Ok, so we visited Bates College Friday.
Background on our situation: My son is a senior but has always been homeschooled, so his admissions process is a little different than standard schools. He’s also graduating from high school with an AA degree from the local community college, so he has a lot of credits going in.
So we went to Bates, and of course he loved it. What’s not to love?
Bates is in Maine, and it was cold for April, and it started to snow, but at least my son knows what he’s getting into.
Bates was very organized, very efficient, and obviously used to dealing with parents who are demanding and who have money and high expectations.
When my son showed up for the overnight, he was given a towel, top sheet and bottom sheet, a pillow and pillowcase, a Bates hat, Bates backpack, clear instructions on where to meet his host and an agenda for the next day.
The dining hall was like nothing else I’ve ever seen. Astonishing food. A vegan section, dedicated section for gluten-free food including a toaster and nut butters for GF food, a section where they cook food to order, spicy foods, plain foods, you name it.
When my son and I were talking about getting breakfast, a student walked by and said, “I don’t mean to eavesdrop, but if you want to get breakfast, I’d do it know, because it closes in twenty minutes,” then showed us where to do. Anywhere we went, people smiled at us, asked if we needed help, pointed out where things were, and offered to walk us there. I’ve never been around more friendly people in my whole life.
The campus is beautiful and there’s a feeling of money everywhere. Everything is new, and it runs like a fancy hotel. There weren’t enough seats at one of the lectures, and instead of having parents stand up, tables and chairs magically appeared. There were staff and volunteers everywhere waiting to help. Everything ran on time. The class my son took was great.
It’s very traditional, with traditional academics, except that the school was founded by abolitionists who also allowed women into the school, so since the 1850s it’s had both women and men of color graduating from the university, so there’s a strong component of social justice and equality. They meet full financial need, and they’re committed to taking a lot of students who are low-income or minority.
But the school is also $70K a year and more than half the students don’t even apply for financial aid. So there’s a very “old money” feel about it.
Two things that were mildly off-putting: One tour guy said that he ran a club on campus that was a college version of “Shark Tank,” where he and his buddies pretended to be venture capitalists and gave away up to $20,000 each year for students to start businesses. Some people might see this as a plus. I saw it as something that was clearly clueless as to privilege and wealth, and he came across as a rich, smug prick. The other tour guides, however, were down to earth and “normal,” and my son said his overnight was full of kids who made him feel welcome.
The parent’s luncheon felt like a fundraiser. There were linen tablecloths and napkins, china and silverware, a full lunch with roast beef and cake, floral centerpieces, the whole bit. It felt a bit like they were saying, “We know what kind of lifestyle you expect for your children, and we won’t disappoint you. And have we discussed alumni donations?”
But they’ve been around 150 years. They have a huge endowment. They know what works.
My son loved Hampshire, but liked Bates. He could see himself there, and sees that it will help him be “successful,” while Hampshire will make him “a better person.”
So it led to a lot of interesting discussions.
Still in the thick of trying to figure this out.
And of course we still can’t even figure out if he’s going to take a gap year or not!
With respect to the fundraising feel: get used to it. All colleges do it. Bates is no worse than anyone else. And while their endowment seems huge, it’s second lowest among the 11 NESCAC schools.
The shark tank thing seems more didactic than showy. Entrepreneurship is very big with this generation, particularly in tech.
Are you looking for a school that is “used to dealing with parents who are demanding and who have money and high expectations” and “the lifestyle you expect for your children” with a campus that has a “feeling of money everywhere”? Your post came off pretentious with the exception of how friendly Bates was. If my child was considering Bates (she did and was WL) I’d be doing another visit to make sure that your view was a sham, not the reality, because I would avoid any school that was clearly highlighting their “eliticism”.
I agree with @Kenneth1960 . The ‘fundraising feel’ is pretty standard regardless of the institution, though I didn’t come away from our Bates visit with that impression at all. My older son is at College of the Holy Cross and we get sent many invites to donate to the school’s various organizations (parent’s fund is a big one). You can just toss the mail in the recycle bin if you’re not into that.
