It’s all about the value prop. IMO, OOS publics don’t provide good value (with the exception of a rare academic program or two). For a few dollars more – or the same price with merit money – privates offer smaller classes, better advising, easier to get recs, more and better on-campus housing, less bureaucracy. Advising, for example: UCLA lower division students are encouraged to obtain advising from other undergrad students, not faculty, not TA’s.
Just much easier to “thrive” at a private. More benefits for the same price.
Turn this statement around. What benefits does an OOS public offer that a similarly-ranked private does not?
You pay what you pay, good school is good school. Why does it make it better or worse where the school is? But singling out OOS public makes no sense to me.
We can discuss all day long which schools are good/bad and how much people should pay for, depending on what you are looking for. And yes, students can make wrong choices, that’s true for any school or how much one pays.
For example, Stevens is a private school in NJ in-state for us. It costs 82K. UCB/UCLA costs 75K. Regardless of my financial situation, why is paying 82K to attend Stevens doesn’t get the judgment, or paying 80K for USC doesn’t get the judgement, but paying 75K for UCB/UCLA does. I don’t see the logics in that. (note that I absolutely LOVE Stevens)
My son picked Purdue over Stevens, UCSB, UM and a few others. Why should anyone give a nod for Stevens and a frown for Purdue (or UCSB or UM?). Seriously, where is the logics in that? You can list out the reason why Stevens got a nod, but it’s YOUR reasons, not my son’s.
And again, the general statement “easier to thrive in private”, not true. There are a lot of crappy private schools. It really depends on the schools and the students.
D18 went to Michigan, we’re a full pay family from CA. D18 also was accepted to top tier UC’s as well as private schools in the USNWR Top 25.
We chose Michigan over the private schools, because class sizes weren’t large, in fact, the bulk of her classes were quite small. She had at least 2-3 advisors she could see as much as she wanted and she often attended office hours w/o any wait for her professors. And she had equal or better ranked program(s).
And we had a direct flight to Detriot, 4-ish hour flight, and then we would take the Michigan Flyer for about $20 RT from the airport to Ann Arbor. That ride took about 30-35 minutes. So, egress and ingress were easy to A2. Lots of research available, jobs, and she received excellent LOR’s from her professors for grad school apps, all of which were acceptances.
The other thing, she would have finished in 3 years at Michigan, but for her two minors she picked up along the way. She did finish one semester early due to her AP credits, test placement and she had zero class registration problems. Also, housing was plentiful in A2.
And she got to mill around the Michigan stadium field after Michigan beat Ohio State 42-27 in 2021, which she called the best day/time of her life.
I think it depends on how you define advising. I have one child at a UC and another at a large private school. Neither has had a faculty or TA advisor.
I consider academic advising to be those who help students with a four year academic plan, change majors, add a minor, maybe help with course selection along the way. The career centers or pre-professional centers have a different set of “post-college” advisors to help students plan for life after college. In my experience at both the public and private schools, those post-college resources are available, but it up to the student to seek them out and take advantage of them.
My UC student met with an advisor to confirm he was on the right path to graduate in time. He did not use an advisor to figure out what courses to take and when. A couple of times, he had to petition to substitute a required course. In each case, he needed to contact the advisor and set up an appointment.
The private school requires that a student meet with an academic advisor prior to scheduling courses. The advisor sends an email to set up that meeting. Advising meetings may have been helpful for the first couple of times registering for courses but, after that, they are more of a formality. If asked about post college plans, the advisor will send the student to the career center or another department’s advisor. If a student has a major in one college and a minor in another college, they will have two advisors. Similar to the UCs, neither advisor can answer questions about the other department.
Personally, the biggest difference that I noticed between public and private is that the private school will talk to parents while the public school will not.
My son wanted to attend a large research university. Had he not gotten into California schools he liked, his out of state back ups were publics. We do not qualify for financial aide and privates would mostly not be affordable for us. Out of state publics had the R1 research facilities our son wanted and they gave him merit. He had one private school on his list because they could have come back with big merit, but most privates were off the table.
In general, I don’t think private school ‘talk’ to parents without students’ consent. There is law for that.
My kid went to a private college in CA and they never contact us about anything except billing. As such, I don’t event know my kid’s GPA, not alone other things.
Yes, of course they aren’t going to tell a parent how a student is doing in school. However, if I have a question about the university’s processes and procedures and call the private school, they will talk to me. The UCs will cut me off and tell me that my student needs to call.
Yup, this is definitely something I discovered recently. Even financial aid won’t talk to me. In general, I think this is a very good policy - although in terms of financial aid it’s a bit tricky as ultimately I’m the one on the hook to pay the bill
The only reason in my mind for choosing a public university over a private is cost. But things that I value - small classes, individual attention, ability to register without trouble, faculty advising, more resources (apparently you have to stand in line at UCLA even for food , office hours are jammed and you might not get anywhere, odds of getting into research projects are slim to none) those things you mostly find at privates. I would never pay a full out of state cost for a public. If not for my kid’s insistence I wouldn’t have had him even apply for publics. I just think there is a big quality of life difference. You can guess I am fully educated in private schools.
