<p>After an exhausting week on the road, driving from audition to audition, I have a serious case of college-admission blues. I'm feeling as though my D is competing for a prize rather than seeking an education. This week, I have sat in on information sessions, hearing how wonderful each university is, how welcoming, how nurturing, full of amazing opportunities for young singers, and so on. Yet, I'm acutely aware that my D may not turn out to be one of few chosen to attend, no matter how hard she has worked for it or how dedicated she is. I am so envious of the relatively straightforward application process of non-music applicants who do not have the giant hurdles of pre-screening and auditioning to contend with. Academically, D is near the top of her class (top 5%) with great GPA/ACT scores, really interesting essays, a very compelling community leadership background, and an impressive list of performances and competitions. I can't help feeling that if she had applied for any other major, she would have a wide choice of schools. Yet with 7 years of classical voice training and 14 years in classical piano, she has set her sights on becoming a musician. As parents, it took us a little while to become reconciled to the track D has chosen, but her talent, her commitment, and her genuine interest in learning about music at a sophisticated level have converted us. The prescreening/audition process has me wondering, though. So far, she has auditioned at three schools, passed pre-screens for two more, and failed pre-screen for two (including my favorite school for her). We have yet to hear from three more schools. The auditions seemed to go well, but there were just so much competition! Lots of really talented, beautiful, smart girls, all with similar training and the same hopes. Everything I know and read about voice training indicates that professional potential cannot be assessed until junior or senior year in college, when the voice is more developed--yet our girls are judged on high-school pre-screening tapes that either open or close to door for them. It's just so demoralizing, especially considering that at this point they are seeking an EDUCATION that they will pay for, not a job. Thankfully, D has been accepted by a fabulous teacher at a good, though not prestigious school, which is, sadly, a long way from home. I guess my main point is that I wish the application process gave more focus to the goal of educating young singers and turning them into performing musicians, rather than the audition atmosphere that makes it look and feel like a high-stakes, do-it-now-or-die singing competition.</p>
<p>I am right there with you, although I have a S in the process so it is a little less competitive. Like your D, he has very high academic stats, which are kind of wasted in this process. S even commented “I wish I could sell my SAT and class rank to someone.”</p>
<p>This is my 2nd kid with an auditioned major (older D is an MT major) so I am experienced with this feeling - please, please think my kid is good enough! But, even though D1 did not get her 1st, or 2nd choice of school - she is completely happy where she ended up and has even found some new directions for her career that would not have been open to her anywhere else. Breathe deeply and accept the process, at least that’s what I keep telling myself.</p>
<p>I went through this and watched as my D got her BM and then MM in voice. It’s tough and gets tougher. It is now your D’s choice,her struggle and you need to find a way of detaching yourself from a lot of this hoo haa. (as if I did 
…HA! )<br>
It is a constant competition. It does not stop after undergrad or grad school. It only gets worse. SERIOUSLY WORSE. D has just about finished audition season. I have lost count (11,15,16???), but I do know that she has had at least five cross country trips, including a seven day stint in NYC. This is considered perfectly normal. Two of the YAPs where she had a sort of “in”, are not even auditioning this year. She has received a few offers, but the money is so bad she turned them down. She will perform this year, has 5 in town dates and 2 cross country but as of yet no year long contract offers. And her teacher points out that she is one of the lucky ones. She continues to support herself teaching and performing but as you said…it is still a high stakes, do-it-now or die singing competition. And THOSE singing competitions keep going on and on as well 
…But the most important lesson for your daughter is that this round of auditions is part of the learning curve. Even if your D ends ups at the top of the thousand or so singers in her graduating class, she will probably spend more time and effort on auditioning and competing than she does actual performing. She needs to learn how to schedule, practice,focus and actually somehow enjoy the process. While you learn to write checks and just cope.
