Very bad first quarter

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PRIORITIES:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>DDs health and well being.</p></li>
<li><p>DDs health and well being.</p></li>
<li><p>Everything else.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>What the cc forums provide is an outside look. We have very limited information about your DD but are objective.</p>

<p>You get an A for the therapist. Depression can
be serious and should be the first priority. She is still a child; reduce her
anxiety and consult with the therapist. Your concern about depression is real,
take care of her.</p>

<p>The worst outcome is a depressed daughter at a great college thousands of miles away. I know this is difficult, but try to take a step back and set the stage for her perception of your pride and approval regardless of where she attends college.

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<p>Wow! This is the best advice to an OP that I have read in a long, long time! If were the OP, I would follow this advice to the letter!</p>

<p>I second the recommendation that the part time job be dropped. Applying to colleges IS a part time job itself, and that on top of 4 AP classes is enough to challenge anyone. Grades the first semester of SR year are MUCH more important than any $$ she would be earning, so insist that the job has to go, and allow her the chance to do her best on her finals .</p>

<p>I agree with scidoc. Mood disorders are nothing to fool around with, especially with a daughter who may be thousand of miles away. I think her well being is much more important than grades, colleges, scholarships. It is naive to believe that there won't be losses in those areas as you focus on what gets your daughter on track in terms of depression, anxiety, stress, but it just isn't that important. Part time job probably should go, at least one class that is giving her trouble should go. Look at some local schools, some lower cost options.</p>

<p>I am undergoing a similar situation with my son. He is a junior and having some issues that we are addressing. In his case, however, we did keep the class that brought down his average after extensive discussion with the school, son, therapist, etc. But we know that this is going to probably eliminate merit opportunities, and bring him down a notch or so in college selectivity. So we are looking at schools closer to home than original parameters dictated, and less selective, less expensive, smaller, in light of what has transpired.</p>

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<p>What? Men don't have to learn life lessons? Could you possibly BE any more sexist? Especially not knowing this young person and her career/family plans?</p>

<p>That sounds tough Irishmom--I second the recommendations to cut back on things that don't matter, and a good place to start is the part time job. One nice thing is that college apps are almost over and done with, so soon the stress of all of the administrative overhead will lift. I would suggest that you get her a good local tutor stat--the good news is that AP Physics and AP calc have some synergies so you can probably find somebody competent to assist her in both subjects. Once she feels like she's not failing she might be more likely to get traction on the depression--it CAN be situational, and floundering and knowing that the stakes are so high is very, very stressful.</p>

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The UK schools have very specific entrance requirements--and usually 3 'A's in three academic subjects is enought o gain entrance into the most rigorous program--but you should get on the net and explore what the requirements are for her concentration.</p>

<p>I've been researching Kings and SOAS fairly heavily and did notice that the chances of getting accepted into Botany are fairly high as not many UK applicants want that concentration.

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<p>Geography lesson of the day. Ireland is NOT part of the UK. It is it's own separate little country. It has it's own government, language, schools etc etc. The above post is completely irrelevant (and not a great advert for the US education system). Daughter of the OP is applying to two schools in the Republic of Ireland which has a completely different education system to the UK. The Irish schools leaving certificate is more like the IB. If the OP's daughter will be paying full foreign student fees than she will probably get in with lower grades because this is how European schools make their money.</p>

<p>Irishmom, one more thought. You may want to ask the teachers how other students are doing in the class. At D's school, midterm grades in AP classes are notoriously low. My D has an 80 in AP Calc BC, and an 88 in Lit -- but she is near the top of the class in both. Grades tend to come up as the semester goes on. She doesn't get quarter grades, though, and the transcripts that have been sent out stop at Junior year.</p>

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[quote]
Geography lesson of the day. Ireland is NOT part of the UK.

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LOL! Same reaction here, cupcake. We have a couple of friends who just sent their US kids to Ireland colleges. I always feel awkward prying about requirements, grades, etc. It seems so nosey. But both said high SAT was of utmost importance for acceptance. Each family has one parent born in Ireland & they each own property there. Don't know if that changes the tuition or not.</p>

<p>Good luck, Irishmom. I wish your daughter well. I'd agree that the job should go first & tutoring A.S.A.P.</p>

<p>We had a long talk this morning. I woke up at 8 (ahh, the luxury of sleeping late - D2 is at Disneyworld with her grandfather, so I only had to drag my own carcass around this morning) and D was still home. She turned her alarm off when it went off at 6:30 and went back to bed. And she missed Calculus!</p>

