<p>Gryffon,</p>
<p>Great answer!</p>
<p>At a MIT info session in my area a year ago, someone asked a question about lying on apps (!), and Marilee Jones (yes, I know, incredible, incredible irony) said, "if you lie on your application, God will strike down on you." I actually think it is a very valuable advice.</p>
<p>In short, as long as what you say isn't factually true (and /really/ ask yourself whether it is factually true or not, don't just put blinders around your eyes and fool yourself), then don't say it. Or, to reword it in a more practical sense, I would rather be honest than be worrying every second for every hour for every day of my life that my lies are going to get exposed.</p>
<p>Thanks for the enlightenment</p>
<p>so what if I put down I'm President of a club when I'm actually co-President? And the other president applies to the same schools? Should I e-mail my counselor or the college about that?</p>
<p>colleges usually do not check something unless it is really big (winner of national contest, president of 5 clubs), or if it conflicts with your teacher recs.
Shed yourself in the best light without lying. 23 hours of comm service rounds up to 25, not 30. Hours is really the only thing you can fudge with a little. Everything else, you can't really lie about. If you were vice-pres and you put down president, that is very very risky. If you get caught, you're definitley rejected and I'd imagine that college may even find out the other places you're going and tell other colleges about it.</p>
<p>colleges might not hav enough time or whatever to check up on you, but this one year at my school this girl got a huge scholarship by this business. when she was awarded the scholarship at the senior awards ceremony at the end of the year, the speaker introduced her, noting that she was president of spanish club, blah blah blah. turns out, there was no spanish club at the time, all the students were mad, teachers found out, and her scholarship got revoked. i think she barely graduated for that fatal mistake. just one thing on her resume...</p>
<p>
[quote]
colleges usually do not check something unless it is really big (winner of national contest, president of 5 clubs), or if it conflicts with your teacher recs.
Shed yourself in the best light without lying. 23 hours of comm service rounds up to 25, not 30. Hours is really the only thing you can fudge with a little. Everything else, you can't really lie about. If you were vice-pres and you put down president, that is very very risky. If you get caught, you're definitley rejected and I'd imagine that college may even find out the other places you're going and tell other colleges about it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>My question was what if you're president but there are 2 presidents and you didn't make a note of that? and the other one applies to the same school? Would they get suspicious, even though you technically told the truth?</p>
<p>i had 20 hours community service each week..but thats only because i was a volunteer at the boys and girls club. some people find that to be exaggerating,but when you think about it 5 hours a days just helping students with homework and helping out at the local church on weekends,its pretty believable.</p>
<p>I say not to lie, but I just want to say that Albert Einstein plagiarized and copied and look where he is. I you don't believe me, look on Google.</p>
<p>I just returned from a reception with the Admissions Director at UC Berkeley. He said that they often catch five different students from the same school all claiming that they were ASB President.</p>
<p>I know a few students from my school lying on their apps, putting down being members of two or three common clubs, like key club and anchor club. If they just put down that they were members of the clubs, can they get into trouble? Will the competitive schools they are applying to verify whether or not they truly were members of the clubs? I mean they're not putting down presidents or anything.</p>
<p>I'm asking because some of these students are applying to the same schools as me, and so I am too tempted to lie in the same manner they do, if only to balance things out, even out the unfair balance these guys are creating. I know it sounds crazy, and I'm sort of starting to chicken out, but how in heck are these fellow classmates of mine going to get caught when they only say they were members?</p>
<p>If they ask for proof, how will they have any? Unless they know the people in key club or whatever really well then I doubt somebody will help them out.</p>
<p>My problem is this. I've done some volunteer stuff so far but I don't have proof for ANY of it right now. If the colleges I'm applying to were to ask for it, I would have to frantically get in contact with people there and get proof.</p>
<p>If they feel the need to lie, even a little, chances are they were never good enough to get in in the first place.</p>
<p>The achievements that you can BS or fluff are not great achievements anyways. An extra hundred hours or 2-3 extra clubs won't help much at the top schools.</p>
<p>I agree with Gryffon--it's the interview that will get you. To put it clearly, the odds are that a lie won't help you: if it's a small lie, it won't make a difference, and if it's a big lie, you have a significant chance of getting caught (and it still probably won't make that big a difference). In the long run, having integrity will make you a better and happier person.</p>