BTW, I have lost track as to how many auditions D has done simply in order to keep myself out of the looney bin. It’s not easy being supportive and detached at the same time. At least I do not have to write any more checks!! Good luck.</p>
<p>My S just got back from Youngarts and his favorite class (besides masterclass with Placido Domingo) was one with Eric Owens who basically said “This life sucks. Only do it if you can’t do anything else!” He vividly described the uncertainty, the living out of your suitcase, the flea-bag hotels, being sick, etc. And he’s one of the successful ones! Of course, that just made S more determined than ever to do this. “Stubbornness, thy name is my child!”</p>
<p>Thanks for the words of support, megpmom and musicamusica. It helps to hear from people who have been through the process. I agree that detached support is probably the answer and I have to find a way to stop my disappointment with the process from spilling over and affecting D’s confidence. Young and sweet as she is, D is also a fierce competitor and has survived many, many audition/competition situations bravely so far. </p>
<p>Last night, my husband as my 14 year old son what he would like to study in college–his answer? Singing… I often worry that the encouragement and support I have given both kids to this point is leading them to a future of uncertainty and instability. How do we get our kids to believe that their talents can take them in other directions, too?</p>
<p>Something that teachers hardly EVER tell you as an undergrad is how expensive the post graduate audition spree is. Reason #987 on why you need to avoid debt at all costs. D knows more than a few fantastic singers saddled with enormous debt who had to cut their audition season short since they just could not afford it.
OK, debt lecture over.</p>
<p>Good point about debt, but at 18 years old I don’t think students realize the importance of money considerations, no matter how parents try to explain it. D has already been offered a great merit award and has auditioned for talent scholarships at a smaller school with what seems to be an excellent music department. But she worries about being challenged at a small school and that the degree she graduates with will not stack up against those of students from prestigious schools. I don’t know if kids truly understand the difference between a school that will cost them $10K per year after scholarships versus a larger school that will cost $30K or $40K per year. Another thing that worries me about the small school is that if, by chance, she changes her mind about a career in opera, she has reduced her options in terms of switching majors and still graduating from a respected school.</p>
<p>Make her understand. Naive notions can get very expensive.</p>
<p>Vocal performance education is different than any other sort of performance education.As an undergrad she should be challenging herself and not others.
Seriously…how you sing after your undergrad is important for grad admissions and little else. I think you should seriously consider whether or not she has the option of switching majors. Is it an LAC or out of state? Because any music related scholarships would not longer be available. Grad school needs to be considered—even if she has the chops to get a fully funded MM, it still costs money and time. But for grad school, they could care less about the prestige factor. It is STILL all about your audition. Take a look at recent MM’s who are doing well. The undergrad education is all over the map. At least two of D’s friends in big YAPs never even got their undergrad in voice or any other music. They all pursued voice through private lessons during their non music undergrad years. These are the sort of people you could learn to hate. ;)</p>
<p>While I hate to discourage anyone from pursuing their dreams, IF you daughter has other interest she might consider pursuing, please encourage her.</p>
<p>My son is one who has a lot of debt, he received lots of money from the schools he attended, but he still needed tons of loans. He has had to cancel auditions and competition slots many times because he did not have the money to travel. Basically we have given him everything extra we have to support him, but it is a very expensive endeavor, particularly for a female, their wardrobe needs are considerably more.</p>
<p>There is so much involved in the total package for a singer; talent, training, technique, acting, poise, stage presence, work ethic, organization, passion, drive and that little something extra that makes people want to watch you sing. And luck, luck and luck.</p>
<p>But…the above qualities can make an individual highly sought after in other fields. So the needed personal qualities and training for a singer, who will not end up singing for a career, need not go to waste.</p>
<p>I don’t like to talk about my sons successes, but I will say that he is doing well for his level in this career. He is staying with us for a couple of months (between gigs) to save money. He walked by the door just now and I asked him what % of where he is now is luck, he said with out hesitation 75%, at least. Although I will say he has worked hard to put himself in a position where “luck” would more easily find him!</p>
<p>^the harder you work…the luckier you get. And BOY those kids who succeed work HARD.</p>
<p>^^LOVED your post, srw! I totally agree!</p>
<p>I can definitely relate to all of the concerns and anecdotes expressed by each of you. I have had all the same thoughts as the process has unfolded for my kids. It is nerve-wracking! </p>
