vassar vs. kenyon

College Search & Selection
41

Both are great options! You can pick by personal preference, since you can’t go wrong either way.

I never visited Kenyon, though it sounds great. I know both older and recent Vassar alumni very well (husband and friends, plus a young relative who is a recent grad), and I have spent time on campus recently.

You asked about the social feel. Vassar has a really nice social environment. People are friendly and intellectually oriented, and people tend to form lasting friendships, especially with people in their dorm.

Its legacy as a former women’s college may contribute to the fact that not only does it not have any actual frats, but overall it has an inclusive feel to it and not much of a good-old-boy contingent. It is the polar opposite of a frat-dominated college.

Theatre is big and wonderful at Vassar. So is social justice. But you also can find kids who love sports and all types of other interests.

Vassar also is often identified as having some of the best financial aid in the nation and as making big efforts to increase socioeconomic diversity.

42

Thank you to everyone for the advice! I just got back from an overnight at Kenyon and had an amazing time; I felt right at home and knew I would fit in well at the school. I think a lot of the reason I love Kenyon is that I went during admissions programming: a full day spring open house for juniors and an official fall overnight program in which there were many prospective students and many events and meet and greets that helped me make friends with students right away. Kenyon admissions does an amazing job. I will still do an overnight at Vassar just to see what it’s like, because the lack of diversity at Kenyon was noticeable and Vassar seems better in this department. My experience at Vassar will be different since I have only been to a Friday morning tour & info session & during my overnight there won’t be any special programming, but I’m sure Vassar will still be great. Ultimately I will probably apply ED1 to Kenyon because of my love for the school and gut feeling, but I still want to give Vassar a try and will apply regular to the schools mentioned (Grinnell, Carleton, Colorado College, Wesleyan, Bates, Macalester, etc.) so I hope I’ll have some good options.

43

No “axe to grind”. Kenyon College’s issues with respect to drinking have been well publicized for years after the death & near death of some students . At least one found dead in nearby corn field. Kenyon administrators also acknowledge that it is an ongoing issue of a serious nature.

Kenyon’s campus is beautiful, but small.

And, yes, heavy drinking is not uncommon at small, rural, isolated colleges.

44

Regarding the statement “heavy drinking is not uncommon at small, rural, isolated colleges.”

This is true, however the thing to keep in mind (and look for if you are trying to avoid a school with a party/drinking culture) is does the college provide other opportunities on the weekend AND are they well attended. Kenyon’s plays sell out on Saturday nights, and my daughter has gone to several improv shows. They are standing room only—the students attend these activities! Rocky horror picture show, Harry Potter themed fun, a game of murder mystery held in one of the commons are all activities she has mentioned just in this first semester. Of course many kids go to parties afterward (my daughter usually does one of the two weekend nights) but being an athlete she sometimes turns in early or just hangs out in a friend’s dorm after going to the campus activities.

I went to an unranked small catholic college myself, and there were never activities offered on campus like that… or if they were, hardly anyone went. That is the key to look for in my opinion if you have a child who wants to do more than go to parties every weekend. Look to see what the college does offer, AND do the students attend! I tend to think because Kenyon is so rural that administration makes a conscious effort to provide opportunities on the weekends. Schools that have a big city near by often times don’t bother because so many students just leave campus. Another reason that small/rural can contribute to a real sense of community. At least that has been my daughter’s experience so far.

45

The tragic Kenyon death that @Publisher continuously refers to occurred in 2005. That’s quite long ago, and much has changed at the school since then with respect to substance use awareness and education. As parents of current Kenyon students, @2manycollegequestions4me and I have seen our daughters have great social experiences while taking advantage of many extracurricular opportunities that do not involve alcohol.

Drinking related tragedies happen every year on college campuses. Do we paint Penn State, Clemson, Lafayette, Middlebury, Boston University, University of Chicago and UC San Diego all with the same broad stroke, and without consideration of circumstances and statistics? All of these schools have had students die in alcohol related incidents since the 2005 death at Kenyon. Note also, they are not all LACs in rural locations.

Again, any student death is a tragic occurrence. However, I think we need to keep the Kenyon incident in perspective.

46

There was more than just one incident even though just one death.

Do not blame this on me. Just read the recent report by Kenyon College if you think–incorrectly–that this excessive drinking problem has been resolved.

The problem is ongoing according to Kenyon’s own report.

P.S. Ignoring a problem does not make it go away. Kenyon College profs & administrators are doing the right thing by seeking solutions for this issue.

47

Unless Kenyon’s problems can be shown to be worse than the problems on other campuses, then I don’t see how they would be particularly relevant to a student choosing among colleges. Unfortunately, with respect to this, you will find plenty of schools to discuss: http://compelledtoact.com/Tragic_listing/Main_listing_victims.htm.

48

@merc81 I agree. Frankly, the only reason why we are talking about it is because the administration has put it out there as they are proactively addressing the issue. So many other colleges choose to sweep it under the rug and then it fails to be a topic of conversation on these threads. @apple23 And myself both have daughters who are not partiers and who were specifically seeking something other than that when choosing a college. It was a big factor in my daughter’s decision as she wanted a place where she would fit in and find people she had things in common with. Whether or not students do choose to drink on the weekends, you will find that the typical Kenyon student did not come to Kenyon to party. She has met bright, articulate, friendly, warm, welcoming people there who are interested in thoughtful discussion rather than simply making small talk.

49

The post above noted" the only reason we are talking about it is because the administration has put it out there as they are proactively addressing the issue."

We are discussing this because of the publicity that arose after the death of an intoxicated Kenyon College student who passed out & froze to death in a nearby/adjacent to campus corn field that led to the revelation that this is and remained/remains a serious issue at Kenyon College.

