<p>my d was waitlisted (seems so were a lot of others) anyone know about how many they waitlist and how many they might take?</p>
<p>i was also waitlisted at swarthmore yesterday... as well as williams... (although i will not stay on the waitlist for either of them) -- i don't have any info on swarthmore, but the stats williams included in their letter should be comparable to those of swarthmore:</p>
<p>"Predicting the number of students who will take us up on our initial acceptances is not an exact science. If we do not meet our objective of a class of 538 from our first round of acceptances, we will be able to admit candidates from the waiting list. In the past nine years, we have admitted 9, 42, 0, 48, 7, 2, 41, 40, and 51 students respectively from the waiting list, which each year has numbered between 350 and 600 candidates."</p>
<p>So, since Swarthmore has a slightly smaller class, I would imagine that these numbers would be a little less for them. Sorry I couldn't help more.</p>
<p>Swarthmore has been ranging from 21 to 50 students accepted off the waitlist in the last five years.</p>
<p>These colleges are all intentionally under-enrolling their class and then topping up to the desired level off the waitlist.</p>
<p>Because their acceptances at the high end overlap so heavily with HYPSM, it is impossible for them to predict their RD round yield with enough precision to do it any other way. They were all especially cautious last year because they didn't know how the changes from ED to non-binding EA among the Ivy League schools might impact their yields.</p>
<p>rmom -
Link to Common Data Set
<a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/institutional_research/cds.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/institutional_research/cds.html</a></p>
<p>2004
Number of qualified Applicants Placed on Wait List..........NA
Number Accepting a Place on the Wait List...................NA
Number of wait-listed Students Admitted......................50
Total Class Size.............................................. ........366
13.6% of Class came from the wait list</p>
<p>2003
Number of qualified Applicants Placed on Wait List..........NA
Number Accepting a Place on the Wait List....................NA
Number of wait-listed Students Admitted.......................21
Total Class Size.............................................. ........368
5.7% of Class came from the wait list</p>
<p>2002
Number of qualified Applicants Placed on Wait List...........NA
Number Accepting a Place on the Wait List....................NA
Number of wait-listed Students Admitted.......................42
Total Class Size.............................................. ........371
11.3% of Class came from the wait list</p>
<p>2001
Number of qualified Applicants Placed on Wait List............NA
Number Accepting a Place on the Wait List......................NA
Number of wait-listed Students Admitted.........................20
Total Class Size.............................................. ........381
5.2% of Class came from the wait list</p>
<p>2000
Number of qualified Applicants Placed on Wait List.............NA
Number Accepting a Place on the Wait List......................NA
Number of wait-listed Students Admitted.........................51
Total Class Size.............................................. ........367
13.9% of Class came from the wait list</p>
<p>1999
Number of qualified Applicants Placed on Wait List............NA
Number Accepting a Place on the Wait List.....................NA
Number of wait-listed Students Admitted........................38
Total Class Size.............................................. ........378
10% of Class came from the wait list</p>
<p>It looks like Swarthmore makes extensive use of the waitlist to fill the classes!!
Good Luck</p>
<p>interesteddad I have two questions for you if you have the time. One is that I was wondering about your statement about the colleges accepting fewer students since they didn't know how the Ivies' change to EA would affect their yield. I've heard that before but I'm not clear how that would happen. </p>
<p>The other question is that my s was wait-listed at Swat (see my other thread about 'picking up the pieces...', sorry, it's a long one). If you have a chance to read about his situation and make a comment here about a way to turn things around we'd appreciate it. Swat would be his first choice out of the three wait-listed schools, no question. Is there any hope??