<p>But in regards to stats and scholarships, we have discovered that we were probably overly concerned about ‘wasting’ academic merits.</p>
<p>Granted, my kids chose to apply only to schools that offered a variety of majors – LAC’s and a few state schools – zero straight-conservatories.</p>
<p>We found that each school rewarded their high academic stats with very generous scholarships. I’m guessing that conservatories might tend to ignore academic stats more than LACs. But, in our experience, LACs and state schools reward their best academic performers, regardless of one’s stated major.</p>
<p>In regards to the possibility of changing majors:
The kids (and I) felt strongly that they should apply only to schools that offered a wide variety of majors, in case they discovered a new love or weren’t succeeding in or loving music as much as they expected. Plus, they had so many interests; it was hard, at age 17 and 18, to limit their options to JUST music, period, or else. Turns out, none of them have changed their majors, but if they HAD done so, the merit money WOULD HAVE followed them.</p>
<p>I have a music major attending an LAC right now. He is in the process of applying to grad schools. So far, his liberal arts education from a smaller, lesser known ‘music school’ has not interfered too much with his goals – any ‘interference’ has been counterbalanced by the benefits of attending an LAC. He has had incredible opportunities that a Juilliard (for example) undergrad would likely not have had. He has definitely been challenged, despite – and because of – the fact that he has been the big fish in a smaller pond. So, I think it’s a bit of a myth that talented kids who attend lesser-known, smaller schools aren’t challenged. But, when teamed up with kids from some of our nation’s best conservatories at various programs he’s attended, my son HAS noticed some weaknesses that are probably a result of his choice to attend an LAC. AND, there is no doubt that an abundance of ‘bigger fish’ could have pushed him in areas that he didn’t feel pushed at the LAC. But in other areas, he was MORE pushed and garnered more experience than his conservatory-trained peers because of his big-fish status. In sum, he thinks the strengths and weaknesses of conservatories versus LACs balance each other out, that one style of education is not better or worse than the other, and that the weaknesses he’s discovered in himself can be overcome in grad school and other programs. He has no regrets. He’ll be completing a superb undergraduate education with minimal debt (thanks to enormous scholarships that wouldn’t have been possible at better-known conservatories) and will hopefully be accepted by the same grad schools as his straight-conservatory peers. We’ll see what happens …</p>
<p>My post is kind of off-topic, I know. But it does address those concerns about attending a ‘less prestigious’ school. We’ve had an amazing experience with the LAC route. Very happy!</p>
<p>In regards to the general gist of the OP’s post:
It’s tricky. I understand the complaints – it’s an EDUCATION – why all the narrowing of options at such a young age with uber-competitive standards? But I also understand the factors that brought the schools and the process to this point. As in sports, it seems to make sense that schools and music teachers are most interested in attracting the best of the best in their fields. Success with their students begets success – and money. It’s demoralizing at times for sure. But it also makes sense in lots of ways. And for those who aren’t at the top of the talent heap YET when their high school educations come to a close, possibly simply due to fewer opportunities or less experience or a later start, there are all sorts of lesser-known colleges with devoted faculty that can and will offer a music EDUCATION – sometimes with larger scholarships than better-known colleges. And the students who choose to attend them CAN still navigate their ways to successful music careers from there. It will eventually all come down to TALENT – and LUCK! But, as somebody else pointed out above, there are lots of different paths to a good career.</p>
<p>Mostly, though, I’d like to offer my support to the OP. I get it. It can definitely be a frustrating, worrisome, and demoralizing process. For me, it has helped in times of stress, to keep my focus on what is best for MY OWN kid. That may or may not be the path most chosen, or most advertised, by OTHERS. Wishing you the best as you and your D navigate these rough seas! ;)</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone, for your answers. I’m sure I’ll be reading and re-reading this thread over and over before decision time.</p>
<p>My S is not a vocal student (instrumental, violin) but I hear your calls load and clear. One of the biggest lessons in all this is to stop assuming that the process of becoming a musician (or singer) is some sort of science, it isn’t. With academic admits, at the very least, you have a good feel if you are a good candidate for a school, if you have an 1800 SAT where the typical range is 2200+, or if your GPA is .5 points lower then the average, you know it is a long shot, you at least have an idea. With music, it is all so subjective that it does seem like it is like winning the lottery or something. In auditions, you just never know what it is they are looking for, it could be the audition panel is cranky because it is near dinner time and they are hungry, it could be they don’t like the style of playing a student has been taught, could be they look at the kid and decide on the spot they don’t like them…in music competitions, as I saw recently, an incredibly talent person who has done incredibly well at some major international competitions doesn’t even get mention, and someone else who is nowhere near their league in terms of anything, ends up winning one of the senior awards (sometimes in competitions,being the best may hurt you, if the judges have chips on their shoulders)…</p>
