Visit Report: University of the Pacific

Parent Cafe
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<p>D#2 is a BWRK interested in the Biological Sciences. For college she wants a mid-sized university someplace away from her home state. DW and I spent five years in the Bay Area and asked that she consider attending school in California, if not for UG then perhaps for Graduate School. D#2 obliged us by applying to the University of San Diego (reviewed separately) and the University of the Pacific.</p>

<p>UoP was the better match on paper. "Science is the driving force at Pacific" quotes Princeton Review. Forty percent of the freshman class was in the top tenth of their HS graduating class. Freshman 75th percentile SAT scores (verbal+math) average 1290. Math scores are 50 points higher than verbal, suggesting a high proportion of techies (a good thing for us). UoP was much larger and the sports programs were superior. The school was in northern California, a plus for our family, and the other schools UoP applicants considered were impressive: Stanford, UCB, UCSD, the Claremont colleges, Southern Cal, Pepperdine and Occidental. I was really looking forward to the visit.</p>

<p>We arrived on a Tuesday at 1:30 PM and went looking for the Admissions building. The first student we asked said he didn’t know where it was. He didn’t offer any advice as to how we might find it either. Fortunately it was only forty yards further ahead. We asked if we could fill out a visitor card. The person at the desk was reluctant to provide us one. We asked for a map, which we received, and directions to the Biology department. We left the Admissions Office following the directions (marked on the map) only to find that the wrong building had been marked. The building we needed was in fact, at the opposite side of campus. It was an inauspicious beginning.</p>

<p>UoP is situated on 175 acres in northern Stockton, California. It feels much larger in person. The campus straddles the Calaveras River, the two parts connected by a conveniently located bridge/walkway. The surrounding area is residential. Both the campus and surrounding area are very pleasant, and I would also describe the area as appearing safe. The buildings are of masonry construction with most being brick. It appears that construction of new buildings is constant. A new Student Union is currently under construction, and a new Biology building is scheduled to begin construction later this year. A number of buildings have been recently completed. Playing fields are plentiful, each resplendent in beautiful green grass. There is a very appealing stadium for the Division 1A football team. There are extensive parking lots as well, all filled to near capacity the day we were there. The occasional BMW/Porsche/Mercedes was far outnumbered by cars typical of a state flagship school.</p>

<p>As is typical of our college visits we walked around the campus and asked questions. This approach was not a success at UoP. Which are the freshman dorms? “We don’t have freshman dorms.” Well where are freshman women housed? “They’re spread out across all the dorms I guess.” Why is the Pharmacy building and Biological Sciences buildings at opposite ends of the campus? "I don’t know." Does the Outing Club offer any horseback riding? "That’s not done around here." (Two questions asked of a Biology Department staff member) Who would we see about the Biochemistry program? "Biochemistry is chemistry. This is Biology. We don’t have anything to do with biochemistry.” Where might I get an artist’s rendering of the new Biology Building that’s being built? "I have no idea." Can you tell me anything about the unusual stainless steel straps around the clock tower (asked of an Engineering College staff member)? "I never noticed them."</p>

<p>It appears that UoP attracts a certain type of student and serves them with a complementary type of staff. I presume everyone’s happy at UoP, though no one was forward enough to confirm that during our visit. Perhaps it was "just one of those days" at UoP but D#2 and I were totally put off by the experience. Of three dozen college visits accompanying D#1 and D#2, this was the only one we heard no laughter, saw no students congregating outside in the sunshine, and never heard “but I know who can answer that question” even once. UoP is not a bad place, but a visit is advisable to make sure the prospective student is a match for the student body and the school.</p>

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<p>Did your post get cut off??</p>

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<p>Newhope- My son has also been admitted to UOP but he has not visited yet. It is disapointing to hear about your visit. The phone calls my son has gotten from students have all been positive.
We are from Ca and I have my misgivings about Stockton. My son needs to schedule a visit.</p>

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<p>Mom60, I would love to hear after your visit. My DD has this school on her list. I wonder, OP, did you schedule a visit or go for a specific scheduled tour or was it more of a drop in? I am not asking because I have a problem with either method, mostly just curious. When DS was applying we did only scheduled visits, tours, etc. I wonder if we would have felt differently about some of the schools if we just dropped in.<br>
Maybe there is a case to be made that when you do the scheduled stuff they only show what they want to and you only meet the kids who love the school? On the other hand, when you do the scheduled stuff, they are expecting you and I never had any schools where I couldn't get information.<br>
(Not to hijack the thread...just curious).</p>

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<p>I appreciate your taking the time to write up your impressions. It is always interesting how certain schools "click" or don't with individual students during a campus visit. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I do think that students should not try to force a school to "feel right" if it just doesn't. With over 2,600 four-year colleges to choose from, if one doesn't feel right, move on to the next. </p>

<p>By the same token, no one should dismiss a school just because someone else (especially a stranger) felt it wasn't right for them. The fact is you can take any school in the country and find someone who visited who didn't like it, but obviously there are also plenty of kids at every school who end up feeling it's the right one for them. It's all about individual choice and fit.</p>

<p>But I have to admit I had a bit of chuckle that you mentioned the "BMW/Porsche/Mercedes" in the student parking lot at UOP but failed to mention the high numbers of similar cars you can find in the USD student parking lots. In fact, I'd venture to guess that USD has UOP beat on that particular measure. :)</p>

