Want to be a professor.

Graduate School
1

<p>After reading many of these threads, I have discovered that it is very difficult to get a job at a 4 year university after obtaining a Phd. Are there any hard statistics to support this conclusion? What would I need to do to give myself the best shot at a teaching job in higher Ed? Also, are many Phds looking in academia for their career only to get shutdown? Where do these graduates who aren't hired for a teaching job end up? Sorry, the last one is a little vague, I'm sure it depends on one's specialty. </p>

<p>All help is appreciated. Thank you for your time.</p>

2

<p>Yes, there are statistics. You want to read the Chronicle of Higher Education (likely available at your school's library) - they run surveys all the time. Their discussion fora are always interesting:</p>

<p><a href="http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Also check out <a href="http://www.mla.org/documents%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mla.org/documents&lt;/a> - its specifically languages, but everything there holds true for all the humanities.</p>

<p>The reading I've done has some common threads (note the "duh" factor): </p>

<p>1) Get into the best program you can
2) Get the most influential advisor you can - academic "family ties" are important
3) Publish and present at conferences - every seminar paper should be written to be published
4) Teach as much as possible, ideally developing your own course(s)
5) Become as versatile as possible
6) Be service oriented without being a doormat
7) S. T. F. U. (as they say on the CHE fora)
8) Write a great diss.</p>

<p>That's my plan anyway. Professor X will probably drop by with some real life comments as well.</p>

3

<p>William, thanks again for your insight. You are very helpful. I would love to hear from more of you as well, thanks.</p>

4

<p>Graduates who don't obtain tenure track positions usually adjunct a lot. The upside is that it helps their CVs, the downside is that it's almost impossible to live off adjuncting.</p>

<p>As they say on the CHE forums, don't bet on getting a professorship. There's a 50% chance of not doing so. Now, that depends on the program - some programs have up to an 80% placement rate, some have 20-25%. You want to choose your program carefully. But it's best to go into a PhD with your eyes open. If there is anything else you could imagine yourself doing and being happy with, do that instead. Academia is a long, very difficult road, and it doesn't end with obtaining a PhD. The tenure track is brutal. If you are an AHA or MLA field, it will be particularly difficult to find a job.</p>

<p>Whatever you do, I would have an alternate plan - if you get partway through the PhD and realize this isn't what you want (not unusual - only 50% of PhD students finish), you will feel less crushed if you have other ideas. If you are unable to get decent work in academia, what else are you willing to do?</p>

<p>As far as getting a job in academia, you need to be willing to take any job, anywhere. Don't get your sights set on an R1 or top SLAC in New England (or anywhere, really). It's not likely. Ivy League grads go on to teach in places you've never heard of. Unless your willing to move anywhere in the country, this is not a good path.</p>

5

<p>There are jobs available in Academia, but as Deepseek pointed out, don't expect to be getting tenure at Harvard. I personally know a number of PhD's who work in community colleges, CEGEPs (2 year prep schools in Quebec) and even high schools. Although there is nothign wrong with teaching at an institution other than a four year university, alot of PhD's don't see this as a viable future considering all the work they have put into their education. if you pursue a PhD, I would advise you to be sure of the following things:</p>

<p>1) You love your field.
2) You don't want, or need, to be rich.</p>

6

<p>I'm actually going through this debate as well: my heart says go for the PhD in English but my brain says go to law school. I really, really love literary criticism and theory and would truly enjoy teaching, whereas law school seems suitable but.. well you know. I can honestly say that money really doesn't matter to me; but now when you say an aspiring professor should not want to be rich, one can still be at least comfortable.. right?</p>

7

<p>Comfortable depends...</p>

<p>Here 's the pay scale for academics at the UofC system:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.ucop.edu/acadadv/acadpers/tab0607/table1.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ucop.edu/acadadv/acadpers/tab0607/table1.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Asst. profs start at about 46K and full professors can work their way up to about 130K. That is also at the high end of what I've seen. Mid to upper 30's is probably closer to average for a new asst. prof.</p>

8

<p>WilliamC has, as usual, given you fantastic info.
And I love jmleadpipe's brief but accurate summation.</p>

