<p>Daughter wants to major in voice..does want a pop career..Has decided she wants to go to NYC or CA...(YES I know what you all said about going to a school for the teacher..regardless she perfers at this time those two places)</p>
<p>So are there ANY AFFORDABLE schools there with that major for out of staters..I dont want to pay $40,000 a year!</p>
<p>I don't know about NYC outside of the CUNY system which may not have what she wants. Has she considered the School of FIne and Performing Arts at the State University of New York @ New Paltz, even as an out of state resident, it should be reasonable. New Paltz is a nice little town</p>
<p>Thanks Sybbie..will look at this..any other ideas ?</p>
<p>Have you considered Suny Purchase?</p>
<p>Agnst,</p>
<p>Also read the thread </p>
<p>I have a friend who is wayyyy underestimating on this thread, because the person is also looking at similar schools as your daughter. Jami and Soozie have given great advice.</p>
<p>all the best</p>
<p>I've tried to help you before as best I could. What you really need to do is get some college directories for Performing Arts as they contain a lot of information. Secondly, you need to examine what sort of degree program she wants...BA or BFA or BM. Conservatory? University? Also, what would her major be? Vocal Performance? If so, PLEASE be aware, as discussed before, that many of these programs focus on classical voice training and technique which helps ANY singer but it will not be popular voice. For that, many of us have recommended Berklee College of Music as your BEST bet. I also think you should look into the University of the Arts in Phila. As mentioned before, she may want to be in NYC or LA but when picking a college for her training, it is more about the training. It does not matter if the school is in NYC or LA (other than enjoyment of those settings) because she will not be looking for work that much while in intensive training programs. She will be working on shows or recitals at her own college. What she needs to do AFTER college is move to NYC, LA or Nashville to jump start her career. You may want to go over that with her so she is not knocking out the best programs on location alone. </p>
<p>Even though these are not POP or contemporary music vocal programs....I did some looking for you in NYC or LA for schools with degrees in voice...</p>
<p>Brooklyn College of CUNY (BM)
California Institute of the Arts (BFA)
Cal State Fullerton (BM)
Cal State LA (BM)
Chapman University (BM)
Colburn School of Performing Arts (BM)
Five Towns College (BM)
Hunter College - CUNY (BM)
Juilliard School (BM)
Lehman College of hte City Univ. of NY (BS)
Mannes College of Music (BM)
Musician's Institute (BM)....commercial music
NYU-Steinhardt (BM)
Nyack College (BM)
Aaron Copland School of Music at Queens College of CUNY (BM)
SUNY Purchase (BM)
Univ. of California Irvine (BM)
Univ. of California, Santa Barbara (BM)
UCLA (BM)
University of the Pacific
William Patterson Univ. of NJ (BM)...not far from NYC</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Sybbie...my advice on that other thread was for THEATER....or Musical Theater.....not quite the same schools but all do involve auditioning. </p>
<p>Angst's D's voice teachers should also have some recommendations. Even though I posted schools above, they really are NOT what I think she is looking for. Based on previous threads, she wants pop music. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>ok,</p>
<p>Put as always, you stepped up to the plate to help someone in need.</p>
<p>thanks
Sybbie</p>
<p>The College of Santa Fe in New Mexico has a nice Contemporary Music major program. Not CA or NY but in an artsy city in a small college. SUNY Binghamton also has a music program where the voice audition is contemporary music. The SUNYs, in general are a good bet to peruse. </p>
<p>But most vocal performance programs are heavily classical. They also tend to be selective, actually preselective as well, since few go into this field without some heavy duty training for years. Solflege, piano, theory can all come into play for voice. You do need to start looking around for the contemporary music programs.</p>
<p>Jamimom, College of Santa Fe and SUNY Binghamton sound like great options for her daughter as they offer contemporary music and that is not that common to find. Same with Berklee and Univ. of Arts in PA. I think before picking schools, they need to pick what sort of program they want that is best suited to her interests. Also her D does not play piano to my knowledge (which certainly helps when voice is concerned). I agree about the heavy duty training before applying to these programs. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Well she has had heavy duty training in voice..since kindergarten..but she does want pop music. (She did classical etc when she was younger)
Susan. I know what you have said about picking the school NOT the location but she is adamant about wanting NY or CA..she wants to be in these areas.
