Voice Issues / Sickness / Medical Advice

<p>Add me to the chorus of folks thankful for this thread and for CoachC's information about voice centers. My daughter was in studio this week, recording songs for the NFAA (voice), as well as for college pre-auditions and scholarship applications. When she came out of the studio, she was very demoralized about her singing and felt her efforts were mediocre for her. At the time, I thought maybe she was just being overly critical.</p>

<p>I picked up the interim CD tonight with all the takes of her songs, and I am just heartsick. The high end of her range is weaker than I've ever heard it. She chose songs that have been in her repertoire for awhile, so it's not as if she was trying to do something new that is beyond her usual range. I can't even fully describe what I was hearing...reedy rather than robust and full is the closest I can come. </p>

<p>We'll be able to use two of the tracks for her college CDs, but I'm not even sure at this point that she'll be submitting a CD to the NFAA; it just doesn't represent what she is capable of. </p>

<p>At any rate, rather than take any chances, I'm calling a voice center tomorrow to make her an appointment. It's downright scary to realize my daughter's range has diminished so drastically in a matter of weeks. Keeping my fingers crossed that this is something minor and readily fixable...</p>

<p>Mezzomom</p>

<p>P.S. to 5pants: We picked up a Vicks brand personal steam inhaler but don't use the menthol additives. This is not necessarily an endorsement, although my daughter does like it; we purchased it because in our (remote) neck of the woods, it was the only kind we could find!</p>

<p>thanks for the post mezzomom. Best wishes for your daughter...please keep us posted on her outcome.</p>

<p>Warmly,</p>

<p>SUE</p>

<p>Mezzomom - </p>

<p>Good call to make her an appointment ASAP. Tell them that her voice has changed fairly rapidly - they should hear that and want to see her promptly, to ensure that she doesn't have a vocal fold injury that she can exacerbate by singing more "on" it. On the other hand, her vocal folds may be just fine - I am now doing diagnostic exams on voice patients nearly every day and there are as many causes for vocal change as their are types of singers. Please keep me posted!!!</p>

<p>I apologize for not answering the steamer question sooner - I have been completely swamped with both voice therapy patients and coachees and am just catching up on CC. The Vicks personal steamer is a very nice model (about $35 at most drugstores) and the one I recommend to my students. But you are right, 5pants - NOOOOOOOOOOO methol!!!! It's a terribly drying agent!</p>

<p>Thanks all for your "thanks" - I am really passionate about protecting the health of young singers, so I love sharing what I know and see clinically.</p>

<p>Hi CoachC,</p>

<p>I asked this question in an earlier thread, but I think it got pushed out of the way so quickly to didn't get to see it. :) Anyway, I'm a voice actress in Seoul, Korea, and there is a LOT of work here. I'm really well-established in the industry, so I basically record 6-8 hours a day, six days a week. A lot of my work requires character voices, both singing and speaking. Sometimes I'll have a two-hour singing job where they want me to sound like a 7-year-old girl for every song. Or like a frog or a toaster or a grandmother or whatever. The point is, it's very stressful for my cords. I often can't get to the top of my range without strain. Can you recommend any methods or techniques I can employ to protect my voice in these situations? I am very careful about my breathing and keeping my throat relaxed as much as possible, but when you're singing in a goblin voice, that's pretty much impossible. Turning down this kind of work is not an option; I'd lose half my income. What do you recommend?</p>

<p>Samia</p>

<p>Followup on this thread and update -</p>

<p>To add to the chorus of voices thanking CoachC for the information about voice centers! My D just went through the allergy testing regime (after having that vocal strobe thing to make sure there was nothing functionally wrong - all checked out fine) and was found to have massive allergies to specific things. Not foods, thank goodness, but she is a botanist's nightmare. </p>

<p>We still have to followup because I don't know yet how to connect the botanical allergies with the problems she has in the winter (diminished range and tone), which always kick in right around audition time ...Dec to March...argh. You'd think that plants would not be a problem in the NE in winter!</p>

<p>I thought of this in reading of mezzomom's D's loss of high notes...that's what happens to my D too.</p>

<p>Hi chrism!</p>

<p>Your d's diminished range and tone is probably due to the swelling of musculature and tissue all around her vocal folds when her allergies kick in - any swelling in the larynx area affects the ability of your vocal folds to move efficiently - and yep, diminished range and tone are the results!!! How that can be managed depends on the severity and type of allergy - most allergy medication is really drying and actually makes vocal problems worse - but if you give your allergist a heads up about vocal concerns and he works in conjunction with your ENT, they should be able to find a voice-friendly solution.</p>

