Vegetarian Conversion Thread (not exactly)!

<p>I'm glad it wasn't taboo. I really dislike taboos. </p>

<p>I'm sorry if I offended you or insulted your parenting skills...our views are just very different. </p>

<p>I wish I had vegetarian friends....where I'm from, hunting boar and spear fishing are typical weekend adventures. I don't know if you noticed, but in the high school forum I started a Get Healthy Thread...I cut out all junk food for about a month (including A LOT of meat) and became a simple salad kind of girl. I felt so clean and refreshed....unfortunatly the holidays totally mutilated this idea, but I will start again once the New Year rolls around.</p>

<p>Apology accepted to you too!</p>

<p>It's wasn't taboo in the sense that I didn't make a big deal out of it. But, it was clear that it was something that our family just did not do. I tried to be non-judgmental about it while at the same time conveying the firmness of my convictions. I told him things like 'Well your friend Peter's family goes to church on Sunday, and they eat meat. Our family meditates together and we eat tofu' to convey the 'I'm ok you're ok' mentality while at the same time conveying the idea that our family had our own traditions that simply did not include meat, and explaining to him the WHY we didn't eat meat. I was very open about the conditions in which animals are raised and killed.</p>

<p>I have a friend who dabbled with vegetarianism. At one point she took her kids to a slaughterhouse so they would know exactly what it was they were eating. I thought that was very b***sy of her. They didn't become vegetarians, surprisingly, but I always admired her honesty.</p>

<p>Some might think that my son avoided all peer pressure because he was homeschooled. Not true. He did attend preschool and kindergarten and was exposed to meat there, but he had no interest in it. (He did, however, try a sip of milk. He didn't like it.) Later, when he was homeschooled, he attended a co-op a couple of times per week, and he was exposed to the other kids eating meat there too. And of course his neighborhood friends.</p>

<p>So it's not like he lived this extremely sheltered life. I feel good about giving him a strong foundation as far as diet (though he doesn't eat as many fruits and vegetables as I'd like, can you believe it!). But, he really deserves more of the credit, because at any point he could have chosen to eat meat behind my back, and he didn't, not even when his only vegetarian friend started eating meat. I give him the credit for that. He's a really awesome kid. I'm a proud mom!</p>

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<p>surfette, no I did not know about that other thread you started. Thanks for sharing more about your background! No wonder it was hard for you to be vegan! I applaud your efforts to start eating more healthily despite such a lack of support! Cutting out junk food is a HUGE accomplishment!!! You are way ahead of me - I didn't cut out junk food til I was 21, and even then it was only because I had health problems. So for you to be doing that in high school is really commendable!</p>

<p>Yeah there is NO WAY I could ever become a vegan. I drink milk everyday and cheese is one of my favorite foods, but I do plan on eventually cutting all meat, except for poultry, out of my diet. It's a slow process, but I think it will be a good one. But I'm not gonna lie...I will miss the occasional spam musubi. </p>

<p>Do you take vitamins to supplement your diet? My family really isn't very healthy and I haven't taken a vitamin since I was 6 so I am totally in the dark about that. Oh, and do you have any tofu recipes you'd be willing to share? My dad is a great cook but somehow is capable of turning tofu into mushy pudding.</p>

<p>Wow, after all that discussion, it's very surprising to hear that you are actually planning to cut back on meat!</p>

<p>If you plan to keep poultry in your diet, then there is nothing different really, in terms of nutrients...red meat might have more iron than poultry, other than that, meat is meat, pretty much... us vegetarians get our iron from leafy greens, nuts, etc. anyway.</p>

<p>If you ever decide to go vegetarian (which is defined as no meat, with poultry and fish being meat), even then if you keep the dairy and/or eggs, you don't need to worry about nutrients.</p>

<p>It only becomes a concern for vegans, and even then it is quite doable, but just takes a bit more education.</p>

<p>As far as supplements, my family and I do use some 'superfoods' which I think are a good idea for anyone, vegetarian or not, because all of us are exposed to a toxic environment and foods that have less minerals than they used to, due to chemical farming practices. We're not vegans so there isn't really a concern there. Vegans need to supplement with vitamin B-12 because that is the one nutrient not found in the plant kingdom. Well, it used to be found in fermented foods but due to sanitary processing methods, it isn't any more so now must be supplemented.</p>