So I was trying to find a program that is affordable in these areas..She wants to be a pop singer..
BTW as far as her demo its going great..we got the photo proofs and they are wonderful and I think she will be ready to record in a month or so..its taking longer cus we are adding an original</p>
<p>Angstridden, I suggested schools in those two cities that have BM degrees in vocal performance but they might not be right for her because you need to examine their curriculums because MOST do not do POPULAR MUSIC. That was my point. Vocal Performance helps any style singer with technique but clearly the focus will not be on pop music. That is why I brought up Berklee and U of the Arts in Philly and Jamimom brought up two other options not in NYC because they have what your D apparently wants. </p>
<p>I realize she has had "heavy duty training" in voice....any kid applying for either a BFA or a BM degree will have HAD to have had training to even apply. It is like a musical instrument, ya know? It is VERY competitive to get in. When she applies to the colleges I listed, for vocal performance, I am sure the audition will be CLASSICAL music for most of them but you can research each one in depth to see if any other style music is acceptable. If she went for a BFA in musical theater, she would have to sing legit musical theater repertoire. If she really wants pop music, you need to research schools that offer that, in my opinion. The other option is to train in vocal performance to learn voice technique, even though the repertoire is not pop. This is the crux of the issue at this juncture of your search. I would get a directory on colleges for the arts and then research each school in depth to learn more. I hope the list I gave you is a start if you really want a BM degree in voice. </p>
<p>Glad the demo project is coming along. Have fun with it. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Angst, by the way, let me know if you looked up the schools I wrote on a list of NYC and LA ones above and if any suited your daughter's interests.</p>
<p>Thanks Susan, you are most helpful. When I really think about it I guess there really isnt a school that teaches what she wants. I mean she has trained for years..with the lessons and choral groups to get the sight reading etc. And dance and now guitar to get a feel for it.
Next year she will be in the high schools Advanced Music Studies program --- well maybe she should take the money we have saved for college and just go for it instead of going to college..
shocking coming from an educator..but maybe...</p>
<p>Any particular directory?</p>
<p>I have a suggestion - have you looked at the University of Redlands east of LA? They have a very good music program, and although their vocal program does not look like it's geared to pop music, Redlands has the Johnston Center. Students enrolled in the Johnston Center custom-create their own curriculums and even classes based on their particular areas of interests. It might be a fit for your daughter in this way as she could focus her program on pop if she wants. Redlands isn't outrageously expensive and is VERY good about negotiating financial aid. <a href="http://www.redlands.edu%5B/url%5D">www.redlands.edu</a></p>
<p>Angst, honestly, college music programs are not my expertise as I have not researched them thoroughly. If you had said BFA in Musical Theater programs, that is horse of a different color as I am currently immersed in that process, lol. But I did look at all NYC and LA schools today, going through directories for BM in Vocal Performance (which was what your original post asked about). Again, these programs really are not for pop but one or two gave me a feeling that perhaps if you delved further on their websites, you might find some that MIGHT include this area...I forget the couple ones where I had this inkling to research further had it been for my kid. One was Musician's Institute in CA as it noted "commercial music". By listing the schools I could find that had a BM in Voice in those two cities, I was hoping you would look at their websites (I did not) and explore what they offered more specfically. I only was looking in directories as a first step for you which already took me a while to read the summaries. </p>
<p>When my D started her college search process, I looked on Amazon for any specific college directories for the arts and then of course you need to research each school's own websites and send for information (call). In my D's case, I had been reading about this area a bunch, including on College Confidential and knew which schools to look into. Here are two directories that I have that might be of interest to you:</p>
<p>Peterson's Professional Degree Programs in Visual and Performing Arts</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>ARCO The Performing Arts Major's College Guide</p>
<p>I hope you will take a look online at the schools I found in directories and see what they offer and if any sound appropriate. </p>