<p>Here's my two cents.</p>

<p>Salaries vary widely given the following factors:
- field (ex: Business and Engineering PAY, Humanities does not. Vast salary gaps are found between departments.)
- urban v rural university (Cost of living - salary gaps much larger than you'd think)
- uni with great endowment and strong commitment to faculty salaries v struggling (often state, but sometimes private) uni
- prestige of one's department at each uni
- whether a dept. has a chair with "pull" among the administrators</p>

<p>And every salary offer has to be balanced with the benefits package, not just health care but available funding for conference travel, subventions, opportunities for research leave and course reductions, etc. In the hard sciences, one must tie in each uni's expectations for self-support (via grant-getting) and current lab support. </p>

<p>Odds of getting a TT job? Completely and utterly unpredictable. A subspecialization "hot" right now could dry up in two years. And stay dried up for a decade.</p>

<p>The only advice I have: Don't do it unless you have, in your heart, no other career choice that you could find fulfilling. Remember, academia is a lifetime commitment, and your passion for your research is THE ONLY THING that will sustain you when the inevitable occupational hazards are all aligned to eat you alive. </p>

<p>What hazards, you ask? Think: No real choice about where you will live. Perhaps for decades. Soulless administrators with bizarre whims that can affect your daily existence in countless ways. Students who believe education is a commodity to be purchased, and therefore they should be "given" grades for paying tuition. </p>

<p>Mind you, I would make no other choice for myself. :)</p>

9

<p>Of course, those pay scales are fantastic compared to the poverty of an adjunct professor. Adjuncting pays about $1500-$4000 per class (to give a rather complete range; average is in the middle). Try living comfortably on that!</p>

<p>I actually think jmleadpipe paints rather a rosier picture than reality, depending on the field. In humanities, be prepared for the 50% eventuality that you will NEVER get a tenure tract position (tenure track equals a permanent position). The percentages are getting worse as more PhDs graduate. I really wish I was exaggerating, as I'm in history myself :)</p>

<p>If I had to depend on this for my salary, I wouldn't do it, despite my passion for my research. My husband happens to be a doctor, a rather portable and well-paying career, so I am in better shape financially than most. if that was not the case? I'd get my MA and teach high school or maybe community college if it came about.</p>

<p>BTW, ProfX - I love "Soulless administrators with bizarre whims that can affect your daily existence in countless ways." Spoken as an academic with too many years experience!</p>

10

<p>Again, it really depends on what you want to do. If you get a PhD, many community colleges and junior colleges (I would imagine) will be interested in you. Will you make serious bank? Of course not. Will you be able to choose, to some extent, where you live and be able to get by as long as you aren't supporting a spouse and 9 children? Probably.</p>

<p>As far as I know, and I speak ONLY based on my fathers experience (he is an academic) you can get a PhD and have arewarding career as long as you are VERY aware of what you are getting into and adjust your expectations accordingly.</p>

11

<p>The competition for community colleges is as brutal as other schools in the humanities. The stories are rife on the CHE forums and elsewhere. Gone are the days when one could obtain a professorship at a community college with just an MA. It happens, but the competition is much greater these days. Estimates are several hundred applicants for each humanities position. exceptions are, of course, the adjunct pool, but surviving off of that is not easy (or sometimes even possible).</p>

12

<p>Wow this is good advice. Thank you all. I have some time to think about my future, I am only a sophomore, but I like to have my goals sorted out. This is a difficult decision, because of the lack of employment options I may face. I really enjoy economics and would love to go onto graduate school to continue studying it for the next few years. I think there is a safety net, where if I try to get into academia, but fail I will have back up options. What do you all think?</p>

13

<p>Econ has a lot of options in government. The training in quantitative analysis, particularly, is sought after by government and nonprofit agencies, as well as some businesses. Additionally, many secondary social studies teachers do not have experience in econ, nor do they want to teach it.</p>

<p>As you are only a sophomore, if you think you would ever have interest in teaching high school, you can still go through the teacher education program at your school and get certified before you graduate. Keep your certification current, and when you graduate from grad school your will have that option, as well as the previously mentioned paths in government. Econ is actually one of the more portable degrees. Good luck!</p>