Thanks very much.
andi</p>
<p>On the waitlist: Look at the size of Swat's freshman class. They mail out 900 acceptances for 368 slots. If they misproject and get 400 deposits, they are in a world of trouble. So, they have to undershoot and top off from the waitlist. The Yale change made them nervous because they have a tremendous overlap in applicants with Yale. Before last year, Yale was binding ED, so anyone accepted was out of the market in April. By switching to non-binding EA, applying early to Yale was freebie, requiring absoluting no commitment. Not only were all those kids still in the market in April, there was no way to gauge how many were seriously committed to Yale. It had all of the schools nervous because it was unpredictable. Swat intentionally cut back on their acceptances. I haven't seen the numbers yet this year, but I know apps were up about 11%.</p>
<p>As for your situation, I'm really feeling for you and your son. I know that it has to be a nightmare. It was thinking about just such a scenario that had my daughter adding a slam-dunk safety to her list. I'm pretty sure it will all work out in the end for you guys. I do believe there is a legitimate shot at Swarthmore. I'll post my reply here instead of to the other thread.</p>
<p>Here ya go, Andi:</p>
<p>Andi:</p>
<p>If you really want a post-mortem that may be useful going forward, I see a very common mistake, a top-heavy list of schools. It's hard to gear up the research and effort needed for a ton of applications. The effort probably should have gone into the Swarthmore, Dartmouth, Brown, Williams level of selectivity rather than the Harvard, Yale, Stanford level. A related mistake was putting too much stock in SATs.</p>
<p>But, that's all water under the bridge. How 'bout some positive direction? I don't really know for sure how your son's weighted GPA stacks up in terms of class rank, but assuming it's in the top 5% from a Newton-North type high school, then, you've got the "stats" for a Swat admission. </p>
<p>So what went wrong? Somehow, there was a failure to communicate a real person, an understanding of what makes Swat tick, and a convincing rationale for why S would make a great Swattie. Swarthmore doesn't bite on cookie-cutter apps. The shame of it is that your son sounds like the kind of super-focused self-motivated kid Swat likes, so it had to be in the presentation.</p>
<p>For starters, I've got to say that an essay on Shastapovich would have to be an incredible piece of writing to not send an adcom, on his 529th bleary eyed application, screaming down McGill Walk to throw himself under the next passing SEPTA train. Put yourself in the adcom's shoes. Grand themes or high-fallutin' essays just aren't much fun to read one after another and they don't usually paint an easy picture to see. I'm an advocate of simple, non-pretentious, personal, action essays. Just a story.</p>
<p>Swarthmore is going to accept somewhere between 20 and 50 kids off the waiting list. Who? In part it depends on what they end up needing -- a piano player, a left-handed Unitarian, who knows? But, to an even greater degree, those slots will go to the kids who do the best job of convincing their adcom and Jim Bock that they are really, really excited about wanting to be Swatties. It's not a big faceless committee. It's a couple of guys in the admissions office, including Bock who is a Swattie himself, who will pick a few dozen more kids to top off the class. You want them to have Andi, Jr. in mind when they pick up the phone to call somebody and offer them a slot.</p>
<p>I would spend the next few days learning everything you possibly can about Swat. Good place to start is reading the Meaning of Swat essays at their admissions site. The FAQ on the admissions page with quotes from students is fantastic. Dig around the Music Department website. Read about the Mozart symphony recently performed by Orchestra 2001, an unfinished work completed by Swat alum PDQ Bach. Read the recent article about the master class with the string section by the Phila Orchestra's concert master. Do a web search on Eugene Lang I Have a Dream Foundation and find out who Swat's biggest benefactor is. He is Swarthmore personified. This is the kind of research that parents can help with. Why is it important? Because when a kid really knows something about a school, it's obvious. Adcoms, especially at distinctive small liberals arts colleges like that.</p>
<p>Then, I would have your S on the phone to his adcom letting them know how much he wants to attend, how crushed he was at the waitlist, etc. The key question, "what can I do to convince you that I'd make a great Swattie?" If it's more comfortable, start with a really personal appeal in a letter or e-mail accepting the waitlist and then follow it up with a call a couple of days later. This approach might be best, because it lets just enough time pass for your phone call to not be buried in with all the irate parents ripping Bock a new one that he'll be fielding on Monday and Tuesday. </p>
<p>Give 'em some imagery, maybe you were watching the Swat DVD again when the waitlist letter arrived...whatever works. The whole idea is to present a person instead of stats and ECs and awards. </p>