<p>I understand when you say your D has trained for years. Be aware that ANY kid entering such programs has also trained for years. So, they do not enter college just starting out here. They are already pretty accomplished but are ready for the next level of training that college entails. I don't mean this to downplay what your child has done thus far but it is normal in terms of prerequisites to enter such a degree program. As well, she is just beginning in dance and so would benefit from more years of jazz/ballet technique and hip hop. Learning piano and music theory too. </p>
<p>Yes, she can try to make it without college. Some do. College is not gonna hurt her but only help. It often leads to something else. </p>
<p>For example, in my D's field, in the top BFA programs, they take all their seniors to NYC for a showcase before invited agents....that cannot hurt. </p>
<p>I would not give up the college idea just yet. If your D is going to go it on her own, at least she needs representation and she does not yet have that, so maybe you can plug away on both fronts. I know you are making a demo and assume you are meaning to submit it to agents, right? Ya never know but I can tell you in theater, submitting blindly to agents is the MOST difficult path to representation. Some agents will take you but that is not the best path to that end. My child's agent likely gets TONS Of blind submissions daily in her office as she is a top agent particularly for youth in NYC. She has many clients currently on Broadway. She likely goes through these envelopes once in a while and might contact someone to interview. But otherwise, the majority get agents through networking, contacts, being SEEN by the agent, etc. In my D 's case, we have NEVER submitted blindly to an agent or manager. Some learned of my D and asked her to come in and she auditioned for them and then got offers. Sometimes one thing led to another. Agents also have come to her summer program looking for new talent, etc. So, move forward on the demo submissions to agents but you can't count on that. That is why sometimes things like college or other programs, or even shows your D gets in and can be seen, can lead to the next thing. That is more the typical path. </p>
<p>As well a while back, I, along with others, suggested that before she tries to make it in NYC or LA, that she perhaps start a teen group in your area and secure gigs. You have to start somewhere. My D is not starting on Broadway, but first has 40 theatrical credits elsewhere (and she is just 16 and has a LONG way to go) and will likely get more in college before her big break, IF EVER, comes. It is a jungle out there. I have been at many Broadway auditions, and the talent you are up against is not like in your own neighborhood. I know you are talking pop vocalist but that is also hard to make it too. That does not mean not to try (after all my own kid is going for it) but be realistic of what is involved here. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>My son went to youth theatre workshops with a very intense and gifted young actor whose dream was to make it in LA or NYC. The young man applied to acting programs and was accepted to one at NYU, probably Tisch. But his parents were initiating a nasty divorce, money was tight and there was just no way he was going to be able to get the $40K plus per year to go there. He ended up taking a gap year and staying with someone in the city, auditioning, working, and looking around. He decided he was not quite ready to take on the jungle despite the fact that he did get a few roles. He is now at Pace University in NYC which is much cheaper than NYU, the dorms make it affordable to live in Manhattan, and their program is much more flexible than NYU's, allowing him to audition and partake in anything he might come across. That compromise worked well for him. And he will get some credits towards a degree, even if he does not get a degree while he pursues his dream. </p>
<p>Kids sometimes can use the shelter that a college provides from the "real world". Particularly in cities such as NYC and LA. There are a number of drama schools in both cities, I know that offer certificate programs or courses at quite reasonable prices and very flexible schedules that allow you to audition and work as you study your craft. In fact many of them are the very studios that contract out with NYU such as Stella Adler or Lee Strasberg. Grace Kelly studied at a studio rather than going to college to get her start. </p>
<p>But for someone under 21 (and of course, this varies from "child" to "child"), a college offers an enclosed community, an umbrella of sorts to make things a little safer, a little more controlled. And it can offer the courses in a more academic setting. So, in my opinion, it is just safer and easier to send a young person into a hot city via college. </p>
