<p>(This is my post copied from the "Colleges For Musical Theater" thread where Coach C just posted her last long wonderful info that also is posted here.....)</p>
<p>Hi Coach C!</p>
<p>Can't tell you how much we all appreciate your taking the time to post here. You've already shared such valuable information and I know it will help many people.</p>
<p>I would like to take issue with just one statement you made in your previous post - "girls MUST DO a belt song for nearly all conservatory auditions, as well as a legit song!!!"</p>
<p>I'm sorry, but our experience suggests otherwise and I don't want upcoming students stressing about being able to demonstrate a belt song and a legit song. I'm not saying that an applicant shouldn't show both if they have both - clearly that makes for a very attractive vocal package. It's the "MUST DO" phrase that I think is misleading. I think that a successful applicant will have thought about and have chosen songs that demonstrate vocal range, i.e., low notes and high notes within their specific voice type, as well as range of character, tempi, etc; but showing a strong, healthy lower range does not directly correspond to singing a "belt" song. </p>
<p>Lastly, and here is where I'm just expressing my opinion, not fact, but from what I've seen in professional performance and learned from the college audition process, I think the top schools are more interested in students who can demonstrate healthy, legitimate vocal technique - low and or high - than those who can belt like Ethel Merman but can't produce a legitimate, clear, supported tone in their head voice or transition smoothly over the entire range of their voice. People all too often equate the word "legitimate" to only the soprano voice and that's also not true. As you noted, any voice teacher worth his or her salt can teach a healthy singer how to produce a belt or mixy belt. Recovering a head voice blown out by misuse of the vocal chords is much more difficult and maybe impossible if too much damage has already been done.</p>
<p>Hope this makes sense. Thanks again and hope you continue to share your great info.</p>
<p>i certainly won't try to correct anyone. i realize an audition for a conservatory is different from others. although, i am pretty naive about a lot of this. just thought i'd throw in my 2 cents regarding our experience. it might help someone. it applies to ocu. they defintely don't want a belt. if they hear one, they automatically assume vocal damage. they don't think kids this age should be belting. they ask for a classical piece as well as an mt piece. but, your mt piece had better have a very classical sound. they focus on opera a great deal and you need to bear that in mind in your selections. i don't pretend to speak for the school. this is just my conclusion based on a substantial amount of information from them as well as personal experience. hope it helps someone.</p>
<p>Hmmm...razorback, I'm not trying to negate the value of your experience, but I got a very different impression. When I went to see "Seussical," there was a lot of belting. I talked to some of the students about their experiences in voice lessons, and I remember that one of the male teachers (I'm sorry, I forget which one) wrote his dissertation on belting. I think what they are really big proponents of is healthy singing, which, to me, means using the foundations of classical training. (Just as a side note, my MT song was kind of backwoodsy and country and not classical in nature at all. However, that may not have mattered since I sang a big old aria for my other song.)</p>
<p>Anyway, sorry for getting a bit off-topic. CoachC, you bring a great wealth of information! Thank you! However, may I add my two cents? In my (very humble) opinion, it's not so important to do a belt and a legit, but more to do one song that fits your voice and is great, and another one that shows that you can do something different. So, for a belter, that may be a big belt piece and then something more legato, and for a soprano/soaring tenor, that may be a legit piece and then something more fun and upbeat. Does that okay for those who haven't mastered the healthy belt yet?</p>
<p>Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to add something about voice health. For those with sinus blockage problems and chronic sinusitis, may I recommend nasal rinsing with saline. Of course, consult a doctor before starting any treatment regimen, but this is a home remedy that I have found inexpensive and highly effective. It really helps you drain! You can find expensive little thingies online that are supposed to make it easier, but really, all you need is an aspirator (I think that is what they are called?) like they use for newborns. Just thought I'd throw this out there.</p>
<p>Theatermom and Shauna are right - I apologize for my misstatement. It is CONTRAST that singers must demonstrate for most programs - and it does not necessarily have to be a belt/legit contrast. Of course, as theatermom said, if a girl CAN belt, so much the better, especially since belting is so marketable right now. But of course a poorly-produced belt is not going to gain points in an audition. Most talented young sopranos can BECOME amazing belters because their overall technique is so solid, but many have not discovered that by the time they audition for schools - and the schools know this and listen with highly-experienced ears for overall vocal potential. I know of many FIERCE collegiate belters (who now GET HIRED as belters) who really didn't "know how" to belt when they auditioned; they have come into their belting excellence gradually and healthily, through good CLASSICAL vocal technique. So girls, do NOT rip your throats apart trying to belt higher than you should - but do show contrast, and show your chest register if you can - just don't push it higher than it wants to go! (As theatermom pointed out, you can of course sing "legit" in your low register by bringing your head register down - true "belt" is the opposite of that, pushing your chest register up. But many MT singers who we THINK are belting upon first listen are really "mixing" - it's pretty cool to listen carefully and pick out the difference - cause a good mixy belt is just as exciting and "pingy" as a healthy true belt.)</p>
<p>Here is what the CCM website says about song choice for THEIR auditions, nicely detailing what theatermom and Shauna mentioned about contrast:</p>
<p>"One selection should have a sustained legato line; the second should be "up-tempo" and provide a contrast in rhythm, mood, characterization, style and approach. It may show special skills such as comic timing, dramatic flair, ability with patter, or, for women, the "belt" voice. By selecting songs that are similar in every way, inexperienced auditionees often miss the opportunity to show a range of abilities."