<p>Yeah tofu is rather bland and can be mushy if it's not done right. But when it's done right it is quite good! Try a tofu dish next time you go to a Chinese or Thai restaurant. They usually have them. A good cookbook for tofu is 'Tofu Cookery' by Louise Haglar. The recipes are hearty (like lasagne, enchiladas, stir-frys, etc.) but they tend to be a lot of work. Some easier recipe books are listed in the 'Vegetarians Only' thread (if you promise to just peek and not start a debate, since that thread was intended for vegetarians only =) ).</p>

<p>I make an awesome Enchiladas Verde - I just cube the tofu, shake the cubes in some flour/cornmeal mixture with a dash of cumin, then pan fry til golden brown, then roll in lightly steamed or softly-fried corn tortillas, roll it up, pour a spicy green verde sauce over it (Like Herdez brand), bake for about 10 minutes, then top with a dollup of sour cream. Serve with refried beans (vegetarian of course, Rosita's makes a good one with vegetable oil instead of lard), Spanish rice, guacamole salad, and tortillas. Mexican tofu! Yum, my son's favorite!</p>

<p>There are also several varieties of veggie burger mixes that mix with tofu.</p>

<p>Where I live, there is a Chinese restaurant that makes vegetarian substitues of all of its dishes. They have everything from Vegetarian chicken fried rice to vegetarian pork. My personal favorite is the vegetarian sesame chicken, which tastes so good, my father once confused it with his regular sesame chicken.</p>

<p>I have been eating all of my pasta dishes lately with Morningstar "Meat" Crumbles, which are little pieces of veggie burgers that are sold in a bag. I highly recomend them for making veggie tacos and veggie wraps.</p>

<p>Yes, lealdragon, I do know what you mean. It's a lot harder to overconsume when each piece is about the size of a peanut. :p</p>

<p>There's a lot of touchiness, pretentiousness tension both ways, and I'm sorry if I ever offended you in the slightest.</p>

<p>And I just want to say that though I was being extremely sarcastic in my previous posts, I do sincerely admire/envy vegetarians. When I hear of animal cruelty and what a bad diet can do, I do see it, but I just don't have the willpower to stop eating meat, because I do love it, so I end up justifying it the other way, and I'll admit to that.</p>

<p>Strangely, though, the less I eat meat, the less I like it. I don't crave meat nearly as much as I used to, actually. I still can't wholly part with it, but...</p>

<p>Hmm. Acquired taste for everything, I guess. Now, for some unfathomable reason, I really love squash, spinach, and carrots... :rolleyes:</p>

<p>I just thought that the extent of the vegetarian defense on this board was a little bit overboard, so reacted defensively (partially out of force of habit, really, since I've been in quite a few arguments over this).</p>

<p>Now I see that it was mostly you, lealdragon! ;)</p>

<p>And yes, I like tofu in most forms. Just not the Western forms, I'm afraid! :D</p>

<p>I think you'll find, lealdragon, that most of the people arguing for eating meat are trying to cut back, at least on this forum. Hey, what did the second link I gave say? Smarter people do tend to be vegetarian, or at least consume less meat. Now, I'm not that smart, but the CC crowd is certainly a bright bunch! :)</p>

<p>"Strangely, though, the less I eat meat, the less I like it. I don't crave meat nearly as much as I used to, actually. I still can't wholly part with it, but..."</p>

<p>Hmmm...very interesting! Sounds like your path to vegetarianism, whether just partially or wholly, is an organic one...seems to be unfolding...just flow with it and someday you just might find....</p>

<p>"Hmm. Acquired taste for everything, I guess. Now, for some unfathomable reason, I really love squash, spinach, and carrots..."</p>

<p>You are the lucky one! Not all vegetarians necessarily love veggies!</p>

<p>"I like tofu in most forms. Just not the Western forms, I'm afraid! "</p>

<p>Yeah, the Asians are a lot better at cooking tofu. They've been doing it a lot longer. But we're learning!</p>

<p>"Now I see that it was mostly you, lealdragon"</p>

<p>Well it started out that there were lots of others, but they seem to have all abandoned me!</p>

<p>"there is a Chinese restaurant that makes vegetarian substitues of all of its dishes. They have everything from Vegetarian chicken fried rice to vegetarian pork."</p>

<p>There are some places like that in Chinatown in Houston. In fact, there are at least 2 that I know of that are 100% vegetarian! Amazing! One is called Kuan Yin. I don't remember the other name. The fake meats are very convincing.</p>

<p>As of late, I have been avoiding meat, though unintentionally. Actually, reading these vegetarian threads has almost changed my perspective. Going veg should be something to think about. :)</p>

