Vicious Cycle of College Application!

<p>I'm sorry, but I am wondering whether the D is quite as interested in these colleges as the OP suggests. I am getting the impression that the OP is a prestige-seeker; no bright student who wants engineering would put Chicago on her list after learning that Chicago doesn't offer engineering. </p>

<p>And if the D wants to be in an all pro-choice, non-religious environment, Georgetown is not the place to go. The school requires philosophy and theology courses of all students for a reason. I encourage the OP's D to read the following about Georgetown's Catholic heritage and commitment to its founding, history, and religion: Georgetown</a> University</p>

<p>The OP's explanations as to why the D wants private schools sound to me like the OP's justification for sending D to private school and looking at only private colleges.</p>

<p>OP, my suggestion is to let your D do her own college search. Let her know what you can contribute financially and practically (college visits and all), but then, please demonstrate faith in your D's maturity and ability to pick a college that reflects her needs and desires, not your own. </p>

<p>This will be my only post on this thread, as I fully expect the OP will not take advice from anyone unless it supports the OP's stated goal of getting D into an Ivy. Some people don't want their minds broadened nor their eyes opened; they want only confirmation of what they already know and believe.</p>

<p>the nature of the college application process is only as viscious as students and families choose it to be. Our son chose a far less intense path and is now three weeks from graduation and enrolling in a top notch graduate program. His four year undergrad days have been the best of his life and he is poised and prepared to excel at the challenges ahead of him.</p>

<p>BTW, with the Common Application, he completed 5 of his six applications in one weekend afternoon and spent one evening writing his college essay which sufficed for all six applications. He spent about an hour on one supplemental essay required by Oberlin. Real easy peasy and he was offered $350,000 in scholarship offers!!!!</p>

<p>PS He did spend a LOT of time researching college choices before putting laser jet ink to paper on those apps.</p>

<p>Oh if only my kids could do an essay in one hour!! It's like excrutiating pain when they have to do an essay for school.</p>

<p>
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if you were so happy then why did you attend private college and let your children attend Chicago and WUSTL.

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</p>

<p>OP
You do realize that the vast majority of students at schools on your D's list come from public schools (because the majority of students in the country attend public school). The split between public/ private schools is around 60 -65% public/ 35-40% private. Should 60-65% of the admitted student population go other places, the private university that accepts them, doesn't seem to think so. And even only those who can truly afford to pay, should be accepted be careful for what you ask for, because your child could be bumped for someone who has more $$/status and how would that make you feel (because back in the day, that is how college admissions at the most elite schools was decided- Whose your Daddy and how much $$ does your family have)</p>

<p>BTW, money & private education does not automatically mean that a person has tact, grace or good manners. Based on the attitude that you are portraying in your postings, I hope that in your D's situation that the chip falls very far from the tree or she could end up being miserable and deemed
socially awkard at whatever school she attends.</p>

<p>Remember that to those to whom much is given, much is required and even if you have a lot schools are looking to build a class of students who </p>

<p>**can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, ' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
*
*</p>

<p>I waited until today to respond to the OP because I felt that my initial reaction to his response to my earlier posts would be at best emotional, and at worst, pulled by the Mods! So, to some extent I have let my fellow posters respond to some of the more inflammatory comments, but there was one more comment I felt I needed to make regarding this, "if you were so happy then why did you attend private college and let your children attend Chicago and WUSTL." It was precisely because I was so happy with our public secondary education that I felt my children could make informed, educated and reasoned judgments about what kind of college environment would be most appropriate for them. In fact, each of them applied to and was accepted at several highly regarded OOS (for us) public universities. Those schools offered things that the private universities they ultimately chose did not have. Larger, more diverse student populations, rah rah sports, great college towns and yes, in some cases, broader academic offerings. My D, in particular, was very sad to say no to Wisconsin (her dad's alma mater), but felt that what she liked about Chicago outweighed what she liked about Wisconsin. Each had its strengths and each had its weaknesses. We allowed her to investigate, ponder, ask questions and decide what was, in the end, what she thought was best for her undergraduate experience. We would have happily supported either decision. I hope that you have the same faith in the education that your D has received. I hope that she too will be allowed the opportunity and freedom to investigate, form her own opinions and ultimately decide what meets her (not your) needs. I only fear that your wholesale dismissal of some of this country's great public universities will cut off what may be wonderful options for your very talented D. To her I offer best wishes as she pursues this sometimes stressful process.</p>