Personally, I liked the extra little touches at the Bates parent’s luncheon. At the end of the day, it’s us parents who are paying the tuition and having Bates do a little something extra to impress me or make me feel important isn’t a bad thing. Would the alternative have been better? Doing nothing seemingly above and beyond? Putting you in the dining hall or telling you lunch was on your own? They are still trying to sell their school to the undecided students/families and I think Bates did a wonderful (and tasteful) job.
@Meaganmm I think your perception of the shark tank club is all wrong. Like @jackson345, I have a kid at College of the Holy Cross and they also have shark tank competition. One of the first prize winners this year is a first gen kid who started a business employing refugees. The other started an on-line platform to address issues of black masculinity in society. I wouldn’t call that ‘clueless to privilege and wealth’ and would bet that Bates has similar stories regarding their competition.
Your son has 2 great choices. Congrats and good luck to him
If OP thinks everything is shiny and new, they missed a lot. It’s important to see more than just superficial.
A very thorough report. Interesting choice of words. I’m a Bates parent, and though we are full pay, we are certainly not “old money.” In all honesty, the nice lunch you described is going to be pretty standard at most private colleges. They need to raise money, and if giving a nice lunch impresses enough people who donate, it was worth it to them. For the record, Bates endowment is actually small compared to other NESCAC schools, whihc have funds in the billions. Bates was founded to be a college for the working class and disadvantaged people, such as women and African Americans. It did not have the monied alumni that other NESCAC schools had, therefore, it never had the donations. In its early days, Bates grads were not earning as much as their wealthier contemporaries at Bowdoin, etc… Hampshire has a smaller endowment, but it’s been around for a lot less time.
I don’t have a problem with the shark tank club. Investing money is a job. The club has real world applications. No different than any other club. Not all clubs are going to appeal to everyone. My daughter joined the knitting club. Is that more worthy than a shark tank club? Probably not practical, but who cares as long as the kids enjoy doing it.
There’s a lot on campus that isn’t new. Bates really should upgrade its athletic facilities. The library is hideous. Older dorms are slowly being renovated, but it doesn’t happen overnight. If you are interested in seeing an immaculate campus, check out nearby Bowdoin. I love Bates campus, but I don’t think it’s all pristine and new. I like it that way though.
Regarding rich kids, you will find them at Hampshire too. All privates will have their share of rich kids. As far as the Maine NESCACs, Bates is generally regarded as having the most arty and down to earth students. My kid does know a girl who owns horses, but all of her friends are just ordinary kids from a mix of backgrounds. Best of luck to your son. He has excellent choices.
Mine loved the diversity, in all ways, including SES. They made close friendships across all types. Yes, some were uber wralthy- but that’s life. Any differences disappeared.
I see no problem with tablecloths or extra chairs appearing. They’re niceties. I do wonder if OP’s perspective is affected by some aspects of homeschooling, when there’s less interaction with others who may be very rich or very poor. Even many public hs families worry about rich kids on college campuses. But these things work out.
I think the “old money” thing is more of a factor because we’re coming from the west coast and the other options he’s explored are University of Washington (high tech, fast-paced, 30,000 students, and freshman classes have 700 students in them,) and Western Washington University (public school but with a liberal arts feel to it.)
It’s a very different world from here to there. If we were comparing all small New England colleges, I’m sure many of them have the same feeling.
The shark tank thing might be great for kids who are into business or finance. My son was put off by it, but it obviously appeals to some kids or it wouldn’t exist.
And the “shiny and new” thing is in comparison to Bard, which we visited earlier in the week. Everything there needed paint and was literally peeling and in need of repair.
There is a definite upside to a school having money for good staff, support for teachers, and the feeling that programs and such have the funding to keep going and improving. Public universities don’t have that feeling.
Also wanted to mention your take on traditional academics. I don’t know if Bates’ core requirements are totally traditional. My D says there are hardly any requirements and they are so broad that she feels that she can choose any class she likes, for the most part. I know for her requirement in quantitative, she took a class in archaeology. I think it had a lab, which was probably the quantatative part. I don’t think she’s had a dud class so far.
