Vocal or Theater Focus?

<p>Gkoukla...wow, what a thrill that must have been for your daughter (and for you too!). Every aspect of it sounds like it was amazing and unforgettable. I'm glad you were able to go there and see (and hear) it too. Being in that venue adds another dimension along the lines of "here's my kid from 'name of small town' and she is performing in Italy!" </p>

<p>These kids on here are all doing some really great things! I hope I see them all perform some day. They sound like they are going places!
Susan</p>

<p>Hi! I hope everything is going well in your preparation for the fall. It's almost here now!</p>

<p>D has no change of heart in her passions for both disciplines. It is full speed ahead for MT, as well as VP. It makes my head swim...I don't know how she does it.</p>

<p>The vocal program was discovered on her own, not through UM. (UM has a great program all their own) She was invited to audition from her "favorable" outcome with The Juilliard School in '04. Right now she has no plans to return next summer, although many students go year after year.</p>

<p>Gkoukla...
That certainly shows your D has the passion for both disciplines, if attending a fabulous program such as that doesn't turn her head in one direction only. It must confirm for you, and she, how much she values both. It will be a lot of work for her, but should make her more marketable in the end.</p>

<p>I do know about the UM program. (It sounds great too!) But I was curious if UM had brought this program to her attention or not. Sounds like it was independent of school. There seem to be any number of wonderful classical opportunities abroad for students. They are lucky to experience this training at their young age. (And what fun that you got to experience it in some small way as well!)</p>

<p>Gkoukla,</p>

<p>I know that your head must still be spinning and the rest of your body and heart swelling with pride. Congratulations to your D. Experiences such as these change lives in so many ways and not all of those ways are visible immediately. They percolate and the student will benefit in ways big and small for many years to come. She's a talented and lucky girl!</p>

<p>Bumping for believersmom.</p>

<p>does anyone know on the boco website where i could find information regarding auditions and what is required?</p>

<p>Chris, I just looked it up for you. Here is the link about the audition requirements for MT at BOCO:
<a href="http://www.bostonconservatory.edu/admissions/audition_requirements_theater.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bostonconservatory.edu/admissions/audition_requirements_theater.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Please note that it appears that this year there is dance included in the audition and this was not the case AT Boston Conservatory last year. That is why it is always wise to not rely on info. here but to go to the source. Further, please note that one of the monologues is "post war" and it gives examples of playwrights of that era. I had not taken as keen notice of that originally until another mom pointed that out last winter and thus, my D had to prepare another monologue for BOCO that was not amongst her other ones for other schools. She had a contemporary comedic, a contemporary serious, a classical piece, and a post war monologue, between all her schools, plus varying lengths of each depending on that school's parameters. It was handy that she added that post war one late in the game (BOCO was her last audition) because the week before at CMU, they asked her for four monologues and she knew four because of this!</p>

<p>Good luck to you...
Susan</p>

<p>I've spent the past few weeks reading the entire Musical Theater site and I must say I've grown somewhat blurry-eyed doing it. My wife has grown accustomed to me coming home, having dinner, and sitting down at the computer to read for several hours; in fact, it's become somewhat of a joke around our house. "Where's Dad?" You guessed it, he's at the computer...</p>

<p>In any event, I've found it fascinating reading and extremely helpful as we continue OUR journey. In fact, it's been one of the most informative, helpful sources of information that I've discovered so far. Dozens of interesting questions and many answers. It's part reference guide, part personal journey, part testimonial. At times, I feel like I'm reading a novel, following the progression of your children from rising seniors to prospective freshmen. </p>

<p>If one of the professors on the site is looking for a good book project, I think you've got it right in front of you: an insider's guide to preparing, auditioning, and getting accepted into a musical theater program, based on the informative and enlightening discussions on this site. I know I'd buy a copy!</p>

<p>As our daughter begins to narrow down her choices, I've got a question that I hope somebody can answer.</p>

<p>Our daughter has spent the past few months looking at college websites (I was on a sabbatical last summer and we had an opportunity to visit a number of schools in the Midwest and East Coast), reading bits and pieces of relevent information from this site (suggested to her by Dad), and narrowing the field down from nearly 100 potential colleges and conservatories that offer BFA or BM degrees in musical theater (Dr. John's Big List as well as our own developing list) to about 16 that she is interested in. </p>