<p>We talked about how she's feeling overwhelmed, and I did my best to communicate that she has the power to make changes. She said she would be disappointed in herself if she quit a class, but I tried to stress that she is not doing herself any favors by taking on too much. </p>

<p>She doesn't want to quit her job - I think it might be the most mindless thing she has on her schedule, to be honest, and she really likes going to work. But I have a call in to her guidance counselor, and I'm sure we'll find our way through this. </p>

<p>Thanks everyone, you've been hugely helpful.</p>

<p>I would not be particularly inclined to ask her to quit the job, any more than I would ask her to quit sports or her favorite EC, were she involved in any of those. </p>

<p>The job, I presume, has its own lessons to teach, and its own value to her. Taking those away as if by reflex could increase her stress by teaching her that good academics means "have no life".</p>

<p>Certainly, I'd use a therapist and I'd talk everything over with the teachers and GC. But I'd be aiming for a comprehensive sort of direction/solution, rather than an excision.</p>

<p>ADad, we felt that our kids' job in HS was to do well in school. They have both taken very challenging courseloads. After spending seven hours a day in classes, and then 4 - 6 hours on homework, plus EC's, there just wasn't time for a job. This girl is carrying a substantial load -- most of us don't work 3 or 4 jobs. It seems unreasonable to me to expect her to go to school all day, spend time on ECs, do all the work involved in these classes, put together college applications and then work part time. Maybe a part time job teaches good lessons, but no one can do everything.</p>

<p>It's my understanding that depression frequently is the result of intense stress over a period of time, so that may have contributed to her difficulties.</p>

<p>sjmom, I wasn't addressing you or your situation. While I respect your viewpoint, and no doubt it worked well for you, not everyone shares your approach, nor does everyone accept the idea that a child must jettison a job, sports, or other outside activities as soon as there are academic problems. </p>

<p>Although four APs is indeed a significant courseload, it is not at all ridiculous IMO. Plenty of kids, including our college age son, had that load at our local high school, plus ECs, plus sports or jobs, and thrived. So IMO the situation requires a comprehensive look by someone who can personally assess the child, her workload, and her other activities. </p>

<p>Any solution, to be successful, IMO is going to require that the child accept it. Imposing a "solution" is not IMO the way to go. And I do not see how removing something that "she really likes" is going to improve her frame of mind. Rather, I think that the child should work with her parents, GC, and therapist to craft a plan that works for her. IMO, that plan could well involve the child keeping her job.</p>

<p>Oh sorry--my bad sexist self who has been a full time working mom/employer for 21 years. Of course there is total equality between the sexes. Girls don't need any special advice on how to blend complicated lives. </p>

<p>Every person needs to find balance between work and family! It's easy! :)</p>

<p>I had a conversation with her guidance counselor at lunchtime. She said D has been in to talk with her a few times about her schedule, and about the hard time she was having in Calculus. D is the only senior in the high school (and there are 500 in her class) who is taking 4 AP classes, and that D has expressed she does not want to give up on Calc just because she's struggling. </p>

<p>GC did let me know that should D decide she doesn't want to stay in AP Calc, they do have an honors level Statistics course (taught by a teacher D adores) that would fit that slot in her schedule. That might be okay, since D is hoping to get a part in the Spring musical (music and theater activities are her primary extra-curriculars), and adding one more thing on to her schedule as it exists might put me in the position of having to make tough choices for her if she won't make them for herself. </p>

<p>Hopefully it won't come to that.</p>

<p>My son was having problems with his AP calc class, mainly because he had gotten around writing out solutions all of his math life, and now the course required mostly write outs. He has never written by hand very comfortably anyways, and had this problem the previous year with chem where the molecular equations needed to shown in detail. Since he is very good at math and understands the concepts well, he was able to focus on his problem and bring up his grade, though only to a "C". </p>

<p>The problem is not in the math course, or his sport, or his comm service. It is not out of the norm for a junior to be starting to take SAT1 prep courses, and he loves to sing in the choir, a long term commitment. Because of some other issues, he is seeing a psychologist and the school counselor is helping him with organizational instruction. It's not any one thing, but he is dropping the ball sporadically because FOR HIM, he has too much to do. Never mind that most of the kids in his school are taking similar and even more difficult course loads. So what that he is good at math and should keep the advanced track. It comes down to needing some breathing room.<br>
When I read that the OP's daughter overslept and missed her calc class, my feeling is that you can't do that in something where you need to intensify your efforts and where you are having trouble, despite all the lip service that you want to do it. In my son's case, it's not the calc that is now giving me trouble. He turned an English paper in late, and is not studying enough for his other classes, which have no flexibility in difficulty level. Something has to go. And I am struggling about this with my son, as it is a painful decision to make. </p>

