<p>What's the deal with all the shootings this weekend? How many of these were close to campus. I have made myself believe that crime isn't any bigger a problem than at other schools (Penn comes to mind), but this makes me a bit nervous.</p>
<p>My son plans on applying in the fall. He is intellectual with subleties of nerdness and has good grades, SAT, EC's, etc. and should be competitive, but the shootings are a bit worrisome. </p>
<p>Any comments?</p>
<p>I visited a few days prior to the violent weekend. The neighborhood north of the campus is very residential and seems safe. But there are lot's of rough areas to the south and west. </p>
<p>A few of the recent shootings, according to google maps, occurred within walking distance of the campus. The university itself, however, has a heavy police presence and I didn't feel unsafe walking around 10 or 11 pm on the very well-lit and well-trafficked campus.</p>
<p>It would be difficult to say that Chicago is more or less safe than Penn or Columbia or other urban schools. You can search the school's threads for crime as it is an oft-discussed topic.</p>
<p>I actually hadn't heard of any shootings until I saw this post, at which point I googled "shootings Chicago April 19" and got a few news stories.</p>
<p>A few thoughts:
1) Crime goes up when temperature goes up. There seems to be a lot of violent crime during the summer, when people are a) outside, b) hot, and c) bored. </p>
<p>2) The violent activity that tends to happen closest to campus is almost all gang-related, and something that U of C students, while being aware of, don't really need to worry too much about. And when I say "close" to campus, I don't mean in a neighborhood where many U of C students live, I mean somewhere that is walking distance, but not where students would typically walk.</p>
<p>3) The police force is strong here, though it's a pretty good sign that there are bored and in my time here (including my late night wanderings) I haven't seen anything that I would count as "sketchy." So I think the general rule of being aware still follows, but I don't think that's a reason to limit yourself extremely.</p>
<p>I just visited U Chicago last weekend, that's also one of my concern.</p>
<p>You can avoid the gang areas quite easily. Just never venture south of the academic affiliated buildings along the midway or off into random neighborhoods to the west beyond the medical complex. Truly, going just two or three blocks on the south side can literally be the difference between ivy laden residential buildings and some of the poorest zip codes in the US. This being said, most students really do not have much of a problem, but there are unfortunately some that engage in really stupid behaviors that put them at risk. Things like:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Making an after dark run to some kitch eatery in the deep south side after hearing about its authentic soul food. While there are many sub-sections of the city worth exploring (Chinatown, Lincoln Park), some really are off limits. </p></li>
<li><p>Utilizing the green line for whatever reason as it has a terminus and several stops in the heart of the ghetto. </p></li>
</ul>
<p>*Volunteering with organizations in these areas. You almost certainly can do the same type of work near the university without the added risk. </p>
<ul>
<li><p>Riding the various busses that traverse areas south of the midway to go to places like Wal*Mart and Target, only to save a few dollars each week over the local places on things like office supplies and non-perishable food. If you are hell-bent on big box shopping, it really is worth renting from Enterprise in Hyde Park once a month, splitting the bill amongst a group, and doing two or three runs to stock apartments. </p></li>
<li><p>Renting or visiting friends who rent far south of the university or in the wasteland zone between UChicago and downtown (which you can see from the 6). The rent on two bedroom is $400 a month for a reason! Just because PhD students live in these places by financial necessity does not mean its a good idea generally. </p></li>
<li><p>Getting to know vagrants, troubled youth and the like, or generally engaging even if just for a few minutes as they ask you for money. A simple Im sorry coupled to a hand wave usually gets them to move on. </p></li>
</ul>
<p>The only time I think the university area proper gets unsafe is during the summer. I was there twice, once as a student and once as a researcher, and found the area to be both dead socially but also kind of scary to say the least. The route I walked home, normally secure and well populated until 10 PM or so, suddenly became dangerous to the point that I ended up having to plan to back prior to sunset or stay in my office until sunrise.</p>
<p>Drudge Report picked up on this...</p>
<p>cbs2chicago.com</a> - Bloody Weekend: 32 Shot, 2 Stabbed, 6 Dead</p>
<p>whoooaaaaa</p>
<p>Yeah, I agree with you there Sheed.</p>
<p>Chicago is an incredibly compartmentalized city. One result of that is that Hyde Park and the University of Chicago are a completely different world than the neighborhoods to the south and west, and have almost no interaction with them. While some of the areas where the recent violence took place are withing walking distance of the University, students never go to these areas, mostly because there is no reason to do so. Unfortunately the neighborhoods are extremely poor and have little in the way of economic activity that offers anything to Chicago students. A "positive" side effect of the extremely stark divisions between neighborhoods is that the rather high level of violent crime in the neighborhoods to the south and west of UChicago doesn't really impact campus, especially during the academic year. The really serious violence on the south side is almost always targeted (gangs, drugs, previously grievances, etc.), and since it's not actually on campus or in the areas students live, it's really not a threat to students. The extreme divisions are sad, but it is pretty clear that the difference between 65th Street and 60th Street is enormous.</p>