<p>I realize it is entirely a personal decision and dictated by finances and other factors, but is there a ballpark number of schools that a student should apply to in the field of musical theater? When our son applied to college several years ago, it was a pretty easy process. He applied to 6 schools on the West Coast, got into 5, and wound up at the University of Washington (his Dad's alma mater). As we've discovered with our daughter, however, the field of musical theater is a whole different critter.</p>

<p>From my reading of the various discussions on this site, it seems to me that one should apply to a few "highly selective" schools (accepts 10-15 per year), a few "very selective" schools (accepts 15-20 per year), a few "selective" schools (accepts 20-30 per year), and a few safeties (non-audition, BFA or BM programs in musical theater). It's clear that you've got to apply to a "number" of schools (applying to 3 or 4 top tier schools is academic suicide in this field!), but how many is just right? Eight? Ten? Twelve? Sixteen? How many did your children apply to? </p>

<p>Thanks, as always, for your time and help.</p>

<p>MTPapa</p>

<p>MTPapa....
You've read my D's story if you've read this thread...but I know how hard it is to keep everyone straight. So, the thumbnail on what she did was this. We started out with 9 schools on our list of those for which she would audition. There were 5 that were the ones in which she was most interested. She was lucky enough to have an acceptance in hand before Christmas of one of her top 3 schools. So she decided to take the bottom 4 off her list and NOT audition for them. So, while we started with 9, she only auditioned for 5. This saved us a BUNCH of bucks in travel costs. If you can line up some early auditions, you, too, may have the same luck. It really made senior year MUCH more enjoyable for D.</p>

<p>In terms of choosing highly selective, vs very selective etc, D's 9 schools included 3 in each "category" you describe that you list. Her "safeties" were schools that she loved where she auditioned for Vocal Performance as well as MT since her strength is Voice. The hard part was deciding between MT acceptances and Voice acceptances!</p>

<p>GOOD LUCK! I can hardly believe we were where you are just one year ago! It goes so quickly!</p>

<p>Insofar as I'm in my "musical theater" mindset, I thought I would ask another question (I hope it's not considered too stupid or naive) that I've been wondering about as I've perused the various threads over the past few weeks.</p>

<p>I've read on several previous threads that each year, many schools are looking for particular kinds of students. If school A is top heavy on sopranos, for example, they might NOT be looking for any sopranos that year. Maybe school B has strong singers but weak dancers, so they look for strong dancers the next year to beef up their productions. </p>

<p>This approach makes some sense to me. It's the same process that directors use in casting a musical or play, but usually, they let you know in advance what they're looking for: 2 male baritones in the 20s, 1 female alto in her 30s, etc. You know in advance if your "right" for the role and you chose to audition or not. </p>

<p>Similarly, on an earlier thread, Dr. John talked about how they assemble their freshman class at Otterbein College each year. As I recall, he said they look for certain "vocal ranges" and "types" (leading man, comedic belter, etc.) and fill until they have their ensemble. Same approach, same process.</p>

<p>So, my question is this: Do any schools share this type of information with students and/or their parents? It seems to me that this type of information would be EXTREMELY helpful in narrowing your field of prospective colleges down to a manageable number. At the very least, you'd know whether or not they were looking for someone with your vocal range, character "type", etc. and you could chose to apply to that college or not. </p>

<p>Thanks, as always, for your time and help.</p>

<p>MTPapa</p>

<p>MTPapa,</p>

<p>I agree that when deciding on which schools to audition for, one needs to take into account how selective the program is. Most of the posters here at CC would agree that students should have a mix of highly selective and moderately selective programs and a non-audition safety or two.</p>

<p>I am not sure if your description of highly selective, very selective, and selective MT programs is the same as I would use. Be very careful when deciding how selective a program might be. You can't make this evaluation based on how many students the program accepts every year. Rather, you need to look at the percentage of students offered a place in the program. A school that accepts 20 students out of 100 is in a different ballpark than a school that accepts 20 out of 500.</p>