<p>^ yes it should!
you should really just try it for even a couple months!</p>

<p>We aren't "meant" to be anything. The human body isn't perfect, and there's no secret key to unlocking the "right way" to make it work. We're just like any other part of Creation--we have our structural flaws. If God or Nature created us perfect, then why do so many old people get back and joint problems? We're not some perfect end of the evolutionary chain. We're still evolving! We haven't quite got the whole bipedal bone structure thing down, and that's why so many people have joint issues. We aren't built to live as long as we do. We're not perfect. So stop insisting that there is "one true way" to feed ourselves...there isn't, because our bodies will always have problems. Cancer and arthritis and all that other crap happen to our bodies for a variety of reasons, namely the lack of perfection in the human machine. Find a diet that minimizes your issues, and be happy, but don't expect any one diet to unlock the "perfect human survival strategy." Get real!</p>

<p>By the way, I'm an omnivore who is planning to become vegetarian someday. Vegan I could never do though :) Dairy!!! I must have dairy.</p>

<p>^^I think that lealdragon is trying to say that a meatless diet is the healthiest diet. She never siad that it is the "perfect" way to eat since there is no perfect way. We aren't immune to arthritis and joint problems no matter what we eat. However, we can do what we can to lower the chances of these things from happening and perhaps a meat-free diet is the best way to do this.</p>

<p>I see. That makes sense. But is it really better to eat no meat at all than to eat the occasional, say, fillet of fish? I'm not very knowledgeable, so could you share the downsides of fish? I see your point with red meats, definitely. I never eat red meat and don't crave it.</p>

<p>I think that lealdragon is trying to say that a meatless diet is the healthiest diet. She never siad that it is the "perfect" way to eat since there is no perfect way. We aren't immune to arthritis and joint problems no matter what we eat. However, we can do what we can to lower the chances of these things from happening and perhaps a meat-free diet is the best way to do this."</p>

<p>Thanks Hepstar. Yes, that is exactly what I meant. Here; I will elaborate:</p>

<p>Diet is but one of many factors affecting health. Attitude, exercise, genetics, environmental factors, karma, etc. all affect one's health. We've all heard of cases of people who drank heavily and smoked 2 packs of cigs a day and lived to 100. Obviously those rare cases must have had either extremely tough genetic dispositions or an ironclad will, in order to offset the toxic effects of known carcinogens.</p>

<p>Likewise, there are plenty of other people who have delicate constitutions and every little thing bothers them. They get exposed to something toxic and they get all sorts of allergic symptoms, and they have to be very careful what they eat all the time just to function.</p>

<p>Then there are those who follow a strict dietary regimen but have such a negative attitude towards life that they are sick all the time anyway.</p>

<p>There is no 'one-size-fits-all' when it comes to diet or even lifestyle. Many people have lost weight on the Atkins diet but to me that diet is horrible and I could never do it. Plenty of other people keep fit with a low-fat vegetarian diet and that is much more appealing to me, so that is what I prefer.</p>

<p>Bottom line is that there is no instant, magic answer that will automatically work for everyone. But, even though there are those rare exceptions like the chainsmoker/drinker who lived to 100, the fact is that MOST people who chainsmoke/drink heavily/eat lots of high-fat meat and junk food DO have their health compromised. The fact is that, DESPITE other factors like exercise and attitude and environment, diet DOES play an important role for MOST people.</p>

<p>There are no absolute guarantees that if you become a vegetarian you will never have any health problems. Ah, if only it were so simple! But, you will be doing yourself something very positive, and dramatically increasing the odds in favor of health and vitality that you didn't even know was possible. You are young right now so probably feel great anyway, but you'd be amazed at how much better you might feel on a lighter, healthier diet.</p>

<p>I don't agree with your statement about the human body machine not being designed for perfection. I believe it is, but abnormal conditions predispose it to illness. I have attended health seminars and learned some interesting facts, such as: The cells in our bodies are continually proliferating and replacing themselves. In 7 years, we have a whole new set of cells. In other words, not a single cell in your body was there 7 years ago! You are all new! There is a psychic blueprint, but even that can be changed. See 'What the Bleep Do We Know?' for more explanation on that. </p>