There are plenty of OOS publics that offer very high quality and ROI. As a CA parent, we thought Purdue offered a phenomenal mix of opportunities for the relatively low cost. For certain majors, the UCs are phenomenal value primarily because they offer access to economic centers (say, silicon valley) that just can’t be matched by private schools in other areas (say, Cornell).
Purdue would have been 10k a year cheaper than UCs in state. They have excellent programs, offer merit to out of state students, etc… There’s a lot to like about Purdue.
This is actually one reason why my D23 crossed UC Irvine off her list after visiting a few weeks ago. As a kid who has grown up in Berkeley and commuting by public transit in and out of SF for activities, she was like “there’s no grit here!” I can’t say that being in La Jolla is going to feel gritty, but she figures she can get to it easily and for free on the trolly.
At both private schools and public schools, faculty can do a lot of advising. In some schools, faculty might do very little or only in the major; at others, faculty are primary advisers even for students who haven’t declared majors. My husband teaches at a private university (you’ve heard of it) and is the primary advisor for both pre-declared students and majors. I don’t think his department has a professional adviser on staff, though there are probably academic advising services elsewhere – but faculty are primary advisers. I teach at a master’s-level public university, and we have a professional advising staff, but faculty also do academic advising, especially for students in the major (or who are contemplating declaring). I don’t have assigned advisees like my husband does, but I have a lot of students who have taken classes with me in the past and seek me out for advising. We do almost everything you would think a professional adviser can do – degree exceptions, major/minor declarations, what-if plans, general studies advising, four-year plans, course recommendations, advising re: postgrad plans, and all the rest. The only thing we can’t do is authorize exceptions that apply to majors and minors in other departments.
Faculty and staff in neither private nor public institutions are authorized to talk to parents. The mains difference I see (just comparing my experience with my husband’s in two different kinds of universities) is that private school parents are more likely to contact staff and faculty than public school parents are. But because of FERPA, we’re not authorized to talk to them.
I am laughing at you being shocked for standing in line to get food
Seriously, don’t you wait in line to get food, ever? Food trucks, fast food, even restaurants. What’s so shocking about standing in line in a school cafeteria? I know some private schools have it all, but are they THAT different? Do they have waiters to bring food to the students at every meal?
Have you never seen an inside of a cafeteria at peak meal time? Public or private, doesn’t matter. I worked food service at my Ivy undergrad. Trust me – lines out the door sometimes.
I have/had kids at LACs (two different ones). They are assigned a full tenured faculty member as an advisor day one, even before majors are declared. Once they have declared majors, they transition to full tenured faculty advisors related to their major(s) – multiple if they have more than one major. Both LAC’s did a great job predicting majors based on the students application though (despite not asking for any major preference in their applications and not letting students declare until sophomore year) so at least one of the majors was the same as the person they were assigned Freshman year. These faculty members met 1:1 with the students and not only helped with understanding all the college and major requirements, they acted as mentors and advocates – helped steer them how to talk to professors to get into full classes, helped one of them get an amazing on campus job they would have never known about otherwise, helped secure them paid grants for summer research, etc. It was amazing. I think parents used to public and large private universities have no idea how great advising can be in the LACs, or at least the good LACs.
I have another kid starting in a larger private research university (with a 3:1 ratio of grad and professional students to undergrads). There the pre-major advisor is an administration staff member. I can’t speak yet to how helpful the person will be yet, but at least they reach out before freshman year and create a definite structure and continuity. And once the student picks a major(s), they again get a faculty advisor for that major.
When I attended UCLA (perhaps its better now), I literally had no advisor, pre-or-post major declaration. There was a department where you could make an appointment and see a person who didn’t know you, who varied with every visit. But it wasn’t proactive – that was only if you had a problem or a question and were willing to wait your turn in something that resembled a doctors office waiting room full of people. After major declaration, nothing changed – no faculty member had any official connection to me. I could get to know them through office hours or classes, but that was it. It was a night-and-day different kind of “advising.”
My son met his adviser at admitted student day at Berkeley. They had an advisers panel where they talked about course sequences for the specific majors, then the advisers were at tables all afternoon. He was able to talk to his adviser one on one and got advice about his first semester class, how to make an advising appointment once his dual credit is tabulated this summer, etc…
, office hours are jammed and you might not get anywhere, odds of getting into research projects are slim to none) those things you mostly find at privates. I would never pay a full out of state cost for a public. If not for my kid’s insistence I wouldn’t have had him even apply for publics. I just think there is a big quality of life difference. You can guess I am fully educated in private schools.
I can’t say that being in La Jolla is going to feel gritty, but she figures she can get to it easily and for free on the trolly.