<p>I would say that uchicagoalum is pretty accurate about things that would put you at risk for being involved in some type of crime, though I would say that it's not necessary to categorically avoid the Green Line. I probably wouldn't use it by myself after dark, but in groups or during the day, I use it pretty often to get downtown (I seldom use it to return, though, since the bus stop to get back to campus from the Green Line is a bit sketchy).</p>
<p>I would agree that going south at night, is objectively a bad idea. There's actually a decent chance the police will stop you and ask you what you're doing, under the assumption that you're either lost or trying to buy drugs.</p>
<p>There's now a Target on Roosevelt Rd, which opened about three years ago. You can get there safely via the Red or Green lines, and it's just as quick to reach as any locations you might find south.</p>
<p>Also, with the new dorm opening at 61st and Ellis, along with the new Arts Center south of the Midway, I would guess that within a few years the area immediately south of the Midway will start to be become even safer.</p>
<p>So in short, you've got to be aware of your surroundings and you should know where you are going and how to get there, but I don't feel particularly unsafe in Hyde Park.</p>
<p>I lived north and rode the Green line (though known by a different name) almost daily for 10 plus years without incident. It is a city, and with any city one must be careful. Been to New Haven recently?</p>
<p>Whoa! I looked at that article. As far as I could tell, nothing happened within two or three miles of anywhere students live or play. Most of it was much farther away than that. There are plenty of shootings within that kind of distance from my house, and I live in quite the ritzy neighborhood.</p>
<p>Chicago (the city) clearly had a bad couple of days. But none of it had anything to do with Hyde Park or the university area.</p>
<p>Uchicagoalum's rules are a little hysterical. You don't need to avoid the green line or volunteer work. The University of Chicago IS in a big city. If it is going to make you lose sleep that there are poor people in nearby neighborhoods, and that many of them are not of Anglo-Saxon descent, then you should think about going someplace cuter and more suburban for college.</p>
<p>Much thanks for the comments. Poor, non-white people are not an issue for us. It's the people (of any demographic) killing each other that is of concern. From the comments, it sounds like students are fairly safe if they use common sense. My son understands city life to some extent; we live in Houston, but it is more spread out here. We will be visiting the first week of June-will the campus be dead by then? (pun intended)</p>
<p>We'll still be in session in June, so no :-P</p>
<p>I am not saying to avoid volunteer work. Rather, there is a huge difference between tutoring low income students somewhere in Hyde Park proper vs. a school on 72nd street (where, when you get out past dark seven months out of the year, you have to wait around on the corner for an oftentimes unreliable CTA bus that rolls through several areas where altercations on public transit are not out of the ordinary). Likewise, you don’t need to go far to find a food kitchen or a battered women's shelter to work with. Exposing yourself to added risk just does not make sense. </p>
<p>As for the green line, unless you pick it up on 55th and go directly north, it is a bad idea in my book. Just look at the crime statistics. Likewise for the bus routes that run horizontally across the city south of the midway. </p>
<p>Finally, mock me if you will, but I have lived in urban areas with crime rates commiserate to Chicago for years now, never owned a car, and not once have been subject to any harm or petty theft. It all politically correct fun and games until you get punched randomly by a drunk, get your purse stolen, or worse. And sorry, I am not crying for the student who gets his tires slashed and his hubcaps stolen after a 3 AM jaunt to oh so authentic JJ’s Fish Chicken. Yes, I heard they had good “fish-chicken.” No, it is still a dumb idea.</p>
<p>The subtle and not so subtle racist tone of some of these posts are perhaps more revealing of U of Chicago Alumni than the realities that exists anywhere south (insert black people live here) or west (insert mexican people live here) of campus. It is also interesting how humanizing people has been reduced to "politically correct fun and games." That being said, do you think that the posh environment of the U of Chicago would be subject to extreme violence? U of Southern California is in South Central Los Angeles, but rich Orange County white folks have been sending their kids there for generations. As soon as one of them gets looked at the wrong way, the LAPD and campus police are on it yesterday. Given, the elitist institution that Chicago is I don't think there is any reason to be alarmed.</p>
<p>
[quote]
or in the wasteland zone between UChicago and downtown (which you can see from the 6). The rent on two bedroom is $400 a month for a reason! Just because PhD students live in these places by financial necessity does not mean it’s a good idea generally.
