<p>There are very few people vote based on reason other wise there was no way President Bush could get a second term. So I don't have any faith in people doing anything better this time either.</p>
<p>"Someone who graduates at the top of a state university class would almost certainly have graduated near the top of a Harvard class as well."</p>
<p>Of course. POIH seems almost blissfully unaware that there are tons and tons of smart people at state universities. For some reason they are tarred with the brush of inferiority. Time to wake up and remember you're in America, not your country of origin.</p>
<p>^^^: Sometime the problems are not visible if you are used to living with it. So Pizzagirl it might be time for you to wake up. At least I might have experience of living in multiple countries and you might never have lived outside of your neighborhood then there is no way our perspective of the situation can be same.</p>
<p>It has nothing to do with problems, POIH. What's the problem with Harvard et al giving lots of financial aid to poor but deserving students? They are a private institution and they can do what they like it. If you don't like it, don't have your daughter apply there.</p>
<p>I think the above poster is right. You're just bummed that she's not a shoo-in because of all of those poor hardworking students who have a chance of social mobility.</p>
<p>Parent, the problem is that you keep saying things that are silly in terms of lived experience here. </p>
<p>First, Harvard and Yale are full of kids from public schools who are kicking the butts of preppies and their "rigorous curriculums" (although there are plenty of preppies who do well there, too). What passes for a "rigorous curriculum" at most schools, public or private, has almost nothing to do with success at an elite university level. The students start out on much closer to the same footing than you imagine, and their innate intelligence and capacity for work and inquiry is much more important than what they learned in high school.</p>
<p>Second, you are sadly mistaken if you think that places like Berkeley and Michigan are educationally inferior to most of the private universities on your daughter's list. (Note: I'm a private university fan. That's why I say "most" as opposed to "any".) There are reasons to choose, say, Georgetown, WashU, or Dartmouth over Berkeley or Michigan, but educational opportunity, faculty quality, and availability of quality student peers are not among them. Michigan and Harvard are much more similar to each other than your local public high school and Exeter are.</p>
<p>ParentofIvyHope, there are not many kids from tough, rough communities who end up at Harvard or like colleges. Those kids who can overcome the obstacles in their way and show that they can do top grade college work certainly deserve every opportunity to do so. So there are selective schools that seek such students. I believe that there was a study some years ago that showed that such students do flourish at Harvard as compared to their peers who go to state schools. Actually, it can much more difficult to go to a non selective state school or tech school than to an ivy league school. It can be very impersonal at such school and there may not be support systems in place that some of the most selective schools have. </p>
<p>However, your idea that state schools should be giving those kids who are disadvantages first crack is not a bad one. One of the issues that state schools have now is if they are serving their supporters (state residents) the best they can. It is really sad and a shame when middle class families cannot afford their own state schools. In some states it does not leave many affordable choices.</p>
<p>POIH, I want to ask you about your original post.
"I just recieved a college list for my D from her CC and all the colleges she could have gone to have been put as dream colleges including
Major: Engineering
Ivies + SMC + NW + Duke + U of Chicago + GeorgeTown + JHU + UCB + UCLA"</p>
<p>Aren't all those dream colleges for just about anybody, though? There's not a single college on this list that isn't extraordinarily selective, and not a guarantee for ANYONE, even if they have perfect SAT's and cured cancer over the summer.</p>
<p>I sense a lot of this thread stems from your consternation that you thought these were all "schools she could have gone to," as if they were locks, and now you've been faced with the reality that she, JUST LIKE THOUSANDS OF OTHER SMART, HARD WORKING STUDENTS OF ALL ECONOMIC LEVELS, have no guarantee of anything.</p>
<p>It sucks. 25 years ago, I got into 3 of the schools listed above (including 1 Ivy) and I didn't sweat it at all. I was smart, had some basic extracurriculars and awards ... over and out. Unfortunately it's not like that today. Such is life, though. Nothing you can do.</p>
<p>"However, your idea that state schools should be giving those kids who are disadvantaged first crack is not a bad one."</p>
<p>The UC admissions system factors this in, & at some of the campuses, gives particular numerical points for that category. So UC already does this, and as a resident of CA, POIH should already know this. Not a new idea.</p>
<p>If I recall, the OP's stats are great (and marite confirmed them in post #32). So, yes, if instate, Cal and UCLA engineering ARE matches, particularly for a female app, but it depends on the essays and ECs. It they come across as contrived on the appl....All other UCs are safeties (10-15% chance of rejection, for whatever reason).</p>
<p>POIH: why does your GC care how many UCs your D applies to? It's absolutely no work for him or her.</p>
<p>Since a college is termed dream or reach if an average accepted student stats is better than your stats. There is a good chance that a student doesn't get accepted to any one of the reaches because that is why these are considered reaches.