<p>Then, I would book a plane ticket to Phila (cheapo on Air Tran or US Air out of Logan) and go meet with your adcom AND Jim Bock. The only purpose of the meeting is to let them know that he flew down to visit the campus, that he's very interested, and to ask, "what can I do to show you how much I want to be a Swattie?" Could be ten minutes. </p>
<p>Don't talk about Shastapovich! Talk about the upcoming performance broadcast, talk about something that you think is cool about Swarthmore, an appreciation for the community, your hosts for an overnight, just about anything that shows some knowlegde of what makes Swarthmore tick. The thought of playing one of the Steinways in the Lang Music Center with the glass wall behind the stage overlooking the Crum Woods. Whatever jumps out at you as you guys do some research. The key points about Swarthmore are ALL in the student quotes on the admissions site. They lay it out for you.</p>
<p>Gotta get it on a personal level. Detachment, especially very intellectual detachment, is no good. It's OK to show warts. They don't want airbrushed perfection. They want excited, unpretentious, 18 year old kids. Why? Because it's a small, tight knit community and spending four years with pretentious kids is annoying! They know that each kid will have to hold up his end of the bargain in a bunch of seminars with 4, 8, or 12 people. They want kids that can do that intellectually and be fun to be around. I think the biggest mistake applicants make to a place like Swarthmore is puffed up applications that don't let them see a real person. My daughter didn't even send a resume. Everything she sent them fit in the spaces on the common app. If it didn't fit, she tossed it, figuring that French Honor Society really wasn't a make or break deal.</p>
<p>As a practical matter, I would also come up with a strategy to communicate serious interest to WashU. I believe they are more stat-driven than Swat is and the SAT scores will likely count for more. The waitlist there is more likely to be a "Tufts syndrome" deal, trying to fish out whether there is any real interest.</p>
<p>Thank you so much interesteddad. I'm glad I've been reading the Swat threads because I thought of you right away. Last night while walking the dog at 11 pm in the rain, we had a chat about what to do next. He's decided that he's not that keen on the Edinburgh route even though it sounds interesting because he would have to specialize too much and he's more interested in liberal arts. Swarthmore is absolutely his top pick from the wl schools. I had to laugh about your description of an adcom reading his essay about Shostakovich! The funny thing is that that essay 'is' my s! However, he is just as likely to spout off Monty Python or one of many hundreds of expressions he knows for the word butt. This latter aspect of his personality didn't come across on his app though. Also, he loves PDQ Bach. They must have liked something about him because they rej a couple of other kids from our school who were excellent students. He didn't have an interview when we went to visit which, in retrospect, was a big mistake. One of his teachers said on his report card that her class wouldn't be the same without him, and I know some of his other teachers have thought the same. So I do think he'd make a great contribution to a school that has as small classes as Swat does. And he does have top grades at a school comparable to the one you mentioned - think 15 minutes N on 128. I'll pass along your suggestions for researching the school in even more depth and trying to arrange an interview.
Thanks for all your practical suggestions, they've been helpful in giving structure to this uncertain business.
andi</p>
<p>Andi, Obviously you already have--and should have--great respect for IDad's suggestions, but I wanted to bolster that respect even further by saying that we followed his suggestions to the letter when my daughter was applying ED to Swarthmore and I've always given him a lot of credit for her acceptance there.</p>
<p>
[quote]
However, he is just as likely to spout off Monty Python or one of many hundreds of expressions he knows for the word butt. This latter aspect of his personality didn't come across on his app though.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Either of those could have made a good essay for Swat. The first is probably a little overused, but a satirical essay expressing desire to study comparative linguistics triggered by an "intellectual" fascination with synonyms for the word "butt" could be a very effective in answering "Why Swat?"</p>
<p>BTW, there's an essay by PDQ Bach in "The Meaning of Swarthmore" collection at the admissions site. He was one of their first music majors when the school started to throw off the Quaker restraint on song and dance.</p>
<p>Well if that would make a good essay, believe me, he'll be a master! We have a joke about getting thru a dinner without having one of them used. (Two s's in this house. Don't tell me there's not a gene for this) I'll refer him to the PDQ Bach essay; I'm sure he'll enjoy that. </p>
<p>serchingavalon I do indeed appreciate ID's advice but it's great to hear your story. It serves as another example of how helpful this forum is. Congrats to your d! </p>
<p>I'm starting to feel some energy coming back into my body after all the help here. Thanks!!!!!</p>