14

<p>Econ is a very portable degree. I think that many of the recent discussions regarding PhD's have been directed more towards the humanities crowd, where the job market and placement is always much tougher than other academic areas. ALthough many PhD's in areas such as Economics or Political Science want to teach, many will take jobs in the private or public sector, sometimes in areas I was completely unaware existed. I recently saw a Political Science PhD who graduated from McMaster in Canada was head of the NCAA disciplinary board (or whatever the institution that keeps schools in line with the NCAA's many rules and regulations) at a major university in Michigan. Who would have thought?</p>

15

<p>Econ and Finance PhDs enjoy a much better job market than do most other disciplines. Some engineering disciplines also do well. However, this is in large part a result of the high barriers to entry. It's a tiny minority of people who are able to get into these programs, let alone complete them. The group who could choose these as a more lucrative options to their first choices is probably limited to math, statistics, physics, etc. </p>

<p>Left-handed relief pitchers enjoy a favorable job market, but it's not a realistic career option for most of us.</p>

16

<p><a href="http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/08/21/ranking%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/08/21/ranking&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

17

<p>
[quote]
After reading many of these threads, I have discovered that it is very difficult to get a job at a 4 year university after obtaining a Phd.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>As others here have pointed out, this is an extremely strong function of what discipline you're talking about. There are some fields (i.e. humanities) that I agree are rather difficult. But in other fields, like business academia (i.e. finance, accounting, operations management/research, marketing, strategy, to some extent organizational behavior, and so forth), almost any newly minted PhD can get a tenure-track job at some university. That's because if there is one field in academia that is truly growing like gangbusters, it's business schools. Not only that, but numerous business PhD students don't even intend to enter academia at all, but instead are looking to head off to strategy consulting, investment banking, hedge funds, venture capital, and so forth - which obviously lowers the competition for academic positions. </p>

<p>To be sure, it is very difficult to get a tenure-track offer at the very best B-schools (i.e. HBS, Stanford, Wharton, Kellogg, etc.). But if you're satisfied with just working at some lower-ranked business school, you can almost certainly get something. It may be a 4th tier school, it may not even be in this country (i.e. a lot of the growth of business schools is happening in Europe and Asia), and you may end up teaching business subjects that are not aligned with what you studied (i.e. I've seen org behavior people end up teaching strategy), but you can still get something.</p>

<p>But this also points to a possible optimization. Instead of getting a PhD in a pure academic discipline, you may consider adjusting your PhD plans to be more business-oriented. For example, instead of getting a PhD in psychology or sociology, get a PhD in organizational behavior, which is almost the same thing but is more geared towards business. Instead of getting a PhD in mathematics, get one in operations research, which is not that different. Instead of getting a PhD in political science, get a PhD in policy. That's a way in which you can hedge your bets and be more "business-ish".</p>

18

<p>Sakky,</p>

<p>Have you heard of econophysics? The application of physics methods to economic problems? Do you think the relative ease of getting an academia position extends to them as well?</p>

19

<p>Sakky is absolutely right. Go to a reasonable school for a PhD in business discipline and you are (almost)guaranteed a tenure track job (some exceptions of course but there hasn't been a shortage of spots in any of the b. disciplines in the past 20 years). I know from where I speak.</p>

<p>Take the GMAT and see your score, it will give you an idea of whether you can get into a good bschool for a PhD and what tier you will be at (above 90th percentile and you are probably okay). Unlike a lot of disciplines, there are real jobs in bschools (continued growth and retirements from the 60s boom still happening for awhile now).</p>

20

<p>This study [url=<a href="http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/08/21/ranking%5DJobs"&gt;http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/08/21/ranking]Jobs&lt;/a>, News and Views for All of Higher Education - Inside Higher Ed :: A Ranking That Would Matter<a href="link%20presented%20in%20#16">/url</a> has been heavily criticized because it ranks based on placement of grad students in depts with PhD programs. </p>

<p>Thus if new PhDs get jobs at strong LACs, their grad institution is ranked lower than if they got jobs at a place with a weak PhD program. That is absurd. Many grad students prefer to work in places other than research universities which are concerned with lots and lots of publication, often in relatively narrow fields, and which are not concerned with mentoring and educating undergraduates. A ranking scheme should not mark down their PhD program for making that choice.</p>