<p>OP, I don't know if it's occurred to you that the people here, to their credit, are still trying to help you and your daughter as you continue to insult them. You are entitled to think what you want, but it seems pretty hypocritical and frankly a little offensive to begrudge people for needing and seeking financial aid to attend the most elite institutions while you're asking for and receiving FREE advice for your privileged daughter to attend those same institutions. </p>

<p>Surely, it's not nice, but it's not too wise either.</p>

<p>POIH, Columbia SEAS may be what your D is looking for, a mix of engineering and core curriculum like Contemporary Civilizations. My S wanted that mix. </p>

<p>BTW I believe I read when my S got in there that U Chi is starting a limited engineering program around 2009, maybe molecular engineering.</p>

<p>ClassicRockerDad : I'm not sure how come I offend anyone by my thinking. First its my thinking and I'm entitled to have one. Second I'm against financial aid to top private universities and not to public universities. Third I always appreciate good advice. </p>

<p>My problem with FA to top private is that it is not fair to those parents who are good citizen, good parent and good human to begin with. These parents try to do all they can to provide good education to their children but get punished in the end by colleges slapping them with hefty tuition bills that are without tax breaks too.</p>

<p>Let me explain to me who actually abuse system. People who themselves send their children to top public school and force poor people to send their children to under performing schools. Have you seen the disparity in home prices between the good and bad public school neighborhood? </p>

<p>I on the other hand try to send my D to a private school staying in a good public school even though paying taxes for the good school. The houses in good school district appreciate while those in bad districts go under. That means the poorer become poorer and richer become richer. Now this rich people start under the pretext of helping those underperforming poorer students play the scam of FA.</p>

<p>You know out of the 65% public school students at top school 95% belongs to the top performing public high school.</p>

<p>So who is the bad person here? Those who send their children to private schools lowering the burden on the tax payer or those who suck in all the good things out of good public school making the poor school district poorer and the scam the system using the FA.</p>

<p>I'm not two faced. What I preach I practice but I won't say this for all the parent who are sending their children to high performing public high schools and talk about equaliity.</p>

<p>sybbie719 : Have you looked into the 65% public high school students at top schools? 90% - 95% comes from the top performing high schools so their is not much difference between the parent income of those children to that of private prep.</p>

<p>^^So? Your point about public schools was not related to income but to ethics.<br>
FWIW, colleges do not admit families. They admit students. 18-year olds are not responsible for the choices, or the luck (or lack thereof) of their parents.</p>

<p>"You know out of the 65% public school students at top school 95% belongs to the top performing public high school."</p>

<p>You made that up.</p>

<p>
[quote]
My problem with FA to top private is that it is not fair to those parents who are good citizen, good parent and good human to begin with. These parents try to do all they can to provide good education to their children but get punished in the end by colleges slapping them with hefty tuition bills that are without tax breaks too.

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The parents who are paying full tuition at top universities are not subsidizing anyone else's children. In fact, they are still paying less than what their children's education costs. So you can relax - whatever fin aid others are getting is not at your expense...</p>

<p>
[quote]
The houses in good school district appreciate while those in bad districts go under. That means the poorer become poorer and richer become richer. Now this rich people start under the pretext of helping those underperforming poorer students play the scam of FA.

[/quote]

I am not sure I can follow your logic here. Is there any?</p>

<p>Interestingly, the town whose houses have appreciated the most (percentage wise) in our county are in the town that has famously bad schools. At least according to its tax assessor who I had dinner with a few weeks ago. I was quite surprised.</p>

<p>I really believe one of the main reasons good schools are in wealthier neighborhoods, is that there are more intact families, and of course in most places they also pay higher taxes. It's your choice to send your child to a private school even though the public schools are good. I know many people who choose to live in some of our less desirable towns (which still have good neighborhoods), just because taxes are low and they know they'll send their kids to private schools anyway.</p>