<p>And it is so hard as a parent, at times I look at the process and it really gets me angry, because in so many ways it seems (to me, of course) that they are looking for the wrong things…and with voice, from what I know of it, it is even more frustrating, because with voice students you don’t really know how good a singer someone is going to be until they are much older, yet the audition process seems to be this thing that claims it can take an 18 year old and predict how good they will be, when it can’t…and it is possible the kid they rejected becomes a superstar, and the kid they accepted instead is a lemon.</p>
<p>On the other hand, one thing I would take out of this, as I try to do with my S, is that the craziness of music, the unfairness of it, the brutality of it at times, is teaching a lesson, and it is a valuable life lesson, and that is how to face situations like this and keep on going. Even if eventually music doesn’t work out, they have gained so much, because it is hard, and because they have had to deal with nebulousness and fickleness and ambiguity. All I can say is the best performers in the world, in almost any endeavor, tend to be people who can deal with uncertainty, with situations where the answers are not all that clear, where they aren’t afraid to deal with it. People who can read between the lines, who can look into a murky crystal ball and still say “I think we should do x”, usually prove themselves valuable in any line of work. I work in a specialty where there are a ton of people who work using rote methods, who churn things out based on formulaic thinking, and they are the drones, but there are a small percentage who can do the same job when dealing with situations ‘standard’ thinking can’t handle, ill defined goals, no real documentation, constantly shifting priorities, rapidly changing environment, and they tend to be the ones who end up doing really well, while the others collect a paycheck. Music makes the kind of nebulousness I deal with seem easy, so the kids who experience the craziness and heartbreak and uncertainty and keep going are learning something beyond value IMO. </p>
<p>I know, probably doesn’t make it any easier, don’t know if at times it makes it any easier on myself, but it is one of the things that makes me feel a bit easier about jumping off the deep end. More importantly, have confidence in your kids, if they got through the big issues of toilet training and tying their shoes, the rest is all downhill :)</p>
<p>Annie43,
I hear what you are saying. It is so hard to watch our children work hard for something they love and then worry about whether or not they will make it. And we, as parents, can fantasize about a world where our children meet with endless success and praise and rewards for their hard work. We also can as parents wish that our children never get hurt or rejected or have to take any risks. But alas, that is not the way the world works. And now that my kids are getting older I am beginning to appreciate the benefits of failure. Failure can be a good thing. Why? Well if you are an artist (of any kind) and you fail and you are determined to make art then you continue and push forward and it is in that push forward that often times greatness is achieved. The difference between those with just talent and those who go on to make a significant contribution to their field is all in the determination to push forward and to deal with failure and not let failure stop them. </p>
<p>Your daughter needs to know that you are not afraid of her failing. She needs to see that you see in her the potential to create and make beautiful music and that you believe she will no matter what obstacles are thrown in her way. And if she decides at some point that she does not want to sacrifice and create art that you know she will be able to use her talents to do something else wonderful. She is young and has time on her side. </p>
<p>Good Luck to both of you.</p>
<p>I can so relate to this thread! My D is going VP, but started performing in MT at the age of 11. It has involved countless auditions, rehearsals, voice/dance lessons, summer programs, and the costs that go with them. I am thankful that through the process, I’ve found parents like myself to provide support, networking, and just plain venting.</p>
<p>And here I am fretting over a “late” prescreening letter from a school that S doesn’t even want to audition at. He wanted to pull his application 2 weeks ago, but I insisted that he at least wait until all of his prescreens are in to make any decisions on where to audition. And now, I’m stressed that he hasn’t heard from this particular school (even though others have) and he’s cool as a cucumber. I like the process better with my older D - I don’t even hear about auditions, etc. until after she hears back.</p>
<p>musicprnt–nice post. But I am going to nit-pick. A singer IS a musician. ;)</p>
<p>^Hahhaahaa. I didn’t even notice that! How insulting. 