<a href="http://staging.uc.edu/ccm/musical_theatre/audition.htm%5B/url%5D">http://staging.uc.edu/ccm/musical_theatre/audition.htm</a></p>
<p>And I was VERY intrigued by razorback's mention of OCU's aversion to belters, so I looked a their website, and here's what is says:</p>
<p>We are now TOTALLY on the same page!! Your description of what the "best" schools (and by that I'm not referring to the so-called "Ivies" but the the schools that kids should want to go to and ones that parents should want their kids to go to) are looking for in auditions and how they approach teaching to belt exactly mirrors our experiences. My own D is a soprano who has had only classical vocal technique training. Before her college auditions in '03-'04, she did quite a bit of stressing about the fact that while she has a healthy 2 and a half octave range for singing (3 for vocalizing), she had never been taught or tried to belt. She was quite successful in her auditions, however, and has just finished her freshman year at UM. I know that you have several students who are now there so you will probably recognize the initials of my D's faculty voice teacher starting this fall - M.R. My D could not be more excited to have been accepted to her studio and they have already spent some time together. M.R. has told my D that given her healthy technique, it will be no problem to teach her a healthy belt technique to "have in her pocket" by the time she graduates. Just as you said, M.R. said that given my D's range and type, she may not be called on to use it much, but it is important that she have it. If you continue going to UM to see your students in shows, I can only hope that my D will be with them on stage so you can see her too.</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your thoughtful and really helpful response!</p>
<p>shauna, i don't mean to argue, but i believe with all my heart that if anyone belted during an audition, they would immediately be crossed off. maybe i'm wrong, but this is based on very credible information and my feeling is, why chance it? the safe route at ocu is to give them what they want. they want opera. one of their professors, who was also an audition judge, directed a camp this summer. this was one of the tidbits he shared with the kids as far as what they look for. anyone reading this can take this with a grain of salt. but, if i wanted to get into ocu, i would err to caution and avoid a belt number. i'm sure they do plenty of belting in their musicals. but, this is after those kids have been trained the way they want to train them. they assume that if you have been belting before you got to them, you're doing it wrong. they just have so many kids come through auditions, that they have selected a few "red flags" to narrow the field and this is one of them. again, this is my impression based on information from the school, but, it's pretty reliable in my book. there's just no reason to take a chance.</p>
<p>coach, i posted before reading your post. that is very interesting about ocu's making some changes. i would bet my life though that they will still want a classical sound for both, just based on their focus on opera. in their school schedule, their mt courses are listed as "opera music theatre." they are just very different in their audition process and mt program than many of the others. of course, i'm just basing my info on the others on what i've read here. but, their mt program is under the school of music and the voice is definitely the focus. their auditions required a classical piece and an mt piece, a monologue and just dance leveling. but, the scores are not averaged. you must first make a minimum score (which is pretty high) on your vocal audition before your monologue score is even considered. my understanding is that it doesn't matter what your monologue score is if you don't make that minimum score on the vocal. i don't mean to argue, this is just the info we've received and understood to be true. btw, your posting and info here has been wonderful.</p>
<p>The assumption that kids who enter college who can belt are not belting correctly is not one I agree with. Many kids work with voice teachers prior to college and the voice teachers ensure that they are belting properly and also learn how to use a mixed belt and how to transition from chest to head and so forth. It seems as if it might be beneficial for a student who can sing both legit soprano and belt. Often most are better at one than the other but whichever is your weaker one, you would be working on it. To think that a program would not want anyone to belt before college age, I dunno but it seems that as long as someone does it properly, it should be just fine. Some programs do prefer certain types of voices, I'm sure. Some really like the legit soprano sound. But it also seems like any program would want ALL types of voices and actors as these kids are gonna be their future casts and many shows require many kinds of voice types. I would think in an audition, it would be important to show a variety of skills but to showcase one's strengths as well. Showing range or showing you can sing both chest and head voice is good. Singing contrasting songs is good. But