<p>andi, I don't have any words of advice - but good luck. It will work out for your son..</p>
<p>andi,</p>
<p>I have been reading your posts with such a pain in my heart. I know I have written about this in other posts, but I do want you to know that my D, who was waitlisted at Swat, H &P, and hated her three acceptances really wanted Swarthmore more than anything on earth. That particular waitlist was so horrible to her. She asked two very supportive faculty members, (including the Head of School) and her GC to write for her, sent some updated info, and wrote a poignant letter to admissions. I don't think, in retrospect, that she presented her real passion for the place very well in the original application, but she sure did while waitlisted. Well, about the end of the first week in May, the call came that she had been admitted. The other good news is that those four years were absolutely wonderful and the fit was really perfect.</p>
<p>There is hope out there. Good support and a passion to be at that particular school made it happen.</p>
<p>I wish you and your son the very best in the days and weeks to come!</p>
<p>Oh Momofthree thanks so much for such a heartening message!! I will pass it along to my son. I think that the shortcoming in my son's app, after reading your and other's posts may have been a lack of passion as well (and I'm sure a bunch of other things.) Maybe good can come of this!<br>
Thanks again.<br>
andi</p>
<p>Andi - Having read on the Parent's Forum that you were continuing your discussions, I followed over here:) Hope you don't mind. I think Interesteddad is saying in a very informed and articulate way exactly what I was trying to say in a generic way in the Parent's Forum. These are college admissions officers. They know teenagers. I think they can really tell the difference between an essay that a kid wrote from their heart and the other kind. It's not that passion is required - hey my son is a smart-a** who doesn't believe in passion. He is going to have to write a smart-a** essay when his time comes or get off the cool pose in the interim. I guess I'm saying admissions people seem to need an essay from the kid's personality. I'm sure essays from the brain are also important, but at the end of the day they want to know is this kid for real? They need to be able to see a real person before them as they make the decision. </p>
<p>Essays are one way to do that, recommendations another. </p>
<p>Recommendations from alumni are good, especially from an alumnus that has kept in touch, because the admissions people can triangulate and verify the information. What I mean is that a rec from someone they can picture - i.e. an alumnus of the type they understand - becomes again, more specific, more real. Hence also the better recs having anecdotes rather than summary statements and assessments.</p>
<p>My statistics professor in business school explained this to me a long time ago. There are studies that show, over and over again, even educated people believe trends confirmed by one piece of anecdotal evidence in their own experience more than they believe in trends confirmed by an overwhelming amount of evidence gathered from a huge data pool. Go figure.</p>
<p>I wish you absolutely the best of luck.</p>
<p>Alumother I am really understanding what you're saying about the essay and I regret to say that his essay probably accomplished exactly what you're saying it shouldn't have. I wish we could have it back!! Interesteddad said I could e-mail it to him to read, can I send it to you as well? I'd be curious to hear both your opinions.</p>
<p>I would be honored to read your son's essay.</p>
<p>I pm'd you my e-mail. Thanks.</p>
<p>Have responded.</p>
<p>Andi, not to rub your face in your son's situation, but for the benefit of this year's applicants - visiting and not interviewing was a big mistake.
Swat was DD's EDII choice. She does not interview well (a little strange, considering she has always dealt better with adults than with her peers), she was in tears when her Dad and I insisted she work out a way to do her Dartmouth alumni interview, and D was her first choice! She really hated those interviews. EXCEPT, Swat's.
Swarthmore's interview was the only one she truly enjoyed, I think it was that interview, more than anything else that made Swat her second choice, and a tough one at that. She actually interviewed with both the student interviewer and an admissions officer at the same time, it was in the early summer, and they were training/evaluation the student interviewers, getting them in shape for the fall. The trio came back out to us, still smiling and in deep discussion over whatever they had started talking about - I know having essentially a pro interviewer helped tremendously, and allowed her to express her true self.</p>
<p>IDad is spot on, this is a small place, which by its nature attracts bright, quirky, nerdy, can I say more loners, IDad (maybe not loners, people more satisfied in themselves and a smaller circle of friends), creative people who tend to be driven - there has to be some crafting of the class or they would have mass shootings during Jan freshman year! Your son may fit well, or he may not, but the kiss of death is not expressing who you are, and not expressing yourself outside scholarly pursuits.</p>