<p>My D and I had 17 schools on her list at the end of her junior year. She narrowed the list to 7 by the beginning of her senior year. Seven to eight auditions felt about right to us. My D actually did 7 auditions - all on site. I pushed for her to apply to an 8th school, but she vetoed it. Had my D done any unified auditions, we might have been able to squeeze in another couple of auditions. For my family, the idea of doing 10, 12, or (shudder!) more auditions on site was untenable. Most of the people we have talked with did around the same number of auditions as my D.</p>

<p>Your 2nd post today regarding the types of students schools are trying to cast was interesting. I think most of us old hands realize that MT programs are casting a pool of students. As Doctorjohn said a few months ago, schools cannot accept a class of all blonde ingenues. Even if the blonde ingenues were THE most talented students to audition. Unfortunately, I know of no schools that share their needs for a particular incoming class with the potential auditioners. I suspect that most years all but the smallest programs need to accept both boys and girls and a variety of types. The competition may be stiffer for some types at some schools, but I doubt that there are many cases where a certain type of performer has a zero chance of admittance. (Hope I'm making sense!)</p>

<p>I did find it interesting that my D and her freshmen classmates at FSU quickly figured out which seniors they were "replacing". Virtually every freshman found someone of the corresponding casting type as him/herself in the senior class. FSU is a very small program, so it's not too surprising that each of my D's freshmen classmates seemed to fill a unique niche.</p>

<p>Welcome MTPapa! You are right that this site can be addicting but surely quite the resource, let alone a great way to connect with others involved in similar processes. </p>

<p>I'm in between both my kids' college drop offs and barely online but will try to reply to your post and will check back in a few days when I get back from the final drop off...</p>

<p>You asked for a ballpark number of schools that one should consider to apply for admission....</p>

<p>This is a tricky question. If you were asking about a college applicant who was not going for a BFA in MT....here is what I would have advised....</p>

<p>An applicant should have a balanced list of reach, match/ballpark, and safety schools. Depending on the level of the schools and selectivity, the total number of applications would vary. For some applicants, six schools might be enough...two reaches, two matches, two safeties. For students applying to the most selective or elite schools in the country (ie., Ivy Leagues, top 20 schools or liberal arts colleges), the odds of admission become a bit of a crapshoot and cannot be counted on even for the most qualified candidates, so for that sort of applicant, they might need MORE colleges on their list because of the odds. For instance, I have a daughter who was that type of applicant and she had 8 schools on her list: four reaches, two matches, and two safeties (not counting was offered a free ride at our state's university which she had not originally intended to apply to). For me, this was about the right amount and she could devote the requisite attention to each application. She is attending one of her reach schools. I would say that MOST candidates need not have more than 10 schools on their list. Even for the most elite schools, I cannot imagine anything over 12. I feel that 8 is about right. If the schools are less competitive, then six might do it. The balance of the list is what is needed. </p>

<p>Now, let's talk MT BFA applicants....ANOTHER situation all together. In my opinion, MOST of the BFA programs are reaches because the admit rates are so low (in most cases in the single digits) that they cannot be counted on even for the most talented or qualified applicants. In this scenario, you almost need MORE schools to increase the odds. But then one must self assess and get professional opinions from those in the field if the student is a reasonable and appropriate candidate for these schools. If so, I'd say about 8 schools should do it. That is how many BFA programs my own child applied to, and was similar in number to all of her theater friends, give or take one or two schools. What was unusual compared to a normal applicant to college, was that the list was NOT balanced and really all schools were difficult odds in terms of selectivity. I believe if the candidate is reasonably qualified for these selective schools, at least one should work out. This held true for my own child, as well as every friend she had who applied to these programs (these other kids were very STRONG candidates). Most had a choice of admittances. But for others, it would be important to add non audition schools and/or some of the least selective (but still selective) BFA programs to the list of very selective ones. </p>

<p>One thing about your interpretation of selectivity.....it really is NOT accurate. You cannot go by the quantity of kids accepted (size of program). In other words, a program with 15 kids in it is not necessarily more selective or harder to get into than one with 50 kids in it. What you MUST look at is the admit rate...the percentage of those who audition, who are accepted (also do NOT look at the YIELD which is how many slots they will fill because MOST programs accept more than the number of slots available because not everyone will accept the offer if they have more than one offer). So, you must look at the total number who applied/auditioned and how many they accepted and figure out the percentage which is considered the ADMIT RATE. For example, Syracuse's director said at the audition day that they would audition 400 kids for the MT BFA program, accept 40 to yield a class of 20. That is a 10% admit rate. Most of the selective programs have admit rates between 3-10%, no matter the total number of slots in the class. So, you need to go by that figure. </p>