<p>Also, I wanted to clarify a bit of language used in your post, only b/c it's a really important distinction for those who are getting vocal exams - videostroboscopy (a "vocal scope" in layman's terms - actually, the scope is what takes the picture and strobing is the name of the procedure) shows structure and function, not just function. So what they saw with your D is that there is nothing structurally wrong (no nodules or other bad stuff on her vocal folds, which we refer to with the general term "pathology"), and also that there is CURRENTLY no functional difficulty. However, what you are describing is a functional impairment that happens during allergy season - so if she was to be restrobed them, you'd probably see swelling and squeezing of the laryngeal muscles in order to counter the swelling and produce tone - and that squeezing is what creates the loss of range. You can actually see the squeezing quite clearly during a videostrobe - many, many singers have no structural trouble but do have this squeezing, which is called muscle tension dysphonia (MTD). I say this because most singers think if they don't have nodules, they don't have a medical voice "problem" - but it is NOT true that nodules are the only anatomic or physiologic thing that impairs a voice!!! </p>

<p>Often, MTD exists because of poor breath support - but it also can exist because of the swelling that occurs with allergies or illness. But it is only when the squeezing becomes a persistent habit, as it often does after an illness - when someone has worked really hard to get any voice out (during bronchitis or strep, for example) and then those habits linger after they are well - that it is true MTD - so the loss of range your daughter experiences should be fairly easily managed, since it's so specific only to allergy season.</p>

<p>And that, my friends, is your clinical voice instruction for the day. :)</p>

<p>Samia - </p>

<p>I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you :) - I am fascinated by your story and definitely want to "talk" all about it - I just know it will take me more time to think through and then explain a response to your specific vocal issues than any of my other posts, since your issue is not something I deal with on a regular basis - but I have lots of general ideas - just want to devote proper time to it. I promise I will respond sometime this week - I am currently SWAMPED with patients, coachees, directing a show at my university - AND a broken wrist!!! But this week will actually be fairly light for me, so I can focus on you! Also, my UM students really want to meet and hang out with you when you audition there - I have a student who is also auditioning on Feb. 3rd, and one of my coaching team members is an amazing pianist/accompanist/vocal coach and a UM upperclass MT student who said he would love to run through your songs with you the night before you audition. And my younger students (freshmen and sophs) are eager to give you a tour and show you all around the school they love so much...so let me know if you're interested!</p>

<p>CoachC,</p>

<p>Thank you for your response...and the tremendous amount of information shared. Hope your wrist mends in a hurry. :)</p>

<p>SUE</p>

<p>CoachC, I'm PMing you! You are amazing!</p>

<p>I wanted to add an update, since you've all been so kind and forthcoming with help. I called a voice center associated with U-M (Michigan) and had a long conversation with the nurse who sets up appointments. It turns out they don't accept our insurance, but she suggested some alternative voice centers and was generally helpful and understanding. One of her suggestions was to take my daughter to her regular doctor first, just to rule out any obvious problems (strep throat or the like). </p>

<p>I was able to get my daughter in to our doctor that day, and lo and behold, she had a throat/sinus infection. Because she's on a variety of other meds for her rheumatoid arthritis (including take-as-needed pain meds), she wasn't really feeling any discomfort and was only aware there was a problem because of her loss of range.</p>

<p>And, it turns out that our family doctor is better-versed in vocal issues than I would have ever dreamed. His sister was an opera singer, and he originally set out to specialize in ENT because of her. He switched to a family practice years ago, but he actually had a good grasp of what she should/should not be doing. The appointment was the definition of serendipity!</p>

<p>It's now been two weeks since her treatment started, and my daughter is feeling much better (and realizing the difference between sick and healthy!) She's still on vocal rest, and we go back in two weeks to make sure she's infection-free. At that point, the doctor will decide on the next step, ranging from a clean bill of health to a referral to a specialist. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed, but it does appear that we may have less catastrophic news than I was envisioning. And my daughter has certainly learned a valuable lesson about listening to her body more closely and not assuming all discomfort/pain is the result of her RA.</p>

<p>Mezzo-and-highly-relieved-mom</p>

<p>mezzomom,</p>

<p>Thank you for the update! We will keep our fingers and our toes crossed for a healthy outcome for your dear D.</p>

<p>SUE aka 5pants</p>

<p>mezzomom,
So glad for all your good luck with this. And there are lessons to be learned by all in your story! thanks for sharing the update. </p>

<p>Chrism</p>

<p>To the wonderful and ever-willing-to-share CoachC!</p>

<p>We've come up against another voice issue with FLU shots. I wanted my daughter to get a flu shot because of the audition season - but today I am told the only thing she can get is called FLU MIST which is shot up the nose. Given her allergies and the fact that I know there is some stuff that singers must not take (like decongestants) - what is the effect if any of flu mist on the voice? Any idea? she is very cautious about shooting stuff into her nose!!!</p>

