My son is deciding between Colgate and Wake Forest for his Early Decision choice this year. We have visits scheduled at both in a few weeks. He is an excellent student on the quiet side, but looking for college to be a place for him to socially blossom. Would love any and all opinions from students and parents with knowledge of either or both schools. Thanks!
Visiting during the summer wonât really give you what you are looking for, so I suggest that he start working on schedule another visit in the autumn for whichever he thinks he likes best (before ED deadlines obviously). Sitting in on a class, being around campus, is really useful for this. It is striking how fast many/most students know whether a place âclicksâ or not, but it is harder when school is not in session.
If he doesnât have a stand out âthis is my place / these are my peopleâ school, I strongly discourage him from applying ED. If the thinking is âheâll getting into a fancier name going EDâ- hand on heart, it is not worth landing in the wrong place to get a fancier name (and it happens every year).
The unknown variable here is your son, who is going to change a lot over the next 18 months, so trying to guess now what will suit him even next spring- never mind the following spring- is risky. True story: by spring of Junior year, collegekid1 had a carefully curated, GC & parent approved, college application list, including an ED school (had visited, spent the night & sat in on classes) . By October there was an entirely new list, with only one school (not the ED school!) carrying over.
Leaving room for growth and change beats a tiny differential in perceived prestige.
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Sorry that I canât help you with personal experience.
But when comparing these 2 schools, be aware that applications to Colgate have skyrocketed in the past 2 years. By way of comparison for the current application cycle:
Wake Forest - 17,900 applications for 1412 freshman seats
Colgate - 21,100 applications for 765 freshman seats
Estimated acceptance rate at Wake Forest this year is about 21% while at Colgate it is less than 12%. The admissions landscape at Colgate has changed dramatically vs 2 years ago when they had only 8800 applications. At that point the acceptance rates at both of these 2 schools was comparable, but today they are dramatically different.
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Wake Forest kids are mostly from rich white conservative families. If you are full pay or close, Wake is pretty easy to get into. Campus has a strong Greek life and networking/making friends is facilitated if you belong.
I have no idea about Colgate.
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I would try to visit both when school is in session. In the summer he will see the buildings but wonât be able to get a great sense of the student body, vibe on campus etc.
Colgate is a LAC while Wake is a mid-sized university. Locations are also different. Does he have a preference?
I recommend ED only if ALL of the following are true:
âThe applicant has one top choice college.
âThat college appears affordable.
âThe family has no need to compare financial offers among different colleges.
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Parent of a Wake Forest â21 grad. I can only speak to Sâ experience and our personal observation of his growth, type of kids he associated with, quality of students / education. outcomes, etc. We are upper middle class from FL. I own a business and we do well but not wealthy by any stretch. I would say weâre comfortable. We were full pay and that was not a âno brainerâ like it would be for some.
Certainly there are wealthy kids at Wake. But there are also plenty of middle class and lower income. I donât have data to break down. In Sâ fairly large friend group, we were about average. Some kids came from very wealthy families, while others received a significant amount of need based aide. From what we observed, most of the kids were pretty down to earth either way. Thatâs how our kid is so maybe he self selected a group of âsimilarsâ. There are a lot of private HS kids there if that matters.
Greek life is prevalent, however it is not a necessity to have a rich, full experience at Wake. S was not in Greek life (outside of his business fraternity which was a mix of everyone and a major social outlet for S). He also played Club Baseball (which also had a mix of Green and Non- Greek). More on that in a minute.
I would characterize S as a borderline introvert and he was definitely seeking a college environment to reset. If left unchecked, especially at 18, he would be perfectly happy just staying home and binging some show vs. going out all the time. He did go out but wasnât an initiator. Had a small but close group of friends in HS. His identity in HS was basically surrounded by sports, student government and being an excellent student. Came from a small public charter HS because we felt the regular public options were pretty lousy. He was his schoolâs Jefferson Scholarâs nominee if that paints the picture. I use that as a reference because that type of kid is pretty common at Wake Forest. His final choice was between Wake and W&M. He chose Wake because he felt it was right of center on the social scene. He liked W&M a lot but felt like it would keep him more like his then current self which he was looking to change. Pretty common cross admit schools BTW.
He received an excellent education (very LAC like). He was a Finance Major and Politics/ International Affairs Minor ( of which interest was developed via the LAC like core curriculum). He really like the politics classes - maybe more so than his major.
Politically I would say, from what we saw, it is pretty balanced. Many kids may come from a conservative home, but theyâre not necessarily conservative. The profs certainly fall in the typical college range of leaning left so they are exposed to a lot of that. Diversity and ESG have become major topics and the College is making major efforts to shine a light on past deficiencies in our culture. Almost to the point where I want to say, âGive it a rest alreadyâŠâ but thatâs a different conversation. The new President is female. The new Provost is Female. The new Dean of the B School is female. They all are quite accomplished and qualified so thatâs great to see and Iâm sure sets an example to all stakeholders of what can be. There are many resources and efforts spent on highlighting pro LGTQ+, pro diversity, and pro female messaging, so I think itâs not that different than any other college from that respect. Sometimes I think what gets confused with âconservativeâ is the gentile demeanor of a southern school. It is in the south. Itâs hard to not notice that when youâre in downtown Winston Salem. Very polite, friendly people. Interestingly enough itâs student body hales from all points but heavily and equally represented from the northeast and southeast / south. Almost like a bunch of people from Philly to Boston wanted a great liberal arts type education without the snow and cold.