[/quote]
To use the common word in this thread, WHOA. </p>
<p>UCA, have you seen this so called wasteland in recent years? It is gentrifying rapidly. Just because it has become a middle class african american neighborhood does not mean it is rough. Believe it or not, some neighborhoods of color can be quite attractive and safe. (sarcasm deliberate)</p>
<p>That said, this newcomer to our section from UCLA has some strange ideas - "posh environment of the U of Chicago", when you can't even buy basic clothing within a three mile radius? </p>
<p>When the opening of a Barnes and Noble bookstore was greeted as a great improvement for the neighborhood?</p>
<p>When the crime rate of neighborhoods to the south and west speak for themselves? Perhaps this poster remembers the day when neighborhoods like South Shore were in fact up and coming. That was, unfortunately, before many of the poor folks living in the projects were forced out by demolition and settled there or further south.</p>
<p>I think the racial remarks are pointless, and total in contrast with the spirit of the posts. There are plenty of other cities dominated by poor whites where much of the same prudence regarding individual safety would apply. In Chicago alone, the newer Eastern European immigrant enclaves are fairly unsafe. After all, a guy who robs you at gun point is still a guy who robs you at gunpoint irrespective of his skin tone. </p>
<p>Furthermore, you would not touch UChicago with a ten foot pole if you had a problem interacting with a large number of African Americans on a day to day basis. There are plenty of elite colleges in predominantly White / Asian areas to easily substitute. This is not to say that the university entirely lacks subtle, even outspoken racists, but we are talking about one percent of the student body at best. Most people who have serious issues with minorities I would wager avoid applying altogether. </p>
<p>The situation does become absurdly politically correct though when you have individuals who go out of their way to flaunt common knowledge about the areas crime. Trying to earn partisan merit badges by unconstructively passing free time in zones where the majority of residents themselves aspire to earn enough money to move out does not make you Barack Obamas protégé. </p>
<p>Finally, as for the area between the UChicago and downtown, the nicer neighborhoods do not afford the kind of savings these cost cutter students are looking for. Its the little spots in between that have been totally lost to meaningful development that are sought out. In the more immediate vicinity of the school, there are plenty of people who cut their rent by half by moving to the 63rd-67th street areas and then walk north to campus.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The subtle and not so subtle racist tone
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I know this wasn't the main point of your post, but it really irritates me when people jump on the "racist" point. Generally, most people don't feel at ease with being in or near any poor, run-down area with a high rate of crime. Students don't really fear the areas south of the Midway because of BLACK PEOPLE, they fear it because people shoot each other down there. </p>
<p>I myself am enlightened enough to see completely past race; I fear all poor people equally.</p>
<p>I have to admit, as the father of a soon to be UofC student, I saw these articles this weekend and it concerned me.</p>
<p>Typical "some of my best friends are black" response. And really Jack you see "past race" ? So if you get held up at gunpoint by someone are you going to tell the cops "i see past race so I can't tell you what color he was." Right buddy....The only people who see past race are people who ignore reality. As for fearing poor people, I fear Dick Cheney, IMF bankers and Real estate lenders a hell of a lot more than any poor person.</p>
<p>One more thing, my point about U of Chicago and comparing it to USC was not that it was in Beverly Hills or the Hamptons, so I stand corrected newmassdad, but that when something happens to someone on campus the cops are on it quick, when it is just a bunch of blacks or mexicans (or for those who see "past race" poor people) getting shot, no one cares. </p>
<p>All this aside, U of Chicago is a great institution with many opportunities but if you want Westwood or Evanston, and are not acclimated to realities of urban life than you have a couple of options 1) keep hiding out in the burbs or 2) get your head of out the sand (or as much out of the sand as a college bubble can provide) Of course all financial aid being equal (if money is an issue). Because I am all about the best offer first and foremost.</p>