<p>(And yes, I did call her doctor and noone is available to answer this today)</p>

<p>Hi there! </p>

<p>Sorry it's taken me so long to reply - but I found some info on the CDC website that leads me believe you might not want her to get the flu shot:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm&lt;/a>
(It's at that the very bottom.)</p>

<p>However, I will also check with my clinical instructor on Tuesday when I see her and get back to you with what she says!</p>

<p>Please let us know what happens!</p>

<p>CoachC</p>

<p>Hey! </p>

<p>I'm applying for MT, but I'm a singer at heart. Music is my life- and if my voice went out on me, I wouldn't know what to do with my life.</p>

<p>I know how to take care of my voice. My voice teacher is a vocal therapist, not just a voice teacher (she has lots of Diplomas, and is very widely known in NY for people with vocal problems). I have never lost my voice, not once. </p>

<p>My friends and I, all music dorks, have lots of fun trying to classify my voice. Soprano with a good low voice, Alto with an outstanding high voice, Mezzo with an insanley large range... I get it all. It happens when you have a few notes over a four octave range, and are strong and trained from the lowest note to the higest. I sing Alto II in some choirs, and Soprano I in my All-State choir. Its pretty fun.</p>

<p>But the constant switching from low to high- Alto II in choir to Soprano Engenue roles in plays does a number on my vocal chords. It also takes a LOT of warming up. Are there any ways I could ease the strain? </p>

<p>My brother just caught a cold and got over it- and after dosing on Airborne I made it through without catching it before his went away. Which is absoultly fantastic, considering I have two auditions this weekend. </p>

<p>Thanks in advance!</p>

<p>Hi there!</p>

<p>If your voice teacher is also a certified SLP (Speech-Language Pathologist)who specializes in Voice Therapy, as it sounds like she is, then you should definitely be asking HER this question! :) She knows your voice well and she will know her vocal health stuff, too. "Switching" into various parts of your vocal range SHOULD NOT be ANY kind of strain on your voice, IF you are always supporting and NOT using muscular tension to move your voice. If you are having trouble, then you are likely "cheating" sometimes with your throat muscles, all the muscles surrounding your vocal folds, and not always using solid technique - which all comes down to CONTROLLED BREATHING!!! It's all about da breath, my singing friends, and the simultaneous relaxation of throat, face, and tongue muscles - NO excess tension!!! And just b/c you don't "feel" tension doesn't mean it's not hiiiiiiiding...So again, talk to your teacher! If she's in NYC and is who I think she is, she KNOWS her stuff - the woman of whom I am thinking IS an SLP and teaches at Broadway Theatre Project as well as privately in NYC...</p>

<p>Good luck - keep that voice HEALTHY!!! :)</p>

<p>CoachC</p>

<p>Hey letmesing how do you classify your voice on your resume? I have a similar advantage/problem with that. I had a stupid voice teacher for about 6 years who thought i was an alto and trained me as an alto. But then i went to another teacher and she told me that i am a coloratura soprano. So i can sing opera high and i can belt really well, but inbetween that i don't sound that great even though i can hit the notes. Any ideas on what i should write on my resume? Alto and saprano sounds weird to me.</p>

<p>I have severe allergies (for which I take a daily Claratin) and post-nasal drip, which affects my voice. The problem is, the post nasal drip is so constant that I don't actually know what my voice would sound like without it!
Anyway, if anyone knows a good "cure" to post-nasal drip, could you share? My doctor gave me Flonase a few months ago but it didnt seem to work and I haven't been back to her to try a different solution.
Thanks!
- Kirsten "Drippy" Sofie : )</p>

<p>Kirsten, get your sinuses checked, you may have a deviated septum and/or chronic sinusitis. DD has had bad allergies all her life, gets allergy shots, takes meds, etc. But she still had the post-nasal drip, which got worse year after year. Her allergist prescribed a nasal spray in addition to her oral meds and shots, and she still didn't improve. When he finally sent her for a CAT scan, we found out that she has a deviated septum which keeps the nasal spray from actually reaching her sinus cavities, plus really messed up sinuses which have become so infected that she's having surgery in two weeks to try to correct the problem. If your sinuses are still dripping despite taking Claritin and using Flonase, get them checked out.</p>

<p>I would list the notes that you sing in terms of top and bottom (using middle C, A440, high A, etc., as markers, and then let the auditors classify you as flexible. </p>

<p>But an important note: only list those notes that you sing in SONG ON LYRIC, not those that you can vocalize to (sometimes a wide margin of difference there).</p>

<p>eve</p>