record…teaching…) Some graduate pathways are cash/loan only with fewer ways to cut debt load. </p>

<p>Many top grad schools of medicine, law and business consider your costs to be a family responsibility. Dates and rules of financial emancipation from your parents’ FAFSA varies greatly in your twenties at private institutions and at public institutions. My eyes were not on the long view for first child but we wised up in the crash of October 2008. Second son was going to state flagship unless he won significant merit offers in private colleges.</p>

<p>For College Fobia, who may not have made a final decision and who can attend Vanderbilt for only 8 grand a year, or can accept a full ride at an honors flagship university, I think looking at med school choices and costs is the way to go. And 8 thousand a year for an education that is priced out at 60 thousand plus is a pretty darn good prospect.<br>
Pondering long term debt loads coming down the road in four to five more years is important. Will Vandy premed actually put you in a stronger position for med school discounts and options, including options in New Jersey for med school? Will 48 grand from the 'rents in undergrad be something you will regret or is it a wise investment considering the great deal of money spent by Vanderbilt on each undergraduate student? Would your son or daughter thrive in a community of people from all over the nation and find the opportunity to be performance and confidence enhancing in a way that might have longer term benefits?</p>

<p>I enjoyed watching the White Coat Ceremony at Vanderbilt online and in person to see one of my eldest son’s Duke friends put on his white coat a few years ago. We have produced no premeds in our family but it is a joy to see the parents and the students getting their white coats with mentors already assigned to follow them. He pointed out to us that there was a huge range of undergraduate schools represented in the Vandy first year med class. This ceremony goes on in every med school in the nation. </p>

<p>Take a peek at it to make sure you are visualizing the goals and looking at the loooong view because you hope to enjoy a white coat ceremony somewhere in only four or five years. And keep in mind that the peer group this year in particular is made up of top test takers at Vandy. But as I have posted before, you can retake a class at Vanderbilt in order to not let a trip up stop you from your graduate school dreams. Both grades remain on your official transcript. But at Vandy you get to put your second grade only into your reported GPA. I really like this because so many science and engineering students should NOT be weeded out based on issues of poor study habits, delay in maturity or catching up due to one’s home high school being less rigorous (there was a 50% drop out rate in my Duke son’s high school and almost no AP courses so he had to sharpen his game to stay abreast of his classmates), or if you simply made the error of not getting your sleep schedule on track as a freshman. (Sleep is a huge challenge for freshmen…who may not be able to disconnect and establish work routines immediately). My Vandy son dropped a class and went to summer school once due to poor decisions (gone many weekends in competitions and failed to realize he was the kind of person who needed weekends to rest and study)…and Duke son dropped a class and repeated it due to too many rush parties one month, not getting up daily for breakfast as a routine, not treating Duke like a job and not enough studying enough to keep up with the mean of his peers one semester. Sucked it up and made an apt with the Dean of Students, withdrew and next semester completely changed his work habits, lived by a schedule and made a B in the same class.</p>

<p><a href=“https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/events/white-coat-ceremony[/url]”>https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/events/white-coat-ceremony&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>[Vanderbilt</a> Medical School 2012 White Coat Ceremony](<a href=“http://mediasite.vanderbilt.edu/mediasite/SilverlightPlayer/Default.aspx?peid=473d924c492346b7af672e543ff34d801d]Vanderbilt”>http://mediasite.vanderbilt.edu/mediasite/SilverlightPlayer/Default.aspx?peid=473d924c492346b7af672e543ff34d801d)</p>

<p>These sorts of one step back two steps forward experiences are common and there are remedies if you take responsibility and you follow the drop add dates and you are forthright with your advisor and with the Dean of your college. </p>

<p>You do not have to be perfect to wind up with a good GPA at Vandy. You have to be diligent and to be able to run your own race, pick yourself up and use support systems like tutors or underloading when you need it. Many premeds will do things like Physics in the summer once as a strategy to spread out the challenges. There are people on campus to help you succeed. You just have to know yourself or get to know yourself and get familiar with your limits, learning style and talents. There are 1600 ways to get through Vanderbilt and the graduation rate speaks for itself. Although it is not at all as personal an education as a liberal arts college, there are advisors who will truly work with you from day one or find the right person to work with you as you start to propose your own academic path. </p>

<p>Best wishes!</p>

11

<p>Thank you everyone for your inputs!!! Everyone had valid points that made us deliberate a lot. My personal preference was state school as a safer way to go but D decided – Vandy!!! I will support her in her decision. After all, if it is a mistake, she would have to learn from it. That’s all life is about – facing choices and making right decision, isn’t?</p>

12

<p>Vanderbilt has not made a mistake. :slight_smile: They know she can do it. That waitlist looks exactly like the original admit list. Everyone waitlisted can do the work. I hope her personal happiness at Vanderbilt turns out to be wind beneath her wings as she faces challenging classrooms. Nashville is a warm, welcoming town and I know you will enjoy your visits there as parents. Let me know if you need hotel advice. Book that Parents weekend freshman year before long. There are always hotels in Brentwood and near the airport or Briley parkway but it is so nice to walk from hotel to campus from West End or from Division street closer to the Commons and the law school.
The students who were awarded the Founder’s Medals at graduation were Awesome people! But you don’t have to be first in your program to get where you are going…your life as a top student in high school is really no longer what will run your new life. You are only there to be a top version of your own potential now and to be proud of your peers and their talents. My eldest son at Duke had a strength I didn’t really see till he got there and lived among many students who had savant quality talent in one area or another…fantastic in labs or math national champs or debaters far better trained than any he had seen before. You have to be excited about knowing kids with these talents and to realize they are also seeking friendship and support in their four years. Duke son has many friends who had talent far beyond what was predicted on the SAT and the same is true at Vandy. He celebrated them one and all. And is comfortable in his own skin. (I also worried that he might be a bit dwarfed or intimidated and was happy to see the opposite outlook in him.) He graduated with a 3.4 from Duke and that was close to his best as he took quantitative courses. This has not hurt him at all and med school GPA requirements are not 4.0s…You will have people to consult on campus and on this board that know a lot more about premed grade expectations. He has gained a great deal from his Duke alum chapter in a major city and I expect Vandy son will do the same in the two cities he may be living in in the coming year.<br>
congrats on your daughter’s fine choices</p>