<p>Getting on my high horse...... You offend me because....</p>

<p>I grew up urban poor, worked very hard, probably got into MIT ahead of some of my higher achieving high school peers probably because I was a first generation college student raised by a single parent in a troubled household. I maintained my grades while holding down jobs and started a rock band with second hand instruments that I bought with money I earned myself. I didn't do summer programs, have tutors or get other privileges that your daughter has. My summer program was hanging out on the street corners with my friends of all kinds. I was fortunate to be able to pass the test to attend one of the best public high schools in the nation and MIT admitted me and gave me a full ride because my household had negative income for my last two years of high school. We eventually lost the only house I ever knew. When I got to MIT I struggled at first, but I was hungry and grateful and I eventually figured out how to excel. I eventually got my PhD there, full ride the whole way. Should MIT not have invested in me? I have to disagree with you pal, I was worth it!</p>

<p>I continue to contribute to society and repay my debt. My children get all of the advantages that I didn't get, except perhaps they feel that more is expected of them by their schools and peers. I don't think I felt quite the same pressure that they have. The differential amount of taxes and donations that I have paid because I was able to get my first rate education means that it was a good investment for MIT and for the nation too. I don't foresee my kids needing any aid, and don't expect to be applying for any. My children go to public school and supplement that with all kinds of activities and programs. They have been raised to appreciate how lucky they are and that with their privilege comes social responsibility. My kids are the kind who do all kinds of community service because that's who they are and they usually neglect to get the forms filled out to get the credit. I'm proud of their values (though I do wish they'd get those forms filled out). </p>

<p>The top universities in the nation look at what you have achieved given your circumstances and build a class. My high achieving children (and yours) may not get the opportunities that I've gotten because some poorer, lesser achieving kid got in and they didn't. Maybe that other kid needs it more, is hungrier, and maybe is more deserving. I have no doubt that our children will get a great education anyway because of the advantages that we gave them, and I applaud the universities for maintaining their core mission and making sure those that they admit can afford to attend, even if it costs me more. </p>

<p>I hope you can understand why I find your stance offensive. You don't get to buy your American Dream by resenting the way hard working, worthy, though less fortunate kids, get theirs. Your D can't earn her place in society by taking it away from others just because you have the means to provide her advantages. Providing financial aid to those in need is central to the non-profit mission of the private tax-exempt universities. I'm glad that you don't really have a say in the matter. </p>

<p>Whew, getting off the horse now!</p>

<p>ClassicRockerDad : Just because you were born to a troubled household doesn't mean that my D is doing any less hard work than you had done in your childhood. There are many other well deserving children who must have been doing the same but you got the benefit of being the first generation.
My D's summers have been spent working for underprivileged children and not hanging out with friends at the corner though she would love to do that i.e. Relax and have fun but will be spending more than 8 hours for 8 weeks this summer doing research at a top university but will still be passed over by a first generation when it will come to admissions.
So who is privileged here? I must be missing the point somewhere. My D works her butt off and in the end what she has to listen to that she is privileged.</p>

<p>I hate the notion that all children who have access to good education are lazy and want to get into Ivies for their parent welll being. There are lots of well deserving well off hard working children who don't get into top colleges because of some selective criteria which might not be that fair.</p>

<p>I haven't commented in this thread at all, but I mean.. if your D would have liked hanging out with her friends better, perhaps she should have done that, rather than pad her applications. I only do things I am completely and totally passionate about. </p>

<p>In the end, I think we all need to realize that college isn't simply about the individual - it is about the country getting a better education. It is about our entire generation getting more opportunities and providing a better future for generations to come. So what, your daughter isn't going to go to Brand Name U because she's not a first-generation college student. She will flourish elsewhere.</p>

<p>mathmom : I must have got wrong lessons in economics otherwise I might not have missed the point that the house prices rises fastest in poor school district while fall the fastest in bad good school district.</p>

<p>I would love to know where you got your economics knowledge as that would benefit me too.</p>

<p>Thread subject drift warning: </p>

<p>The</a> Next Slum? </p>

<p>(A new article about where house prices are likely to decline.)</p>

<p>Georgeanne: I don't think I've any doubt about that but the point was you don't provide someone advantage at the expense of others.</p>

<p>If my D can do it from other colleges than any other hardworking child too then why give one advantage over the other.</p>