<p>There are cultures, like the Hunzas, who live in clean, mountain environments untouched by modern society and all its accompanying ills. These people are incredibly fit, hiking up the mountain daily, and live on vegetarian diets composed of raw fresh produce, nuts, and raw goat's milk. These people normally live to be over 100 and keep working and climbing the mountain until the day they drop dead! Many of them live to 120 or more! Yes, it's true! They have ZERO heart disease, stroke, cancer, etc. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that most diseases are caused by poisons we either eat or breathe in. Here's the interesting thing: In recent years, some of the younger Hunzas have left their isolated mountain and moved to the city and started eating the SAD diet. And guess what, now the younger generation is starting to get those diseases that Americans think are normal. They 60-year-old Hunzas are getting sick, while their grandparents are still thriving and fit!</p>

<p>So yes, our bodies actually are designed to regenerate themselves and be healthy. It is our toxic diets and poisonous environments that have screwed things up. Sure, people got plagues and various diseases even before the chemicals introduced by modern technology. But they had other things wrong - they did not practice good hygiene and often their diets sucked. So there are many factors. But, people like the Hunzas are living examples of what IS POSSIBLE.</p>

<p>And, even though you probably can't really think about the future too much (most young people don't) trust me that it DOES catch up with you! I certainly do not FEEL 46! I was like you once and never thought I'd get to 30, much less to 40! I know plenty of young people who are already on all sorts of meds for allergies and stuff, that a cleaner diet would probably help.</p>

<p>And, there are plenty of other reasons to go veg. There is the global warming crisis. See my earlier posts. The single biggest thing people can do, even more important than driving an energy-efficient car, to do their part to decrease global warming, is to become vegetarian! Besides the obvious animal suffering, it is simply inefficient to raise animals for food. Do a search on John Robbins Diet for a New America. He has a couple of books and videos that explain the impact of the meat industry on the planet. Not to mention that there would be much more food available to feed starving children. There are just SO MANY great reasons to go veg - personal health is but one of them!</p>

<p>Global warming might not seem like a big deal to you, but it is YOU and YOUR children who will be affected by it. This planet is heading towards a major climate shift of massive proportions in the next 50 years, unless we change our course drastically. Older people like me won't see all of the changes but YOUR generation WILL. So it's a VERY real thing! Do some research. I just saw a special on Discovery Channel that predicted a major ice age within 50 years if we don't halt the progression. Sorry to sound all doom and gloom, but people, especially YOUNG people, need to WAKE UP and quit letting the older generation f*** their planet.</p>

<p>Getting back to health, no, eating fish once or twice will not adversely affect your health. Of all the meats, fish is the least harmful and in fact to be honest I don't really think it's harmful at all. There is plenty of research that shows fish is actually healthy. I'm not sure if it's because the people who ate fish did so in place of the fattier red meat, though. But I think there were even some studies that compared vegetarians and people who were mostly vegetarian but ate only fish occasionally. There wasn't much difference between those groups. That is, if the fish is not fried - fried fish is definitely not healthy.</p>

<p>As I said, there are many reasons to go veg. If you are doing it strictly for health reasons, and you want to continue to eat fish a couple of times per week, that is totally fine as far as health is concerned. It is certainly far, far healthier than eating any other type of meat, most definitely. Avoid tuna, though, because it has been shown to contain high levels of mercury and mercury is very toxic. Other fish do too, so you might want to do some research on that if you are going to eat a lot of fish. It's because of the poisons in the ocean from toxic dumps. The oceans are quite polluted, unfortunately. So that is a reason to avoid fish or at least be careful about what type of fish you eat. I have no idea which fish is safe - since I don't eat fish that is not something I have researched. </p>

<p>So, for health reasons, no, occasional fish is not bad. People who decide to be vegetarians usually have other reasons as well, including ethics. For me personally, I have a belief that any soul which is advanced enough to incarnate into a body that is capable of running away or swimming away when chased, is too advanced to eat. The easy guideline I personally follow, and is the guideline that defines the word 'vegetarian' is to not eat anything that had a face.</p>

<p>But, each person has to decide for themselves what is important to them. I would advise you to follow your heart and get clear about what YOU want to do. If you want to be MOSTLY vegetarian except for some occasional fish, then bless you! You are WAY ahead of most of the population! If more people do what you are doing, the world would be a better place! Do not be concerned that you are not 100% pure vegetarian - do what you feel comfortable with, get clear on what your convictions are, and then stick to your convictions, while remaining open to possibly making adjustments later if you feel you want to do that. Many people take the 'gradual' road to vegetarianism by first giving up red meat, then later giving up poultry, and the last to go is the fish. There is certainly nothing wrong with that! And even if you decide to keep the fish, as I said, you are still lightyears beyond most people!</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>