<p>Which only goes to reinforce how multiple visits at different times and under different conditions for any college that ends up under serious consideration are a good idea. Surface impressions like "friendly and helpful people" can often have a halo effect that leads us to miss or downplay the negatives that exist at every school, just as a so-so visit can cloud our ability to see the positives that also exist at every school. But, as I said, sometimes a school just doesn't click with a student and no amount of revisits will change that, and it's fine to move on to the next one.</p>

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<p>carolyn - Oh heavens yes! At USD we parked behind a new Porsche Carrera (in red!). Nice. Whoever parked it there left it out in the rain, which I thought odd since s/he could have parked in the garage a few yards away. "Never seen snow or rain" is a badge of honor for Porsche owners here in the northeast.</p>

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<p>Yep, that's USD for you. I sometimes feel like a poor hill-billy when I show up on campus in my 1999 Volvo station wagon. As for the rain, it rains so infrequently here in San Diego that honestly no one thinks of pulling their cars into the garage. Some here, however, worry just a tad about sun damage to our cars.</p>

<p>Thanks for sharing your and your daughter's impressions of these two schools, and it sounds like your daughter is off to a good start with her college search. Do let me know if USD ends up on her final list and you'd like to talk to a current parent or two.</p>

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<p>ebeeeee - Our family practice is to schedule only one college visit with each child. After that we "drop in." Parents and student split up and then later compare notes. This works for us because parents are much more interested in lab facilities, faculty accessibility, research and internship programs, financial aid, etc. </p>

<p>The principal reason we don't attend planned tours is that the information tends to be repetitive from college to college. "Yes we offer both EA and ED." "On your right is the administration building ...." We've tried doing both the formal tour and a separate ad hoc one, but DD tends to get real crabby before we finish. So we've settled on the latter approach. Honestly, I think it's a matter of personal preference.</p>

<p>RE: Visitor cards. Actually this was the second time we had difficulty getting a visitor card. Georgetown INSISTED that visitor cards would ONLY be collected from prospective students scheduled for tours. Considering how many prospects tour that university I was willing to grant them the benefit of the doubt!</p>

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<p>Well, I betcha on the "planned" college tour they might have been able to tell you why there were straps on the tower, and the tour guide would have been able to give you directions to the biology building. :)</p>

<p>Honestly, if anyone asked my daughter for directions on her campus to anywhere but the art building, the campus dining hall, and her dorm she'd probably reply "I don't know." I am not even sure she could give you directions to the library. ;)</p>

<p>And, by the same token, if someone just "dropped in" at the scientific research facility where my husband works and started asking for architectural renderings, or a tour of the labs, they'd probably get pretty much the type of answers you got. In fact, some of the people working there might be a bit peeved at having their day interrupted unexpectedly. </p>

<p>Would that mean that my daughter's college is bad, intellectually unchallenging or unfriendly? No. Would that mean that my husband's lab facility is poorly managed and inferior, or that the people working there were all unhelpful and uninformed? No. It just would mean that you didn't stumble across the right people to get the answers you were seeking. </p>

<p>So, you might want to rethink your approach, and include just a bit more structure in your visits. Wander around, for sure, and ask people questions, because that should be part of any campus visit, but if you want to be sure to get real in-depth attention from busy faculty and students, you might also want to schedule at least a few appointments beforehand. And, while the admissions tours and presentations do get a bit repetitive, they also can sometimes give you important information, a chance to ask questions, and another, very important view of how a school views itself and is operated.</p>

<p>It's good to see as many sides as possible when you visit a campus, and there is valuable information to be gained from both the informal and formal experiences.</p>

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<p>
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A number of buildings have been recently completed. Playing fields are plentiful, each resplendent in beautiful green grass. There is a very appealing stadium for the Division 1A football team.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Just as a point of clarification, UoP hasn't fielded a football team since the mid-nineties (1995, I believe). Most of the similar-caliber football programs in California have been cut in the last 20 years: Santa Clara, St. Mary's, Long Beach St., CS-Northridge, etc. I would imagine the stadium is still used for soccer, perhaps intramurals, but otherwise is just a monument now!</p>

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<p>I also want to say a word in regards to your comments about visitor cards.</p>

<p>If you're stopping to fill them out hoping to show "demonstrated interest," there's a reson why some colleges and universities might be reluctant to allow you to do. When colleges think of "demonstrated interest" they're thinking about students who took the time to make FORMAL contact with the school, who made the effort to take the tour, talk with someone in admissions, schedule appointments with faculty, and sit through a presentation to learn about whether the school has ED or EA, etc. </p>

<p>Just "dropping by" for a brief visit of wandering around on your own doesn't show the same level of demonstrated interest, even if you get to fill out the visit card.</p>

<p>Now, there's something to be said for "scoping out" a school before you decide to do all of the above to see if it's worth the extra effort, but if you really want to show demonstrated interest, you'll play the demonstrated interest game to full effect, regardless of how repetitive the tour might be.</p>

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<p>My experience at UoP was very different. I went last week because I was in CA for spring break and everyone was very friendly. The admissions people were very nice and the tour was quite impressive compared to others I've been on. They made everyone fill out a visitor card at the begining of the tour.</p>

<p>Ofcourse the campus was beautiful and so were most of the buildings I saw. The only downside for me was how small it seemed.</p>

<p>The music faculty were all very nice to me and even introduced me to their students so I could talk to them about what they thought of the college. The horn teacher went out of her way to make sure I heard ensembles met students and fetl comfortable. I was impressed. </p>

<p>Overall my experience was great.</p>

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<p>Hard to imagine anyone considering UOP and Cal.....</p>