(but I get what you meant, musicprnt)</p>
<p>I had the good fortune to attend one of Stephen King’s master classes not too long ago. Wow. He is so impressive! Anyway, even with the really high level of talent in that group of grad students, I was awestruck at just how HARD these students have to work to perfect their craft. It was so fascinating to witness the finesse and the vast multitude of thoughts and actions required to execute what will ultimately sound pure and beautiful and EASY to do! So much attention to detail! Since just about everybody can ‘sing’ at some level, and since (like all musicians) the singer’s job is to make it look and sound easy, I think it’s kind of natural for non-singers to downplay the education, talent, and expereince required to make a beautiful, professional sound. Much admiration here for all musicians. Impressive!</p>
<p>Love this discussion, it makes me feel like I"m not the only one!</p>
<p>The audition season is so frustrating, stressed out parents, stressed out kid, winter travel, loads of money, good lord, it was painful. But as you hear over and over again, in the end, your kid usually ends up exactly where they should have been. I’m a little ashamed to admit that you get sucked into the competitive thing too, sitting in the audition area, judging the other girls, what they are wearing, straining to hear them sing in the room. It does get this really high stakes feel to it, and as a parent you are just thinking if there was anything I could do to make this happen for my child I would do it, but you can’t. So you get bottled water for them, tea, go to bed at a ridiculous hour in the hotel even though you aren’t tired, but they want to, try to humidify the hotel room, help with hair, hold coats, hold boots, the whole thing.</p>
<p>When my d was saying she wanted to pursue vp as a soprano no less, we at first were very hesitant. But at the end of the day, it came down to the fact that she could not see herself doing ANYTHING else. We asked, we suggested, we discussed. No go. We decided to support her in her dream, because I would hate for her to hit 40 and look back with regret that she didn’t try for her dream. If you don’t try, you definitely won’t do it. We figured she can always do other things, it won’t be easy, but to be doing something you love everyday? What a gift.</p>
<p>It is so wonderful now to hear that my daughter LOVES her school, her vocal instructor, and what she is doing. And, if later on, she decides she has had enough of the competition, she can always pursue something else. Many times a degree is the only requirement, not a specifics degree, the degree is a gate. She’ll have that. </p>
<p>Now, I may feel differently in 3 years when we are going through the whole masters audition thing!</p>
<p>Right there with you, CurlyMom. I, too, tried to talk my son out of a music degree when he first announced his choice. I did it politely and with restraint. Asking, suggesting, discussing. But he ultimately said, “Somebody’s going to be my generation’s next, big, successful opera singer in fifteen or twenty years. Why can’t that person be me?” I don’t know … There was just something about that innocent, bright-eyed, eager question that stopped me dead in my tracks and put me 100% behind him and his dreams. </p>
<p>That was 5 years ago this month, when he was a high school junior. He is now applying for grad schools, and I still don’t feel any differently. </p>
<p>I suppose there still may come a time? …</p>