Whether one wishes to label this as “proactive” or “reactive”, it is important to applaud the efforts & concern of the Kenyon College administrative staff, professors and students as reflected in the:

Report of the Alcohol Task Force Kenyon College March 2017.

The above report is available pursuant to a Google search.

50

Have you looked at the schools that appear in the link in reply #47? You could post about any of them. But note that the publicity surrounding these occurrences bears little or no relationship to their comparative frequency or deeper causes. For that, you would need the methodology of the social sciences.

51

Niece at Vassar. She loves it but says a lot of weed. Not her thing. But overall absolutely loves it and is also driven by social justice issues. And she is from Manhattan and they rarely go into the City. So much going on for her. But perhaps others do more regularly. I wouldn’t know.

I have no insight into Kenyon but it sounds fantastic too.

Drinking culture is pretty much everywhere. I think the school releasing a report and putting a light on it, probably has had a positive impact. It’s quite honorable they placed principals above negative reaction.

52

@merc81: Kenyon College’s Alcohol Task Force was found in September 2016 to consider and recommend strategies for the Kenyon community to address the high-risk practices and behavior related to the presence and consumption of alcohol on campus.

Rather than guess, why not read the Kenyon College Alcohol Task Force Report of March 2017. It will be easy to cherry pick quotes supporting one’s position but the merit is in the totality of the effort.

Again, I find this to be an admirable reactive effort.

Of course, there is alcohol consumption on almost all college campuses, but it is a more dominant culture on some campuses than others. I believe that it was a Harvard study that defined the major risk factors/prototype schools. Kenyon fits the profile in theory & in fact. Doesn’t mean that every student drinks or drinks excessively or that anyone is forced to drink. On the other hand ignorance is bliss.

P.S. I do not know why this thread was revived by a poster who opened an account to do so. In my opinion, this thread has served its purpose–and has been very informative based on the outside sources referenced.
And, FWIW, the culture continues as reported by the son of a frequent poster who recently visited Kenyon on an overnight visit.

53

My opinion on Kenyon drinking is it felt like a very big thing. Our tour guides talked about the parties, talked about stumbling across campus as security would call out their name, “you okay XXXX”, “I’m fine…” as they went back to their rooms.

All the LAC except the very Christian LAC (expelled if caught dry campus) had a big drinking or dug/drinking culture. The only other schools that did not seem to were commuter type schools like UTD.

They are adults and will have to make their own choices. Good luck to all.

54

I’m happy for the OP that they chose to apply ED1 to Kenyon. It’s a wonderful school. I wanted to post something on this discussion because I feel that there’s some misinformation being put out here, or at least information that doesn’t jibe with my own experience.

I looked at Vassar early on in my college search. It’s a great school, but it felt too much like the private high school I attended in San Francisco. That’s a personal perspective, obviously. My high school teammate is now playing at Vassar and loves it.

My final college choices were Oberlin, Carleton, Macalester, Bates and Kenyon. All great schools. Of these, Kenyon felt the most comfortable for me. I’m interested in the humanities (a likely English major) and Kenyon’s offerings in this area seemed to be the strongest of those colleges. I loved the look of Kenyon’s campus, and after 4 years of high school in the middle of San Francisco, I was also attracted to the rural setting of Kenyon.

As to the drinking culture at Kenyon, some of what’s being presented on this thread doesn’t ring true to me. Of course, there is drinking at Kenyon. But I have never felt pressured to drink, there are many students who do not drink, and I have rarely seen anyone out of control at a party. In fact, Kenyon students seem especially attuned to the dangers of excessive drinking, and we are all educated about the known linkages between alcohol consumption and other problems like sexual assault. I think Kenyon’s administration does a great job in this regard.

As to Kenyon’s Greek scene, I think this may be misunderstood unless you’ve experienced it up close. Kenyon’s Greek organizations are more like community service clubs than traditional fraternities and sororities. Yes, most of the Greek organizations throw parties, but they are open to the whole Kenyon community. Fraternities and sororities at Kenyon don’t live together (generally) and I’ve always found them to be quite inclusive even if you’re not a member. I think they add a lot to the campus social scene.

The assertions on this thread that Kenyon has problems with alcohol consumption are untrue in my experience. I’d suggest - respectfully - that unless you go to Kenyon, or are an alum, parent, or employee, then perhaps you don’t have the highest-quality information to report.

55

@2019kid I’m curious, did you ultimately apply to Kenyon ED? I never saw this thread previously but I went to Vassar a million years ago and loved it. I can’t compare it to Kenyon as I’ve never visited, but I did visit Vassar with my D20 and it still seemed like a great place to me.

56

@maringuy As a parent of a first year, I agree 100% with your assessment. When my daughter was first looking at colleges she was turned off if a campus had a heavy Greek presence. She even questioned Kenyon early on when she read that 1/3 of students participate in fraternities/sororities. She ultimately decided it was a non-issue when she heard from several students things like “The frat guys here are poets” LOL. It turned out to be an accurate description and she has gone to several “all campus” parties thrown by the fraternities. Where on earth can you find fraternities that invite the whole campus? :slight_smile:

57

As a parent of a current Kenyon student - my son doesn’t drink on campus, that’s not this thing. He enjoys the school very much. I think it is up to the person after all who makes decisions! His first roommate transferred after one semester, so obviously it’s not for everyone, but he and his circle of friends sure loves it there.

58

@2019kid I don’t know if the owner of this thread is reading this any more, but my son is very heavily involved in diversity groups such as men of color etc. He has been the DA (Diversity advisor I think) Very social justice oriented since his HS days. You can ask me questions (and I’ll ask him) if you have questions. I don’t know when you have to accept your decisions and maybe you already have chosen one, but I happened to see this just now. Sorry.