Now by adding all the colleges we ever considered in a 12 years of our D schooling were put on that reach category was devastating.
I think the feeling that she might not get into any of the dream college made me real mad and I might have vented the frustration on the board.
I'm getting into my senses now. I'll try to take some time off work during the summer to visit as many safeties as possible with my D to find one or two safeties where she will be happy to pursue what ever she likes to do.</p>
<p>So let us come back to the thread the purpose of which was to let CCers know the interests of D and her inclination to strong private colleges to find colleges that might be a safety for her and where she will enjoy being.</p>
<p>Enjoy your vacation. Yes, just as students in many countries can thrive even if they are not admitted to the most desired university in that country, so too here in the United States a lot of students have a lot of great educational experiences at colleges that are not "reach" colleges for strong applicants. For various reasons, there are still a lot of strong students in a variety of different colleges. Best wishes, as you continue to consider with your daugther where she might apply, in becoming comfortable with a good "safety" college that fits her educational plans.</p>
<p>"Since a college is termed dream or reach if an average accepted student stats is better than your stats. There is a good chance that a student doesn't get accepted to any one of the reaches because that is why these are considered reaches."</p>
<p>That's incorrect. All the colleges you listed (Ivies plus the other elites) are reaches for ANY student, no matter what their stats, simply because there are so many qualified people chasing so few slots.
I think you may be coming from the perspective of -- if you work hard and have the stats, you'll be guaranteed to get into at least one of the top colleges. Sadly, it doesn't work that way.
Are you aware, for example, that Harvard says that 90% of its applicants are fully qualified to do the work and yet they only accept 8%? That's why a Harvard is a reach for EVERYBODY. Absolutely everybody.</p>
<p>I think you might be well served by learning more about the wonderful colleges and universities that aren't necessarily in the top 20 ... And understanding that they may be less prestigious in your eyes, but they are often by no means of lesser quality. Consider the liberal arts colleges. Consider the engineering schools. Consider the women's colleges. There are a lot of great places out there. Good luck to you and your daughter!</p>
<p>It's healthy to vent. Welcome back from the dark side and good luck :-)</p>
<p>Parent of Ivy Hope,</p>
<p>Now that you are getting more into the spirit of things, read "the Meta-Thread for All of Us" and laugh with us.</p>
<p>You have a wonderful daughter, good luck.</p>
<p>Ditto from me. Your daughter will get into a good school.</p>
<p>POIH:</p>
<p>So now the question remains:</p>
<p>Does your D want engineering, and especially bioengineering? Some of the schools on her list are not strong in this area. What size school would she like? What kind of location in terms of weather or proximity to a city? What kind of social scene? Would she be interested in a single sex college or prefer a co-ed one? </p>
<p>While it is good to keep in mind that top schools are a reach for everyone, she does have high stats and thus a good chance of being accepted at a top 20 or even top 10 school. But they are all quite different and she should make a list based not only on her purported chances of getting in but also on other factors.</p>
<p>While most schools will say they don't compare applicants from within a school, to the extent possible, you should understand how many other students from D's school will be applying to those same places. Colleges like to create a mosaic of many different experiences, talents and backgrounds among their entering class. D's app (and especially essays) should reflect what is special about HER.</p>
<p>Post 209:</p>
<p>True, blue. However, just note that bioengineering at even the mid-level UC's have become quite competitive right now. Same for Cal Poly. Know someone with a 4.0, good scores, rejected from almost all the UC's in bioengineering, & Cal Poly, because of the competition for that major & job market. That's why anyone desirous of the sciences at UC should add lots of privates to their list, as POIH's family is doing. (Or not declare at some UC's, seeking a different major initially for admission.)</p>
<p>^^Not declaring engineering is a recipe for disaster at a UC -- nearly impossible to transfer into Eng from L&S. But, I still believe that POIH's D has a 50% chance of acceptance at Cal UCLA, and by definition, a 50% chance of rejection, which in my book is a Match. But, if 'she' was a 'he', I suggest lower probabilities....</p>
<p>btw: a friend's D recently visited both UC campuses for accepted student's day and they basically said that they are trolling for female engineers.</p>
<p>Parent, the whole idea of a safety is that your daughter will have a school she is sure to get in if things just don't work out. She only needs one of those if she picks wisely. The important thing is that it has to be a school that she likes. It is easy to cherry pick the top schools, and oh so enjoyable. It feels so good to tour Harvard and talk about the merits of Princeton vs Yale. The hard work comes in finding that safety. Then maybe two good matches. THen as many reaches as she can do well in tracking and applying. Just keep in mind that the reaches are just that. Her stats might match or exceed the midrange of the reaches, but those schools are reaches for anyone.</p>