I can't agree with a concept that anyone who belts prior to a BFA program must not be doing it properly or the idea I have read that kids should not even be belting at all. Kids need to develop legit singing technique but clearly this could include the chest voice and the belt. Everyone has their strengths. Admittedly, I think my own kid's strength is the belt voice but she also sings legit and head voice as well. She has a voice teacher with a PHD who also is a faculty member of a theater program in NYC. I have never ever heard him discourage the belt voice and in fact, he has praised this strength of my D's in his rec, but he also teaches the head voice, the mix, the legit soprano....all those skills. He definitely does not discourage a young person singing a belt sound if they do it properly. This guy also has students currently on Broadway and who have won Tony awards. So, I can't see why it is so wrong for a young person, who is properly trained, to be using a belt voice prior to college. I'd like to think that colleges wanted kids to fill roles in their casts that needed a belt voice, as well as high legit operatic voices. Many voice types are needed in shows. No matter the voice type, proper technique is of essence. </p>
<p>Let me also say that I appreciate all that Coach has posted and agree with his advice, though I am an amateur of course. I also think Theatermom's description of her daughter showcases the point I am making as well. Her D's strength is the legit soprano (and things like range, too). But she will also work on developing a proper belt sound to have in her pocket but her voice type is a certain one that will make her most likely cast in soprano roles. Likewise, my own D has a wide range and while she is more likely to be cast as a mezzo or belter or singer/dancer or comedic role, she also has a legit soprano or head voice and a wide range. The latter is the area she would work on developing more, just like TheaterMom's D will work on developing her belt. It is sorta the same. Each kind of kid got into a BFA but the main thing was to have proper voice technique, no matter your vocal strength. Ideally, showing contrasting songs and range and a variety of skills works in a college audition but also schools admit a range of kids to eventually fill their casts. There has got to be a place for both belters and sopranos in any theater grouping. I can definitely see discouraging improper belt technique that would ruin a voice but I would hope that most voice teachers help kids develop proper belting and chest voices and how to mix. To think that someone entering college is assumed to be belting all wrong, is not across the board. I mean lots of these kids have trained with credentialed voice teachers so I hope they are not starting from scratch when they enter college but rather are developing further and also addressing weaknesses or areas needing more development.</p>
<p>The anecdote that Theatermom provided regarding what her D's college voice teacher said she will work on....is similar to what a faculty auditioner told my D at Syracuse (where she got into the BFA and a talent scholarship)....that person said if she comes to Syracuse, they will be working on developing her legit soprano more. Each kid who gets into these programs must be able to sing well and have potential but my feeling is once there, they will continue to build on their stengths but also address the areas less developed. For Theatermom's D that might be the belt and for my D, it might be developing a higher soprano sound.</p>
<p>Susan--You make some excellent points in your post! Like most things in life, this college audition process is not all "black and white." I still believe they want versatility, not just in the individual, but in the group they end up with for each year. My D was not a born belter, but her classical voice teacher taught her how to belt properly, and it clicked so that she's one of the "big belters" LOL. But she also keeps working on her legit soprano, with the goal that she's as comfortable singing high or low, as well as belting, mix or legit.</p>
<p>i can't explain everything ocu does or does not do. i'm not here to debate this issue with anyone. you'd have to debate it with the voice professors at ocu and ask them why they look at it as they do. i'm just sharing my experience with them along with information that was discussed with the kids who attended a music camp a few weeks ago. i don't pretend any of this is gospel. i'm just putting this info out there and if you want it, use it, if you don't, that's certainly your choice. but, with the audition being as competitive as it is, why would anyone want to chance doing something that even remotely seems risky. and as far as susan's post, yes, what you say is absolutely true. but, it may not be true for ocu. you just can't assume that what makes sense to you or what you've experienced at other schools or camps is accurate across the board. i had those same thoughts. it does make sense to offer contrast and show versatility. </p>
<p>i don't think anyone here needs to defend their belting experience or training. it's not being attacked. we all train with people of good credentials. i actually agree with you and all your reasons that belting should be fine. </p>