Similar to most LACs, there is a heavy emphasis on the teacher / scholar model and residential focus. All kids live on campus for three yrs, including the Greek kids which secure wings within the dorms. All freshmen live in one area (south side of campus), typically move to around the quad for Soph / Junior years and then many move off to nearby apartments for senior yr. Between living on campus, the small classes, and lots of campus wide events (that actually get major support from the whole campus including staff), you get to know tons of kids. Because of the total UG population of 5k, itâs big enough to always meet new kids, yet small enough to see people you know whenever you want.
Greek life is interesting. S chose not to go down that path. There was a time when he felt he would as a chunk of his freshmen friend group (made through the dorms) thought theyâd do that so they could still go to frat parties and such. S actually rushed and was accepted in his first choice but most of his friends actually decided against rushing so he had a decision to make. You certainly can be friends with both groups however the pledge period is really busy and it would have meant spending very little time with his primary friends so he made the decision He decided to quit the frat process right away. Through his dorm, he bonded really well with several kids and that group has grown. They remained very close all four yrs and have visited each other in several cities throughout the US since graduation (including some RV trips out west). They typically didnât do much with the frats in terms of parties but they were very busy with their own events, business frat events (many), intramural sports, Club sports, etc. When we would visit (once per semester because we loved the area) we made a point of taking him and friends out to pizza or whatever. Freshmen yr it was a group of 5. Senior yr we hosted a dinner party at our airbnb for about 25 (had to scramble for chairs) of a great mix of guys and girls. Their female friends were a good mix of sorority and non-greek. I mention this because I would have thought the sorority girls would basically just hang out with the frats but S and many of his friends were invited to âdate nightsâ and formal all the time. So no need to âhave to be greekâ.
Iâll finish by saying this. All of his friends were/are very sharp. Some of them very outgoing. Some of them more reserved. All of them like hanging out together regardless of socioeconomic backgrounds. The common denominator I witnessed was everyone was very smart and quite accomplished in at least one or two things. Also I noticed a sense of everyone being pretty active especially in areas of interest / ECs. Very rigorous academically, yet they found the time to do lots of things outside the classroom. I havenât delved in to D1/ ACC sports. But if thatâs an interest the fan base is great and itâs very exciting. S is a major sports fan. If heâs not playing, heâs watching. Had a blast at football, basketball, soccer (big time!), baseball. Even went to a few tennis matches. Theyâre just very proud of their school with spirit evident everywhere. This is probably the biggest differentiator between Wake and the traditional LACs. Best of both world IMO but not for everyone of course.
Hope this helps.
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Breaking the ice can be a big help in developing new friendships. To their credit, both of these schools offer significant pre-orientation opportunities - anything from wilderness trips to intro activities to various clubs on campus. It might be helpful to check out the list of opportunities at each school to see if something is more likely to click.
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Wake Forest breakdown can be observed at College Navigator - Wake Forest University
- 33% receive financial aid grants or scholarships (i.e. 67% no grants or scholarships)
- 10% Pell grants (approximates bottom 40-50% household income)
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Thank you so much for your comprehensive and thoughtful review. We hail from similar backgrounds (we are in NJ) and I really am impressed by the positivity of your sonâs experience. Thank you very much for taking the time to extend understanding! Much appreciated!
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The NYT posted reasonably detailed data for colleges about 5 years ago. Wake and Colgate were pretty comparable from a socioeconomic standpoint at the time, though the admissions landscape has changed since, as @Bill_Marsh noted above.
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Median family income: $221,500 Wake, $270,200 Colgate
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Average income percentile: 83rd Wake, 84th Colgate
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Students from top 0.1%: 2.7% Wake, 2.9% Colgate
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Students from top 1%: 22% Wake, 23% Colgate
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Students from top 5%: 49% Wake, 58% Colgate
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Students from top 10%: 61% Wake, 66% Colgate
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Students from top 20%: 71% Wake, 77% Colgate
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Students from bottom 20%: 2.3% Wake, 2.5% Colgate
Iâll add that Wake is arguably the most LAC-like of the national universities (yes, even more so than Dartmouth). In fact, it has fewer large classes (50+ students) than many of the elite liberal arts colleges.
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Good info, @warblersrule .
And yes, the Colgate landscape has changed dramatically. A major reason that applications soared at Colgate 2 years ago was the announcement of the âColgate Commitmentâ, a program similar in its approach to financial aid to the âRice Commitmentâ.
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My gut says Wake would be a better fit for you but I donât know you!
Wake is a bit more conservative. Colgate, while rural, feels more in the orbit of NYC (even compared to other northern LACs.)
Climate is different, size is different. My guess is that heâd find his people at Wake, however he evolves. Colgate feels like it might be a bit tougher if the pieces arenât falling intonplace for him.
With that said, both are great schools, so itâs really about fit rather than âbetterâ.
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Double Deac parent here, 2021 DD (classmate of @rickle1 's son) and 2024 DS.
DD had a comparable situation to your son. She was a little introverted and had a regular decision choice between Smith College and Wake Forest. In the end she chose Wake because she wanted to get out of her comfort zone a little. I donât think Smith is analogous to Colgate, but Wake Forest really got her out of her shell.
Wake is a unicorn among colleges, an oversized LAC in many respects with ACC sports. I would suggest a visit and interview during a football weekend in the fall.
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I agree with this.
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