<p>With regard to your question of which types are they looking for to fill slots in the class....no, they don't really let you know ahead of time (sorry) but they do try to create a balanced class because as you noted, these kids will be the ones filling their casts too. So, each class will need boys, girls, character actors, ingenues, sopranos, belters, and so forth. Therefore, if the class will have just 15 kids in it, your kid is not necessarily competing for any of these 15 slots. Maybe they will take 3 legit soprano ingenues and your D is one of those and so she is only vying for a couple of the openings. The only thing you may know ahead of time is something like...does this program value dance skills? Are they heavy on acting training? Do they have a reputation for preferring the legit soprano voice? Do they want triple threats? Do they care about academics? But other than knowing about a particular leaning of a program, you really do not know how many of any one type they want. Just know that many factors come into play.</p>

<p>Hope this helps. Back to packing my kid up....
Susan</p>

<p>PS, I agree with Dancersmom that when auditioning to get into college, it is impossible to do TOO many auditions in terms of travel/time. My child did 8 auditions on 8 college campuses which was a lot of travel in a short period of time (roughly two months). I suppose with Unifieds, more can be done but then it goes back to putting the requisite energy into each and every application, essay, and visit and to get to truly know each school enough to figure out where you want to be too.</p>

<p>Our daughter is slowly narrowing her field of colleges and conservatories down to a manageable number and has started to request viewbooks and college applications and begun to look at audition dates this fall and winter.</p>

<p>In general, our daughter has decided to look at schools that are voice-based musical theater programs (OCU, NYU-Steinhardt, etc.) and musical theater programs that have a reputation for being balanced between voice, acting, and dance (Syracuse, Elon, etc.). She's currently aiming for 10-12 schools that she will apply to.</p>

<p>There are still a few schools that are on her long list that we're trying to get a handle on. These include Pennsylvania State University, Otterbein College, Florida State University, and the University of Miami.</p>

<p>Does anyone have any information on these schools? Are they voice-based musical theater programs, acting-based musical theater programs, or balanced musical theater programs? I know both FSU and Miami offer BM and BFA degrees, but can you provide any insights?</p>

<p>Your input and advise, as always, is greatly appreciated.</p>

<p>MT Papa</p>

<p>I'm not sure if you have checked out Baldwin-Wallace yet, but it would be a great program for you daughter if she is looking for a more music based program. I currently have 5 music classes that I'm in and have learned more in 3 weeks here then I learned in HS. The program is a lot more intense then it seems to be, the focus of the conservatory is to turn everyone there into a true musician while supplementing their major too, whether it be Musical Theatre, Music Therapy, Music Edu, and so on... Vicky, the head of the department, has incredible connections within the industry. We actually sent two students out to NY the other day to audition for the role of Tarzan in Tarzan. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.</p>

<p>MTPapa,
I brought up the thread about Florida State so you could read it. I consider FSU to be one of the schools that has a very good balance of acting, music, and dance classes. I would say the same about Otterbein and Penn State. Take a look at the curricula for the schools. That, IMHO, is one of the best ways to see where the emphasis of a program lies.</p>

<p>Dear All:</p>

<p>I've been absent from CC for a couple of months as I've been traveling and our daughter has been narrowing her field of colleges and conservatories down to a manageable (?) dozen. Overall, she's very pleased with her choices (she feels the schools she's selected are good matches for her) and is looking forward to the audition process (Dad is a little whacked, but she's doing just fine).</p>

<p>We head to Oklahoma City University this weekend (she auditions on November 19), and in January, she plans to audition for Catholic University, Syracuse University, Shenandoah University, and Baldwin-Wallace College. We're back home on the West Coast for a couple of weeks, and in early February, we head off to Arizona State University, Chicago (Otterbein, Hartford, Millikin), Rider University, Elon University, and Florida State University. I think we'll both be glad when it's over.</p>

<p>In any event, I want to thank you CC posters for your time and help over the past few months and wish your children well (Break a leg!) during the audition process. Who knows: We may run into each other on the audition trail!</p>

<p>Best wishes,</p>

<p>MTPapa</p>