<p>I don't know much about pop music programs at all so I cannot help you in that area. I just happened to notice the contemporary music major at Santa Fe, and I noticed that Binghamton allows you to audition for their vocal program using pop or MT pieces, which is unusual as most voice programs are classically based. My son is auditioning at Northwestern as a voice major as a possible prelude to their MT program which does not start until a student is a sophomore. He needs to sing 4 classical songs, one in German, one in Italian. a third in German, Italian or French, and his choice for the fourth. Several specific pieces are suggested as examples which makes it pretty clear what kind of repertoire is expected for that program. If you don't recognize those pieces and have not studied any of them, you are probably not a fit for that program. </p>
<p>The Five Towns College is one where several kids I know who were rock band types ended up going, and they seem to be very happy there. It is not far from NYC, and it is a veritable bargain. They specialize in popular music, but I do not know what they have in the way of vocal performance in pop. I would check that school out. It is right near one of the SUNYs and shares some of its facilities as well. </p>
<p>The other alternative is just to let her go to a college in NY or CA that has a nice student body, good atmosphere, good prices, and lots of opportunities to perform in pop venues on campus. When I went to college, our student center had many entertainers and musicians who were students there, and they were very talented. There were several bands, and some are still performing, as one performed for a reunion a few years ago, and, boy, can they jam. That kind of experience might be the most valuable, and again, it would be under the umbrella of college which would reduce some angst, right?</p>
<p>How is the daughter at UMDCP doing? Did you see her for Thanksgiving? You might what to ask herwhat the student music scene is like at College Park, and send D2 there for a weekend visit to sniff out possibilities herself. Many kids find that a large flagship school is a real nirvana for performance possibilities. My son and daughter both found performance opportunities at college even though neither majored in music or performance. And they could have done so much more had that been a main thing in their lives.</p>
<p>You all have wonderful suggestions. Jamimom MD is more classically oriented and daughter is adamant that she wants NY or CA. We also know someone with similar goals who went there and is now at Belmont..though she wants country.
BTW other daughter LOVES LOVES UMDCP!</p>
<p>The fact is, there isn't much available in pop music at colleges. Read the bios of your favorite pop artists to discover how they got where they are. My guess is, most of them didn't come through a traditional college program, and if they did, it was mostly classical. So she may be better off going to a college she likes in NY or CA and, at the same time, pursuing pop music. But no one needs to go to college to become a pop singer so colleges don't usually invest much money in creating those kinds of programs. And the few that are out there, aren't in NY or CA. She may need to compromise at some point.</p>
<p>I have a radical suggestion: Let it go. So far we've heard from you on what she doesn't want, what she won't consider, etc. Why not sit back and let her log on to various schools websites and come up with her own plan???? She can go to the public library and check out the various arts directories, or look on the internet for lists of schools which offer merit money for kids with her profile interested in music performance if you can't pay full-freight. She should be the one figuring out if she needs to prepare for an audition, and if so, how to work that in with the demo schedule and her school commitments.</p>
<p>It's too easy for a kid to tell mom and dad "I want to be a rock star" and let them do the grunt work... if she's got the kind of commitment and thick skin required to make it in the arts (notice I didn't say talent... there are plenty of incredibly talented people who don't make it...) she'll take the ball and run with it now. If she doesn't... and expects you to find the answers for her, and oh by the way, LA and NYC would be nice, then you sort of have your answer. You've done your job-- encouraged her talent, given her specialized training, are supportive of her goals... now you get to relax and watch.</p>
<p>Not everyone needs to go to college (or should) but if she isn't stepping up to the plate right now with a lot of ideas, or isn't aggressively emailing the heads of various music departments to find out how she could do Pop music in their program, even if classical or jazz focused, she may not be as ready to launch her career as you are. Which is perfectly fine... but then she may need some guidance as to how to refocus on a college which provides a lot of performance opportunities even if her "degree" won't be in Pop music.</p>
<p>I have a cousin who was in the corps de ballet of a major company. Never made it to the Prima Ballerina ranks, but was a highly regarded dancer for years. You could not have stood in her way when she was 17. I have never seen such tenacity in my life. I can't imagine a successful artist getting anywhere if they're relying on Mom and Dad to lay the path for them.... they'd all be school librarians (my aunt's wish for my cousin... nice steady work with a pension after 25 years...) and Insurance salespeople (My uncle's wish...)</p>