Wall Street Journal - Do Elite Colleges Lead to Higher Salaries?

For STEM fields, save your money; "“But for fields like science, technology, education and math, it largely doesn’t matter whether students go to a prestigious, expensive school or a low-priced one—expected earnings turn out the same. So, families may be wasting money by chasing an expensive diploma in those fields.”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/do-elite-colleges-lead-to-higher-salaries-only-for-some-professions-1454295674

This is by far what I have been saying to peers when I tell them about Alabama…STEM fields are going to be in demand no matter what region you are in so if you are the few who can get through it with decent grades the jobs and pay is there. I think a huge game changer in the college selection process and thus the student debt crisis is a national information tool. As carfax is to used cars, this national tool would tell you the average salaries by major and degree from that university, average debt to major, and average time of completion. It would also contain more information on private debt and parent loans to get a complete image of how much your degree is “affordable”. The tool released recently by the Obama administration is a good start and I commend the effort, but it falls short of settling the emotional responses of 17 and 18 yo’s who want “the best of the best” and will pay more than they need to of their parent’s money and their future salaries in debt. I was lucky to find UA when I did for the scholarships and I was about to pick the $40,000 debt “prestigious” school for chemE but I decided to breathe deeply and be happy knowing I will get a good education at UA with $0 debt. The college selection process will help tremendously if there is a more objective and complete information center for all colleges and degrees. At least that’s my perspective. End of rant :slight_smile:

My husband just emailed me this article! Very interesting, and pretty much confirms what we were thinking.

Working in the engineering field and having an MBA, I totally agree with the conclusions. I did not get my MBA from an elite university and have at times reflected on opportunities that may not have been open to me.

“But for fields like science, technology, education and math” (???)

The ‘E’ in STEM stands for engineering, not education!

But anyway, this makes sense because STEM majors tend to have lower average GPAs and curved letter grades, which makes it easier for top students to stand out regardless of their college’s prestige/selectivity.

Good catch! I glossed over that error!

@goldenbear2020 I don’t agree with your rationale for why college choices don’t matter much for STEM majors. Focusing on engineers, college engineering programs must be ABET accredited, which means classes cover pretty much the same material everywhere. Second, the Ivy-type colleges generally don’t exclusively have the top engineering programs. Five of the top-ten US News engineering programs are offered by public universities, and only one is an Ivy-league school, Cornell at number 9. Third, engineers hire engineers and are more focused on classes, grades, extra-curricular engineering experience, and work experience (internships and co-ops). Can he/she do the work? Can he/she work in a team? These are questions that hiring professionals look at. Finally, continuing the focus on experience, an applicant’s college reputation may help a bit to get the first job, but performance in that first job trumps everything when applying for a second job.

The top engineering programs will help more with getting internships and placing graduates, but jobs are there even for graduates from less prestigious schools. A friend of mine’s son graduated with good grades in ME from Northern Arizona University, hardly at the top of the engineering-school heap. He had to work harder to get interviews, but he ultimately landed a job with Boeing in Seattle.

And good catch on engineering vs. education!

@Beaudreau is 100% correct that it will be a little easier getting interviews/offers if you go to a top engineering school. It will not be by a lot though and, as Beaudreau said, that is only for the first job.

After the first job, it is all about what you learned and accomplished. Remember, engineers are all about performance and delivery! I am speaking from experience as having been on both sides of the desk.

Like I said before, the stresses of peer pressure and views from those around us fuel partly a “college lemon” crisis. If so and so isn’t going to the higher ranked college, the college they will end up with is a “lemon”: not as good, probably hiding something horrifying under the hood, and will lead to lost happiness. Although I say this jokingly, people try to justify spending '000’s more on college whether in cash or debt because they believe they get the sweet deal avoiding the lemon…in retrospect I often like to think that colleges don’t make the student. The student makes the student. If the student is already a top performer, then with some intuition and initiative they can make things work for the first job and life forward. The problem with college affordability is not only the cost but distinguishing value added to cost increase. 1) it’s hard to distinguish the two between colleges at times because not everyone values pure salary increases. However, college is still by definition a human capital investment that must have so and so return on investment to justify the cost. Not too many colleges can justify all the extra gizmos for the huge mark ups at comparable educations received. 2) Fear of disappointment and shorting opportunities fuel over-priced tuition mark ups for people willing to pay whatever it takes, even if the colleges aren’t outputing the actual worth of the degrees or quality of educations. It bewilders me for example the lengths people go to get into colleges like UC-Berkley and others with competitive major admissions AFTER they are admitted to the college. Those who fall short have to change majors or transfer…even when they are charging a fortune for the educations.

It’s all about information asymmetry. “I am 18 years old. I have worked hard 10 years in school to get the best possible future. I want the best education possible at $$$$ price. Hmmm…these high ranked colleges must be high ranked because they take the best and make them better. I will do whatever it takes…these other colleges have higher risks to them having something that may not work for me and thus isn’t worth looking into…”

My example of thinking is shallow but represent to some extent the thought process of those going for way overpriced private colleges vs. state schools. for-profit vs. state schools. and so on and so forth…

My point is that what can help as a starter in addressing college costs for the average middle class family is accountability. Clear the fog colleges make up with all those fancy mail invites and email fliers. Colleges are forefront one of the most important investments of a young person’s life. An investment that needs to be treated objectively as one. That’s why a tool detailing everything a college student needs to know about their major and potential college needs to be readily available AND accessable…for example CU Boulder has pretty good statistics on everything from debt stats to starting salaries/placement rate by field/college. However, the information is obscure and not easily available to the average student looking for that important $100,000 info to make it or break it. Something really needs to come up to make college searching more simplified to bare financial credentials that will show the colleges true value added/cost added to show which colleges are giving a bargain and which ones are ripping off. That will shutter the doors on the places exploiting so many people, especially in for-profits…still happy picking Alabama in the end vs. my overpriced state schools :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

In terms of co-oping and first job, it is usually pretty easy to see online which companies recruit on campus. Our oldest son went to a small public university that is only ranked regionally, not nationally. He had multiple co-op and job offers. He co-oped alongside top 20 engineering students. He works for a top global chemical company with grads from all types of schools…top 20 to regional schools like his. This corp recruits locale to its sites as well as across the country.