<p>"know a few students from my school lying on their apps, putting down being members of two or three common clubs, like key club and anchor club. If they just put down that they were members of the clubs, can they get into trouble?"</p>
<p>Yes, they can get into trouble. I am an alum interviewer for Harvard, and have caught students saying they were members of clubs that I knew they weren't. It's amazing how small the world is. One student lied by claiming to be an active member of a community organization that my S was the president of, and that I volunteered with extensively. No, that student -- despite stellar stats -- did not get into Harvard.</p>
<p>As for how much one can lie or exaggerate: Colleges expect you to tell the truth.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, when people say they are members of clubs they aren't, the lie isn't likely to help them even if they don't get caught. Club memberships don't count for anything when it comes to college apps.</p>
<p>Most colleges don't calculate ECs into whether a student is admitted. At most, ECs may count for merit aid. For the colleges that do calculate ECs as part of admission (and these tend to be the most competitive colleges in the country), memberships don't count at all. What does count is what the student accomplished in the club in terms of leadership (and the leadership could have existed even if the student didn't have an office).</p>
<p>Adding hours to one's community service isn't likely to help. Top colleges care about one's CS accomplishments, not the hours racked up. One could do thousands of hours of "community service" while idly sitting in a nonprofit twiddling one's thumbs and watching the clock. That's not impressive. The lack of productivity will come out in one's interview when one can't describe specifics that one did, learned or accomplished.</p>
<p>Trust me: People like alumni interviewers are volunteers themselves, and know what it means to do community service and to lead organizations. Admissions officers for places like Ivies tend to be alum themselves of Ivies and similar schools, where the majority of students choose to do lots of volunteer work because that's the type of student such colleges admit. The majority of students also have been and are leaders in organizations. Because of their own experience, the adcoms can tell who's faking and who isn't. </p>
<p>Someone who spends only a relatively few hours doing community service, but accomplishes something like starts a new program, establishes a fundraiser, tutors a child -- that can be impressive. </p>
<p>Being SGA, NHS president doesn't even count for much as many students who apply to top colleges have such positions. What matters is what one has done in those positions, and organizing the prom isn't particularly impressive. What is impressive is doing something like organizing a citywide community service project, which is something one SGA president whom I know did, getting all high schools in the area involved in building a Habitat house.</p>
<p>It also is impressive to be Boys State or Girls State governor or the president of a national organization. Understandably, anyone who lies about such a thing risks getting caught as such positions are extremely easy to verify.</p>
<p>so being a band member for 4 years...</p>
<p>taking the class
+independent practice
+12 hours of rehearsals/games/contests a week</p>
<p>counts for nothing? or are you only talking about actual clubs?</p>
<p>For the colleges that count ECs, being a band member probably is not going to tip you in </p>
<p>Having lots of expertise in an instrument that the college is in need of (french horn, bassoon, tuba, etc.) could tip you in. </p>
<p>However, it's important to realize that the most selective colleges get lots of applications from students who made All State, so simply being a longtime band member or instrument player isn't going to make one stand out.</p>
<p>That doesn't mean that what you've done is worthless. Presumably, you've gotten skills and knowledge that will serve you well for a lifetime including possibly allowing you to be in a college musical group.</p>
<p>Northstarmom,</p>
<p>I'm so glad to see your post. I am a parent and my I see kids fluffling and outright making things up. There are a few kids at my sons school who are all of a sudden claiming to belong to a particular club that my son is vp of and this kids has never done anything on this club except attend the first meeting in 9th grade! They lie big time just to put it on college app. I am so disgusted with all the back stabbing and the lies. I really do hope that you are correct in what you said as far as the adcoms and interviewers knowing that these things happen. There is no shame. No ethics in college apps anylonger. It's become so cutthroat.</p>
<p>Northstarmom (as she usual does) has hit the nail on the head. That is why it is so disconcerting to see that so many applicants are willing to lie on their apps just to gain a perceived edge, most of the time mistakenly believing that it will make a difference. It is the willingness to lie that is the eye opener (the comment about "the ends justify the means").</p>
<p>The bottom line: just tell the truth; cast it in as best a light as you can, but be truthful.</p>