Many kids really love Short Term. It offers all kinds of unusual classes. Students still have to work hard, but Short Term is great because everyone is relaxed, and the weather is nice. I think my D would like to do a Short Term class all four years, but she will have to settle for three. The degree requires two. My D chose something about Oscar Wilde and the Victorians or something like that last year. I know that there was a class called Roller Coaster Physcis, and they went to theme parks. Her class this year sounds pretty boring, tbh, but she’s taking it so she can qualify for a certain job in campus next year. Students can also go abroad for Short Term. Anyway, there is a huge variety.
The classes and the short term are a big draw. My son is really having a hard time deciding between Bates and Hampshire. They are very different schools. I like that Bates assigns each student to an advisor or a go-to person that they have the whole time they’re there to make sure no one falls through the cracks. That can make the difference for a lot of kids.
My son took 3 short terms (one was “math camp,” an important, intense, and challenging course for math majors) and during one of them (in addition to the academic class) was able to complete a Wilderness First Aid class offered on campus, which was a requirement for his job at a residential summer camp for boys. The year he didn’t do short term (which he loved), he was able to take a Wilderness First Responder class (also required for his job) and spend a little more time earning money in the summer. Many do internships. It’s a beautiful time on campus.
@Meaganmm , you should both look at the colleges’ Linked in profiles. They give a great picture of where students ended up post-grad. It’s all about finding a career at some point, so he should consider that when deciding.
Linked In is a great idea. It’s hard to know where to do the research, and that’s a good place to start.
We were not full pay and my S had friends from all SES, but the kids are pretty much all the same regardless. And there just aren’t a lot of places in L/A for those who have a lot of $ to flaunt it.
The Shark Tank club is just one of a gazillion other clubs there. My S was in the DJ club, had a radio program at the college station, on Student Government (eventually elected in his jr. year to the Exec Council,) and on the sailing team - all while having a job at the Career Center.
I didn’t go to accepted student day with my S (my H did) so I know nothing about how the parents were treated but on graduation weekend everything was done first class!
Also, every college now will be calling and mailing requests to donate for 4 years. We always said we would d onate once we were done paying tuition, and we have. S started donating his first year after graduating.
That’s good to know. My son is still making up his mind — he really liked Bates and felt comfortable there.
I agree with @emilybee that there aren’t a lot of places to spend money in L/A. There is a good selection of restaurants and students do like to go out to eat on occasion. I can only think of one “expensive” restaurant. My D went to dinner the other night and ordered a $12 bowl of noodles. There is a basic shopping plaza near the college with a Walmart and some other chain stores. Amherst has a huge variety of shopping and eateries, and the village is very nice. If it’s important to your son to have access to nicer places, then he might want to take that into consideration. Some kids are put off by Lewiston, other kids don’t care. I think most Batesies become very fond of Lewiston after a while. It’s definitely grown on me.
I gotta say. Hampshire is famous for heavy pot-smoking and the lack of grades. It’s got plenty of people who don’t really need or want to work hard in college, because they come from “Old Money”, who are funding their irresponsible lifestyle…Bate’s long liberal tradition permeates its atmosphere and ethos. It’s famous for turning out people who work in the “helping professions”, and is one of the “Colleges that Change Lives”.
Lewiston has lots of opportunities to help others-and easy access to the beautiful Maine Coast, or the woods and the mountains. The Outing Club is very active and runs trips every weekend.
Now, now @OldbatesieDoc . I doubt that Hampshire students are all irresponsible. The no-grades thing is part of Hampshire. I like that they don’t conform. It’s very appealing to the right kid. I tried to get my own son interested in Hampshire, and I also tried to get him interested in Bates (sis attends), but neither is his cup of tea. To each his own. All colleges will have pot-smoking, irresponsible kids.
I don’t think Bates is on the CTCL list unless the list has been changed.