<p>Also with the spectre of a mood disorder in the wings, it is wise to address this issue and help her learn to deal with it before she goes away to school, since her college list looks like she is not going to be nearby. You don't have that much time to get her into a program to work with her depression, and other issues that may be cropping up. Getting a head start on this allows you to incorporate a system from whatever the college has when she goes away. It is true that a lot of kids take on much more, deal with much more, but if your kid is not doing well with the load something has to go. Otherwise a total breakdown may occur.</p>

<p>Irishmomof2....
glad to hear that the guidance counselor is on the job....and is able to offer up some helpful options.<br>
at our hs, a missed homework assignment or missed lab can really put a dent in one's grade....so, meeting with teachers to really understand the reasons for the grades might also provide more detail for you as mom to help your child.....keeping my fingers crossed (makes typing hard, no?)</p>

<p>maineparent: I know a big part of the reason for her grades is because D gets very nervous when it's time for a test, and there are a lot of them in Calc. She does well on her homework and in-class work, but everything falls apart when it's a test. From talking to the GC, I got the impression that the Calc teacher is extremely inflexible - for example, she does not give partial credit - if at any point in the solution of the problem you make a mistake, the whole problem is marked wrong. That may be entirely appropriate for Calc (I am not a math oriented person), but I know that D would find that a difficult situation.</p>

<p>I'm less worried about Physics because her grades improved from the mid-term to the final quarter grade, and the teacher had only positive comments on the report card. </p>

<p>cptofthehouse: has your S ever worked with an occupational therapist? I have a friend who's S is gifted in Math, and he has a lot of trouble writing, which has made his advanced classes much more difficult, but the OT helped him a lot. </p>

<p>D is the only senior who is taking 4 AP classes. The kids in Calc & Physics are not the ones in English and Euro. I know that she can handle a lot, but I agree that some choices are ahead.</p>

<p>I just wanted to follow up on my comments about the part time job and APs. DS had 7 classes senior year, including 5 APs (Chem, Phys, BC Calc, USH, French). He plays two instruments (regional orch) and was captain or co-captain of 2 academic teams. So I feel safe saying that I understand the workload.</p>

<p>If the OPs daughter really likes her job, then of course it's worth keeping -- kids have to have activities they enjoy. But I don't think it's reasonable to keep the job, do ECs, take 4 APs and complete college apps. If she wants to stay with the APs, then I think something has to go.</p>

<p>Cheers, it's funny to hear you referred to as sexist! Having been on CC for a while, I know something about your life, and I think you've been anything but "the little woman!"</p>

<p>I'm a big fan of calculus in high school, but you should also be aware that in many ways it seems to be a course that you almost have to be developmentally ready for. I took it at age 16 in high school and did well grade-wise, but bombed on the AP exam. I always felt like I didn't quite get it. I took it again in college at 19 having forgotten everything and was amazed at how easy it seemed. My brain just seemed to be mature enough to get it.</p>

<p>My S has done great in all math related courses (and got 790 M SAT, 35 ACT) but is having problems (b-plus problems, not failing problems) with AP Calc. (ok I'm whining, but i figure he's got a good math brain, so I'm silently blaming the teacher). The teacher seems to only understand one way to do problems but is not clear with it, so if my son teaches himself how to do the work but it doesn't equate with her way (even though he gets the correct answer) he gets point off. He's not the only student experiencing this, but he asked us not to make waves with admin. in his senior year (we won't). But it is frustrating. We've offered help, but he says he understands the Calc, he just doesn't understand her system. Fortunately, Math is not his love, but his class rank will go down because (i think) this teacher can't teach AP Calc. Enough!!</p>

<p>Big differences in how it's taught in college also. I remember taking it along with 200-300 others in a large lecture hall (at a state U). I was glad I had calc in HS. My DD goes to RIT and they have small calc classes (about 20 students). </p>

<p>bethievt, my son is in the same boat. Got an 87 in Calc BC which is low for him but he missed 1/3 of the classes (college visits, illness, death in family, etc) and had to teach himself many of the lessons. Teacher only has them hand in homework problems on the day of the test so of course, he leaves it til the end. I'm hoping he learns to change his methods NOW before he goes to college.</p>