<p>i just think ocu uses this as a little "red flag" to help them narrow the field. if you auditon at another school, follow their lead. but, if you plan to audition at ocu, my impression is that you would be very foolish to belt, regardless how you feel about it. it's just a matter of doing what they ask for even if you disagree with it. i'm not proposing that their method of audition is right or wrong, it's just what it is. and who knows, when they post their new material, maybe it will change. (but i'll be very surprised.)</p>
<p>I have already seen your daughter perform (in the UM Freshman Showcase) and she is quite wonderful! (I especially loved "Goin' Courtin'"!) Just wanted to let you know... :) I'm sure I'll see her lots more, as I try to see most things my students are in, when my own grad work and coaching schedule allows.</p>
<p>And yes, M.R. is SUPER! She teaches my students, too - and they LOVE her. She is truly like a "mom" to so many of them - albeit a "mom" who still gives PHENOMENAL recitals as a performer herself and who develops many of Broadway's current mainstays and up-and-comers! In fact, I'll never forget (here it comes, another CoachC anecdote!) going to see SUMMER OF '42 when it played Off-Broadway several years ago. A newly-graduated Celia Keenan-Bolger was in the small cast (as some of you may know, the show was written by Hunter Foster, UM '92, and I believe one other UM alum) and her bio said, "This one's for M." (except she named that teacher fully) I thought that was so incredibly telling - for a successful young grad (who gets more successful by the day - YEAH TONY NOM, as the UM kids are fond of saying!) to thank a teacher in such a public way...And I know M.R. remains very close to Celia, Gavin Creel, and many other UM alums. This is true at all of the top school I have encountered - the faculty truly LOVES the kids! Another example of this kind of faculty support: when Megan Hilty, the 2004 CMU grad who is now Glinda in WICKED on B'way, went on for the first time as the Glinda cover back in December, it seemed as if "all of CMU" came out to support her!!! Afterward, they all celebrated with her at Joe Allen, and it was great to see the true support there. And I know each of the other top conservatories has numerous examples of their own.</p>
<p>Sorry, got a little off-topic : ) - but in the end, I hope it all helps to illuminate different parts of the audition/school selection process for the class of 2006!</p>
<p>Wow!! That is so cool!! I'm not sure how you know (knew) she is mine, but thanks for the compliment. Given the number of people you know there - and the fact that several of the kids know that I post here on CC - I guess it wasn't too hard to put 2 and 2 together. Actually one of the boys in the class ONLY calls me by my CC screen name........ But now, of course, I want to figure out which of the UM freshmen "belongs" to you!! </p>
<p>I also liked "Goin' Courtin'" (in addition to the obvious reason) as I loved watching all the boys work together. There are several VERY strong boys in the class. From what I can tell, UM seems to do very well in attracting strong MT boys and usually accepts more boys than girls. It is clear you have very strong connections to UM and follow their grads. I was told by my D that when Gavin Creel gave a solo show in New York earlier this year he told the audience that he "owes everything" to M.R. The UM alum track record in NYC has been phenomenal and I love how they are incredibly supportive of each other and of the undergraduate "newbies". Several of the freshmen spent time in NYC around the time of the Senior Showcase and got to meet and talk to Hunter Foster, Celia K-B, Gavin, Barrett Foa and others. A rising junior in the class is working for Jeff Marx this summer (co-writer of Avenue Q) and "studying" with Andrew Lippa (composer of one of "The Wild Party"'s.) And as you pointed out, this kind of comraderie is not unique to UM but is a terrific part of many successful MT programs.</p>
<p>I hope we can meet sometime in the future at UM! And thanks again.</p>
<p>I was wondering if anyone had any remedies or tricks they use for a hoarse voice. My d is opening as the lead Ariel Moore in Footloose on Friday night (with reviewers and all no less) and is saying her throat is sore and her voice sounds a bit hoarse. She never really dealt with anything like this before. She has done many shows, with long runs and is always as healthy as can be. I just went and got zicam and her doctor just called in zithromax for her, but besides the standard tea with honey...are there any other things you wonderful singers do to help?</p>
<p>It is labeled under the name Throat Coat, but you can find it in health food stores.</p>
<p>Tastes SOOOOOOO awful, but is soothing, and won't strip the throat.</p>
<p>Other than that, STOP SPEAKING, HUMMING, SINGING, LAUGHING, etc. Rest the voce as much as possible before opening...even if it means marking through your numbers vocally in rehearsal (if the director has the choice between that and no voice on opening, they will likely choose the vocal rest).</p>